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Thread: Sizing systems

  1. #11
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    Re: Sizing systems

    the reason that i asked for the dilution factor is if there were any published information on the minimum levels of nitrates to be able to maintain aquaponics, since nitrates can be measured, the type of plant and quantity would not need to be known. nitrates are insideous as far as the health and growth of the fish is concerned, because the fish's gills are not destroyed immediately as with ammonia, people are not as concerned as they should be with the levels of nitrates. fish weakened by nitrates are much more prone to parasitic infestations.

  2. #12
    Moderator badflash's Avatar
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    Re: Sizing systems

    Tilapia are much more tolerant to nitrates than many other fish. 50 ppm or more does not effect them.
    The best fertilizer is the farmer's shadow

  3. #13
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    Re: Sizing systems

    Before I became interested in AP, my standard technique for nitrate removal was partial water changes, and a good test kit. I always tried to keep nitrates under 40ppm. If I was getting close to that number, I would do a water change. I am anticipating far fewer water changes with AP, but would still maintain that as a loose guideline. And of course if you are using tilapia, you have a bit more leeway, as they are very tolerant of poor water quality. I have even been told by a long term tilapia breeder that they can even withstand ammonia as long as it builds slowly, and they have time to adjust. Not that I plan to allow that to happen.

  4. #14
    Moderator badflash's Avatar
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    Re: Sizing systems

    SRAC reports say that tilapia can handle nitrates up to 300 ppm, but only about .5 ppm ammonia long term. The problem with ammonia is that it spikes, and seldom rises slowly.

    In AP you seldom if ever need to do water changes. The key is to never remove or add too much fish or plants at anyone time. Just like water changes, the 50% limit applies, and you are better off with 25% harvests.
    The best fertilizer is the farmer's shadow

  5. #15
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    Re: Sizing systems

    Hey badflash, what is your experience with tilapia, and nitrite. I have always kept my tanks salted to help combat the occasional nitrite spikes on a newer system. I have always cycled with ammonia chloride, but usually for a couple of days after adding fish, i still experience slight nitrite spikes. I change water until it balances out. Well what do guys do in an AP system to avoid this, since salt is not good for plant growth? Do people sometimes keep AP systems salted at a minimal level, that won't affect plant growth. Bottom line is I like adding salt, I am concerned about not being able to salt an AP system. And also since tilapia are fairly tolerant of poor water quality, can handle small amounts of ammonia, and large amounts of nitrate, what is your experience with nitrite tolerance? I have read that they are fairly intolerant. But salt can combat this very well.. Thanks in advance.

  6. #16
    Moderator badflash's Avatar
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    Re: Sizing systems

    I don't use salt. I like to start out with a really small bio-load and a good seeding of bio-active bacteria from a heathy established system. It has never been an issue for me. As the tilapia grow, so do the good bacteria.
    The best fertilizer is the farmer's shadow

  7. #17
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    Re: Sizing systems

    pheromones, hormones are still not removed by plants or nitrification. have you all done any comparisons of growth of fish in open systems versus closed systems I have seen stunted tilapia M. i will not be using tilapia in my system but KOI. Tilapia would never cover their cost, much less the labor in raising them in a 20,000 gal system with the cost of utilities and such in the SF Bay area, which in a decent economy KOI will. (although we know the economy is getting much worse) i know that in third world countries tilapia are used as part of their bio waste water treatment systems, i never buy imported tilapia or at a restauarant.
    certainly not trying to be negative by any means, i always feel a responsibility to whatever i am raising to afford it the best that i can within reason.

    thanks for all of the information. i have garnered a lot from this forum in the short time that i have been a member.

    Rich

  8. #18
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    Re: Sizing systems

    Hi Brier, At another forum, it's common for people to use salt in their system. I added (very) little to mine.
    I don't remember it's use, being linked to nitrate spikes. (?)
    Mostly for the fish's film....I also read where the tilapia can deal with colder water, if it has a little salt, it also adds some trace minerals.
    I understand, strawberry's can't stand any salt....I can't think of any other plants, right off hand.... that can't tolerate any salt....(?)
    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - President Ronald Reagan

  9. #19
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    Re: Sizing systems

    i didn't know that strawberries can't tolerate salt. the largest strawberry farms possibly in the country, thousands of acres are right on the pacific coast in watsonville, ca. they are bathed in moist salt air constantly. the sea air and fairly constant climate is why they do so well. that makes me curious. there are many cultivers that are not available to the general public, i know i have been unable to get any of their plants from the strawberry growers that sell plants to the farmers. stuck with quinolts (sp) and other strains as old as i am.
    isreal is a people that has done wonders with salt tolerant plants. what do they do?

    years ago Jungle Products main ingredient in their meds was nothing but table salt. there are those that believe salt will keep the parasite levels down in their overcrowded fish habitats, of course it doesn't. the parasites adapt very readily to enviromental changes.
    since freshwater fish use osmosis to transfer water and waste in their tissue cells, i can't beileve salt is all that great. i do like it on steak and eggs and the doc says none of that is a good thing.
    epsom salts is another thing; i found it be benificial for my fish that showed signs of shock. not to mention rose bushes.
    rich

  10. #20
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    Re: Sizing systems

    Rich
    You have to keep in mind terms ! Every mineral technicaly is a salt . I could be off on this one but it may have something to do with table salt being Sodium Chloride and to make it you add chlorine to sodium . Sodium is not a problem but chlorine is .Also in most of the salt there is added iodine unless you use natural sea salt . Table salt is antibacterial so I can see the reasoning behind using it as a safe method of treating fish .

    Epsom salts are Magnesium sulfate so not even close to what we call salt .

    Basicly I think the fish can take a lot higher PPM of salt that most plants could and I did not know strawberries would not deal with ANY salt eihter but then I never salt while I water the garden ,so what do I know
    Have A Kind Day
    Mike

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