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  1. #11
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    Thank you JCO, do have any pics of your system on here? Sounds interesting although I would need a backhoe to dig where I'm at, hard clay (gooey when wet) and rock. I've dug several holes for posts with a post hole digger and if I get lucky I can dig down 3' in an hour, if unlucky a whole day it seems. I can always rent a backhoe so thats not a huge problem. So all your GB's are raft? What advantages do you see in your system vs others?

    I'm all ears, thanks.
    Certain things catch your eye, But pursue only those that capture your heart.
    ~ An old indian saying

  2. #12
    Moderator stucco's Avatar
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    Quote Originally Posted by Onthefly
    I've dug several holes for posts with a post hole digger and if I get lucky I can dig down 3' in an hour, if unlucky a whole day it seems.



    My ground is pretty soft here but every now and then I hit some hard pack clay. I found that a pressure washer with a rotating tip works well for the post holes.
    Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.-- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
    Simplicity of character is the natural result of profound thought~fortune cookie

  3. #13
    Moderator JCO's Avatar
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    Sorry, no pics at this time and yes, my GBs are raft systems...
    JCO
    Irish eyes are always smiling but
    • "In the eyes of the world, you are only as good as your last success"
    so never forget
    • "MAN IS ONLY LIMITED BY HIS IMAGINATION"

  4. #14
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    Hmm interesting Stucco, will give that some thought. May work well until we hit rock anyway.

    Thanks
    Certain things catch your eye, But pursue only those that capture your heart.
    ~ An old indian saying

  5. #15
    Aquaponics 101 Oliver's Avatar
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    Quote Originally Posted by Onthefly
    @Oliver or?
    You are using a low profile FT to reduce head, how many gallons is your FT('s), what is the foot print? I am still in planning stages and leaning towards an IBC for cost reasons and also for getting more gallons thus more fish. I can however partially bury to get to a desired height, or should I bite the bullet and purchase a tank designed for this? From what I've read a 275 Gallon system should be the minimum to reduce chemistry fluctuations.

    I'm leaning towards drain and fill but not at all against constant flow, would I be correct in stating that the constant flow method will use more energy? Also, you are not using a sump tank to catch solids but are using the additional flow your pump is capable of to clean out the solids in plumbing, correct? I'm assuming you do this after a harvest and with an empty bed, correct? I know most pumps do require some back pressure but can you create enough on the pump w/out damaging pump or are you diverting some back to FT?

    I want a big enough system to start for reasons stated above but I would think if one was planning on having a larger system you would not want several smaller systems thus creating more of a plumbing nightmare. I really would like to have 1k or 1.5k total FT gallons but would this be wise for a beginner?

    Yours or anyone's thoughts please, thanks.
    I'm back.

    As stated in AP101, I'm using a low profile fish tank so I can keep the grow beds low enough to reach across without having to have a step up.

    My fish tanks are 4 foot diameter, 2 foot high 120 gallon stock tanks.

    I challenge the idea that an aquaponics system has to be a minimum number of gallons for biological stability. It has more to do with the fish to water ratios, regardless of the size. This assumes a constant system temperature.

    The system's temperature stability is another matter. It has to do with the volume of water to the surface area of the container (fish tank) plus the surface area of the top of the water in the fish tank. Add to that the surface area of the grow beds (all 6 sides) and the water contained therein. Then consider the amount of insulation, if any, surrounding these components as well as the varying air temperature where your system is located and you have the thermal stability.

    The temperature stability affects the biological stability, however. So, the larger system may have a better overall stability due to the larger thermal mass to surface area ratio.

    The extra pump capacity is used to rapidly move the fish tank water through the plumbing to the grow beds in order to clean out the plumbing. This is necessary as the normal flow from the fish tank to the grow beds is very slow and the fish waste solids tend to accumulate in the plumbing. This is accomplished by fully opening the control valve in the line to the grow bed and allowing the full force of the pump to rapidly move the water through the line for a period of about 30 seconds, at least once a week. The water coming out during that time will be very brown. When it clears, then reduce the flow to the proper amount for your flood and drain cycle timing.

    The above procedure has nothing to do with harvest. Depending on the amount of accumulated roots in the grow bed, they can be cleaned out after a complete grow bed harvest. Quite often, however, the grow bed is planted in sections and is usually in different states of growth. This is more the case with a larger grow bed.

    Another reason for using an in-fishtank pump is that the solid fish waste gets macerated as it passes through it. In this process the surface area of the waste is increased. This allows for more heterotrophic bacteria interaction, thereby reducing the amount of time it takes for the solid waste to be mineralized.

    A good quality pump, such as a mag drive one, should be able run continuously with the output completely shut off without it being damaged. The energy used is the product of pressure times flow, plus some inefficiencies. I have yet to test this assumption, so when I do make these tests I may have more to say about this statement. I plan on measuring the electrical power used by the pump while varying the back pressure by adjusting a valve on the pump's output.

    The flood and drain method I wrote about uses a constant flow of fish tank water coming into the grow beds, the pump's energy use does not change if they are flood and drain or continuously flooded. We can change between the two methods by breaking the seal on the rubber cap we use on top of the syphon shroud.

    The macerated fish solids go to the grow bed/bio-filters where they break down over time. With deep grow beds (12 inches) they break down before they reach the bottom and begin to accumulate.

    The purpose of a sump tank is not to accumulate fish waste solids, but to collect the water returning from the grow beds to eventually to be returned to the fish tank. A sump is only necessary if the grow bed bottoms are lower than the top of the fish tank.

    I would suggest getting some experience on a smaller system so when you kill some of your fish due to inexperience, they will be fewer in number.

    Oliver

    "To measure is to know"
    To measure is to know

  6. #16
    Moderator davidstcldfl's Avatar
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    Hi Oliver ...
    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - President Ronald Reagan

  7. #17
    Aquaponics 101 Oliver's Avatar
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    I have just added the following paragraph to the original post above. It follows the paragraph on using a tall fish tank and allowing the water to overflow into the grow beds.

    "The problem I have with this fish tank overflow design is that, even though the overflow water is gathered from the bottom of the fish tank, it is not run through a pump prior to entering the grow beds. This allows the fish waste solids to go directly into the grow beds in their sheathed form. The solids I have witnessed and watched on my fish cam are wrapped in a clear sheath, which appears to be the slim component of the worm like solid. By sending the solids through a submersible pump they get macerated, thereby breaking them into smaller components, which allows for the heterotrophic bacteria to do a faster job of mineralization. To leave them in the sheathed form may allow them to accumulate in the grow beds."

    Oliver
    To measure is to know

  8. #18
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    More advice needed.
    I'm in the planning stage. I'm thinking a 150 gal stock tank for the fish , 2 each 50 gal stock tanks for the grow tank. I'm reading all the problems newbies are having with the bell sipon, and it looks to me like the loop syphen would be the sure fired way to go. What as I missing? Also, I could use advice on the type and amount of fish to use. I know, me not knowing what I am doing, I will need to have fish that can stand big swings in water temp, as my blue prints in my head have not addressed how to control the water temp. I know the best way to controll tempature swings would be to use a larger FT. I could go to a 200 gal and maybe put in a float grow pad in the top. I have no idea of amount and size of fish I need to provide the nitrates for 2 grow tanks that are 50 gals each and 12 in deep. I have read that it will take awhile before I can plants the blooming plants (tomato and pepper), but that is what this passive green house project is all about. TOMATOES AND PEPERS IN THE WINTER, yehi.....John
    Don't blame me, I voted for Sara

  9. #19
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    a "basic" rule of thumb is 25lbs grown out size (not starting size) fish to 100gallons of filtration.. so you've got 100gallons of gb, 25 fish that you expect to grow to about 1lb would be right at the edge
    what kind of fish do you plan on using?
    with that name i'd have to say you are probably in ky? look for a local species like bluegill/perch/catfish, unless you plan on heating the water for tilapia, not sure about ky's laws and tilapia though

  10. #20
    Aquaponics 101 Oliver's Avatar
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    Re: Aquaponics 101 Part Three: System Design, Continue

    kyrocketscientist

    I see that you are posting this under one of the AP 101 segments. I suggest that you read all of the segments, for I believe that most of the questions you are asking are answered in the articles.

    It would be helpful if you would go to your profile and update your location. This would give us an idea about what kind of temperature swing you are having and, perhaps, the kinds of fish you can raise in your area.

    Also, due to your temperature swing problems, it would also be helpful to know what kind of climate protection you have or plan on having for your system.

    As suggested in AP 101, it is not a good idea to grow flowering plants in your grow beds until your system is mature and you have a high fish density.

    Oliver
    To measure is to know

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