Bioponics

[JeffW]

If this weather here ever stables out..I can't wait to get it outside with full sun.

[wpbullock]

Very interesting topic, BadFlash.

I may be even more crazy than you because I have been thinking about picking up roadkill and putting it in a rotatable cylindrical tumbler up over my actual pond in my back yard (1/3 acre) and letting the flies lay eggs on it and when it gets tumbled every so often, the maggots will fall into the pond and be eaten by the fish.

I also have read a lot of the posts in this thread and will read the rest tomorrow but I have to ask if sometimes it doesn't make more sense to plant in dirt? The fish and the nitrates removal makes a lot of sense to me (aquaponics) but the idea of the worms would seem to make more sense to me if you raised the worms for fish food or for sale, and used the worm castings as fertilizer on conventional dirt beds. After all, I don't see the same compelling need to remove any nitrate-like contaminant from the worm farm. Plant waste from the kitchen and from the garden could then be used for worm food.

Love the thought process, though!

Have you ever done any reading about this sort of closed farm culture on the Heifer Project website? They talk about having a milking cow and generating cooking gas with the manure. Putting goats in a pen above the tilapia pond and the 80%-undigested goat poop drops into the pond for the tilapia to eat. Worms are grown to eat excess manure and fed to the fish or chickens. The goats are fed that huge grass called elephant grass and what they don't digest (I guess ruminants don't actually digest a lot of what they eat) drops in for the fish. The pond is drained and dredged out periodically and that is spread on the garden to improve the soil. Reading this article is what got me going on the fish tank in the green house idea. I never really thought about the aquaponics aspect until I talked to Jack.

I look forward to hearing the ongoing saga of your project.

Wes

[JeffW]

certainly nothing wrong with growing in good old soil, I am a big fan of gardens myself. Nice thing about aquaponics is the use of water is low and less waste, pretty much self contained. If your garden needs water and your in a city like me you really pay for it then you pay again for each gallon you get charged you also get charged again as sewage. Now I use a 150 gallon tank and capture rain water off the roof for the garden and besides the city water (though they say it is clean) has many of the same chemical disruptors that are causing problems in Potomac river. We are really backing our health into a corner.

At many of these places, it has been associated with known or suspected
endocrine disrupting compounds in waste water effluent, which are not removed
during standard sewage treatment, and in runoff from farming operations.
These compounds can include estrogen from birth control pills and hormone
replacements, pesticides and fertilizers used on crops, and hormones from livestock operations.

SOURCE:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 115302.htm

What ever plants absorb from soil becomes a part of our bodies and this is another reason I like the idea of being able to be "off the grid". Besides if HR875 passes the garden might be illegal and we will have to hide when we grow our own food. How to hide my garden will be a chore but looks like I might have to "disquise" it so you can not see it from the road.

[badflash]

Nothing crazy abouyt exploring possibilities. What is crazy is doing the same failed experiment over & over because it seems like "the right thing to do".

Black soldier flies seem like the ultimate in converting bio waste to liquid fertilizer. Red worms come in 2nd, but do not need as much heat. This fishless cycle has a ot of potential.

[wpbullock]

Interesting point about the water usage and the water source. I wonder if small beds of dirt, similar in size to a small bed of gravel will actually lose any more water to evaporation than a bed of gravel soaked in water and a system that relies on water to make the tea? In a dirt bed, if only enough water is being used to supply the plants needs and no more, meaning that there wouldn't be any left to soak down into the ground below the roots and be lost, and if the environment where the plants are growing is controlled (such as in a greenhouse) then the evaporative losses would be similar it seems to me between hydroponics and growing in dirt where water wasn't allowed to escape down below the roots (soak into the earth).

Like I said, I like the idea of closing the loop and using worms or soldier flies, just wondering why the extra effort pays off to extract the nutrients from the soil making a tea and then a pump and gravel beds, etc, when it might be easier to just take the worm castings and put them on beds that are made of, say, sand, and do the process that way?

Not trying to be a party pooper here. I look forward to hearing about how things go.

Wes

[JeffW]

Wes your right on and worms are making a come back, at least to those willing to think about it for more than a few seconds. I am so proud of my garden soil now after years of clay it is now full of worms and has a good balance of organic matter too. About 2 years ago I collect used coffee grounds from a coffee shop every other day (two 5 gallon pails full). Supplied the coffee chop with 2 clean pails each time I returned...people sipping coffee there thought I was strange I am sure but what I did was bring those 2 pails home and dump the coffee grounds into the garden which was about 15x20 maybe? Anyway now I realize the worms loved this and now I am amazed at how many worm I see in the soil.

As for use of water I think anyway we can conserve and use sources smarter is a good thing as you mention the small garden beds and what not. Those containers gardens are a big hit now I see. Today my new metal roof arrived for my 40x30 pole barn and I am so excited to say I will be catching enough rain water to last me all summer and then some.!

Here is a thought, and many people do not think about it or are aware of the fact that a good compost will retain moisture very very well and that means less watering. This is a good compost I am talking about too nothing like the cow manure sold in bags at walmart that is not compost. That is simply a mix not even close to what I am referring to, that is why they can sell it so cheap because it has about a 90% blend of other "stuff". Our sheep compost is 100% and it can sit in the sun at 90/F all day but you move 2 inches of the top and it's damp below.

Either way we live the future is changing and we that are aware of self preservation will be better off. Much like planning a trip, what will we need for the journey.

[badflash]

Keeping the worm colony reproducing requires a good dousing of water each week as the eggs don't hatch otherwise. This means you end up with worm tea as a by product. Don't want to waste that liquid brown gold, so the aquaponics route is a great option.

[JeffW]

I ran some rain water through BIN 1 today and noticed eggs all over the place inside the bin.

This is amazing, I am liking the results of the tea big time! Compared to last years efforts this vermitea right now is performing way better than what I tried last year.

I did have 1 strange death of a red worm...look at this below, really strange
[attachment=1:3ne79yao]Picture2 098.jpg[/attachment:3ne79yao]
[attachment=2:3ne79yao]Picture2 093.jpg[/attachment:3ne79yao]
[attachment=0:3ne79yao]Picture2 095.jpg[/attachment:3ne79yao]

[JeffW]

this is same worm..egg sits on it and this might be the head too
[attachment=0:3o6z68mz]Picture2 096.jpg[/attachment:3o6z68mz]

[badflash]

Worms die. Don't get caught up in the exception. If the population is good, no worries. You should get to a point shortly where you MUST harvest worms or they are over populated. After thatpoint they stop laying eggs. No future there.