System Stuck....need to know why?

[foodchain]

YEAH!!!!

I have figured out the problem. Now I don't have a solution. BUT I know what the problem is.

The loop siphon works GREAT, if you go out the bottom of the GB, and not out the side. Going out the side is guaranteed failure. Look over the last few pages....this is something I know a little bit about.

So....what do I do now?

[JCO]

Your drain pipe should always be big enough to be able to empty the grow bed at least 1 1/2 to 2 times faster than what your input in volume coming in can fill it. Going smaller is going in the wrong direction. In all actuality, you can't make your drain pipe too big because it's all in accordance to how quickly you want to empty the grow bed. Make sure the open end of the "U" siphon is about 1/2 inch from the bottom and absolutely level and parallel to the bottom of the grow bed. In the case of a rounded bottom grow bed, you will have to adjust accordingly because that's what caused the suction to break. I hope this helps. Sit down, kick back and pop a cool one for me.

[foodchain]

I have had a major break through tonight. I will tweak it a little come Sunday and see if lightening can strike twice.

And just in time, I have to put this project down now till Sunday, and then can only work on it briefly Sunday as new job Monday.

I will get pics once I have worked this out.
The problem was not the loop siphon, the N, or the M, the flow, or fall or anything else. It was simply that I was draining through the bung hole, and not through the bottom of the barrel. This prevents there from being enough head pressure to engage and disengage.

No clear pics/tutorials/advice via google on how to make a siphon work from the hole in the half barrel. And running through the bottom is not an option.
So I built a siphon of my own design, and it worked on the very last cycle tonight. Let's pray it's not a one time deal.

[jvision]

Did you get a chance to work on it, yesterday? How'd it work out?

[foodchain]

I have one pipe/barrel combination working. My time to work on this is extremely limited now, that's why I was begging for input early on. I had a limited amount of time to resolve the issues.
I DID fix one barrel. I will repeat the design on the other 5.

[jvision]

Good luck!

[Oliver]

I've been offline for a while so I am just now looking at this thread.

I quickly read through the post so I may have missed something.

From your pictures it appears you are using loop siphons, which is all we now use here.

The problem with the siphons not working properly appears, from the pictures, to be that you do not have the bottom of the outside siphon drain set to a low enough level. The bottom of the siphon drain pipes need to be at least 6 inches below the expected siphon break point. This will allow enough gravity down pull on the water having to go up and over the top of the loop (or bell stand pipe) to allow for continued draining until the siphon breaks. Too short of a down pipe, be it loop or bell siphon, will cause the problem you are experiencing.

Your fill times should always be longer than your drain times by 10% or more, but not 3:1 or 1:3.

The way to test your expected full cycle time is to flood your grow bed until it starts to siphon, shut off the incoming water and time the siphon drain until it breaks. This is the unencumbered drain time or UDT. Multiply the UDT by 4 and that will be the minimum possible full cycle time. Actual full cycle full time will be slightly longer than 4 times the UDT with flood and drain times each being about twice the UDT. Again, flood times will be slightly longer than twice the UDT and drain times being slightly less twice the UDT.

Oliver

[SimonB]

Hi,
I don't hang here as much as i used to since i have no place in my current apartment for a system but it is nice to check in every now and then and see what is happening!
I have a quickfix for you that is easily checked!
Ditch the internal system, keep the horizontal line in the bottom (need to drill a few holes in it to make it work as a drain) then install the bends as shown with the red line in the pic below. this way you will have an upside down U that will empty your system when the level in the bed exceeds the level in the bend.
I have the same design on my system, only with clear hose instead of PVC pipe and it works without problem.
br,
simon

[Apollo]

Was just wondering if you ever got it working...it looks like your using the "Pipe Siphon". At the tail end of you drain pipe you have a 90 angle going straight down into your return pipe to your sump or fish tank. If your siphon "Fires" but doesn't reset after the GB has drained, this is where mine is different from your set-up. I'm not tiring to drain into a pipe but straight to my fish tank. I think that your last 90 needs to be turned up just about 50 degrees from pointing straight down.

Maybe you could use a rain gutter as a return pipe back to your sump or fish tank.