Grey water to reed bed to AP

[rfeiller]

sorry for the add but, there are areas were, you have probably seen these working waste water treatment plants that are totally biological with usuing multiple ponds as you mentioned the final ponds contain tilapia to eat the vegetation. and then sent to market, where people ingest them and take in the toxins from the fishes fatty tissues (which is where the animal kingdom stores toxins that it can not process) from the fishes sole diet of vegetation that fed off of sewage containing toxic chems and heavy metals.

that is my concern with closed system aquaponics where water containing trace elements that are at a safe level become concentrated because of evaporation replaced water and are taken up by the plants and obsorbed by the fish. anyone check their fish for what's in their tissues. every photo i've seen on this forum show fish living in water that resembles a sewer, yellow, brownish, cloudy.

[dennis]

humm, well i have been trying to NOT get very technical here, in hope those with intrest will do the research, doesnt seem the place to go into a lot of detail so i will keep it simple, anyone seeking clean water, take a look at slow sand filters and activated charcoal, no neither is the perfect answer but i trust inmankind and think most here if they choose learn about water will do the research, i prefeer to keep it simple and not try to scare people with " my knowledge" both slow sand and charcoal activated or not have a use, i did not say to use it, just opened the door to look at a couple of things in use
here is a bit from natures sunshine product

An astonished gathering of the French Academy of Medicine watched as a pharmacist named Touery downed one grain of strychnine (10 times the lethal dose) without any noticeable ill effect! A few years earlier in 1813, another Frenchman swallowed a whole teaspoonful of arsenic trioxide, about 150 times the amount that would have killed most people. He also lived without ill effect. Why? Both of these men had mixed the poison with finely ground charcoal, which has a phenomenal ability to hold poisons from being absorbed by the body. Even so, we do not recommend that you try the above 18th century experiments!
It is important to understand that charcoal (or carbon) does not function like a sponge in pulling into its inner structures various pollutants. Instead, poisonous gases and chemicals adhere or stick to its surface. If you were to eat the carbon, nearby poisons within your body would attach to it firmly until the body expels both of them from the body. The charcoal is not absorbed into the blood, but is merely a carrier of toxins. As far as we know, carbon does not lose any of them prematurely.

What does "Activated" mean? When wood is heated 600 degrees centigrade in a container with the oxygen removed, certain gases and liquids are driven off. It does not 'burn' because the oxygen is missing. (Only a little may be in the wood itself) After this process is completed, steam at 4OO degrees centigrade is introduced (or air is sometimes used), under high pressure. Remember, it is not "absorbed" but 'adheres' to the outer surface of the carbon.

Not only is this state of 'active porosity' obtained by the steam or air pressure process, but simultaneously purifies the product for internal use. Use the powdered form if possible, as commercial tablets are about half as effective and should be chewed.

" after all the debates K.I.S.S. seems to always work best "

[badflash]

Activated charcoal is great, but only for a short period, then it is exhausted. It provides no long term benefit. Unless you set up a way to easily change it, and make it cheaply, you need to explore other methods.

Reed beds, cattails, and even algae have proven to be cheaper and more effective for the long haul.

[dennis]

badflash sorry but your reply is almost funny did you read my post?? you tell me to do something but you dont know what i was saying it seems , do i need to explain or ignore what you said to be polite

[head rush]

rfeiller Thanks .... do you have a link or maybe a post that you think I could get other ideas on?
I have already a few designs that I want to draw out and post here so as to get more points of view.........or at least to see if i'm going to do it the right way....

So dennis and rfeiller, I can use wood charcoal? un-activated? It would work just as it is?
Obviously I would have to construct the bed with the different layers of various gravel and sand.
The charcoal, I presume would have to be one of the top layers. Crushed to a small size?
Maybe the second or third layer.
Does this charcoal eventually get saturated? Will it have to get changed or is it a constant cleanser?

Who would of thunk to burn the inside of a barrel hey?

[head rush]

badflash...you too?
What's with this quick draw stuff? ? ? lol
So it does get exhausted !

[JCO]

Dennis,

badflash sorry but your reply is almost funny did you read my post?? you tell me to do something but you dont know what i was saying it seems , do i need to explain or ignore what you said to be polite

More than likely Badflash will not respond to your post but I on the other hand am a little more outspoken. Of course it is only my opinion but maybe it would have been a little more polite to have ignored the post by Badflash altogether than to have commented on it.

[rfeiller]

head rush, sorry this thread went sideways, i believe that you can achieve the basic results you need for cleaning water with micro/macro plant life, bacteria of course is the primary cleaner. aeration has not been mentioned and that is the most critical element.

looking for some sources for you.

happy new year!

rich

[dennis]

wow, i was not trying to design his system i was not even saying he had to use charcoal, i admire what he is doing under such circumstances, some seem to get some weird idea i was saying use charcoal in aquaponics? notice i said there is a company using only plants to clean all water including black water, so yes i see the proof that plants can be used, yet some tried to cram the same notion that i presented on my post sort of repeating what i said saying i was worng but saying they are right and repeat what i allready said ??? lol i was not trying to tell him how to do this and only offered a couple of other plants to look at IF they can be of use to him , not that those plants are the best but because they have multi use, such as in the case of money being tight !! i left details to his exploration he is smart guy and if he thought he might need something like bamboo then thru his own research he would see other uses of bamboo like for low cost pipe or construction, as far as the dreaded charcoal subject part of this i never said it had to be used, what seems common sense is research all the plants used in such systems , see what he has available try them , test the water as it comes out see what is left and look for ways to remove any other toxins , and yes if needed the slow sand would be next i think but i have to go back to stuff i was reading 10 years ago i, hey i have worn out 3 computers on all of this stuff, and yes to the one that said i should just ignore stupid comments, i will to the point of not using this site if i have to, i am lucky that i have a great source of info on aquaponics, a working commercial system, and not looking to experment myself, i admire those that do twist and tweek i will always check from time to time to see what they learn
good luck in africa and hope i get to drop in one day to see your hard work oh and thanks to the guy in nevada for his info

[jackalope]

humm, well i have been trying to NOT get very technical here, in hope those with intrest will do the research, doesnt seem the place to go into a lot of detail so i will keep it simple, anyone seeking clean water, take a look at slow sand filters and activated charcoal, no neither is the perfect answer but i trust inmankind and think most here if they choose learn about water will do the research, i prefeer to keep it simple and not try to scare people with " my knowledge" both slow sand and charcoal activated or not have a use, i did not say to use it, just opened the door to look at a couple of things in use
here is a bit from natures sunshine product

An astonished gathering of the French Academy of Medicine watched as a pharmacist named Touery downed one grain of strychnine (10 times the lethal dose) without any noticeable ill effect! A few years earlier in 1813, another Frenchman swallowed a whole teaspoonful of arsenic trioxide, about 150 times the amount that would have killed most people. He also lived without ill effect. Why? Both of these men had mixed the poison with finely ground charcoal, which has a phenomenal ability to hold poisons from being absorbed by the body. Even so, we do not recommend that you try the above 18th century experiments!
It is important to understand that charcoal (or carbon) does not function like a sponge in pulling into its inner structures various pollutants. Instead, poisonous gases and chemicals adhere or stick to its surface. If you were to eat the carbon, nearby poisons within your body would attach to it firmly until the body expels both of them from the body. The charcoal is not absorbed into the blood, but is merely a carrier of toxins. As far as we know, carbon does not lose any of them prematurely.

What does "Activated" mean? When wood is heated 600 degrees centigrade in a container with the oxygen removed, certain gases and liquids are driven off. It does not 'burn' because the oxygen is missing. (Only a little may be in the wood itself) After this process is completed, steam at 4OO degrees centigrade is introduced (or air is sometimes used), under high pressure. Remember, it is not "absorbed" but 'adheres' to the outer surface of the carbon.

Not only is this state of 'active porosity' obtained by the steam or air pressure process, but simultaneously purifies the product for internal use. Use the powdered form if possible, as commercial tablets are about half as effective and should be chewed.

" after all the debates K.I.S.S. seems to always work best "

@ dennis - I'm no "health nut" but the wife is ..... are you saying that swallowing powered charcoal is a good thing? I've never heard of that! THX

And, BTW, I use activated charcoal in my FTs to remove toxins from the crappy water we have - Chlorides, Flourides, and who knows what else I don't see that as being a bad thing and we also use zeolites, when we can afford them! We still run the water thru GBs to let the bacteria do it's thing. The charcoal does have to be replaced from time to time, but so what ..... so does the media if you don't want to put it into a self-cleaning oven to bring it up to 550F to kill any diseases, flukes or parasites that might be in the fish water.

@head rush - I once found a You-tube vid that showed a guy in Israel that was doing pretty much what you are intending to do ..... using reeds (I think that's about the same as 'cat-tails' here in Montana) to filter, and heal the water from his grey-water system - something we can't do here in Montana, because to have a pond, we have to get the permission of the state, county, city, and probably the Feds! .... I've lost all of my bookmarks recently, so I don't have it anymore, but maybe you can find it if you search enuff ....

Just my 2 centavos .....