Greetings from Montreal

[Chef_Vee]

Hi all, I'm new to aquaponics.

I am a chef and professional cooking instructor with no gardening knowledge. I have kept fish many many years ago. My girlfriend is a very knowledgeable organic gardner. Since I love to tinker and reseach, I thought aquaponics might be a great thing for the two of us (mostly me) as well as a great "green project" for my school.

I have set up 4 small systems in different locations.
2 @ home which I check on the weekend (fish are autofed),
1 @ my Girlfriends which I check regularly,
and a brand new 1 in my schools dining room which is identical to the one one set up at the GF to help promote sustainability with the students and the dining room guests. I'm in the process of preparing an info sheet to hand out to the curious.
If one in ten try this at home, well that would be great !

The 2 systems @ home; one (by far the best system I have made) consist of a 29 gallon fish tank (used-donated) powered by 24 - 15 - 3 + 6 (aprox. 12?) feeder goldfish and is about 2 months old. Small levels of Nitrate are being produced. A 2'x3'x7" (40 L) hydroton growbed sits above the aquarium. It floods and drains 5 times/day (pump on 3mins), the pump is on a timer and bell siphon drains the system in about 1.5 mins. Growing in it, from seed, are 6 tomato seedlings (doing ok) and basil (not doing ok) as well as a stevia cutting (not so good either) and a dying rosa bianca eggplant (doing well) from my GF's garden. This system at last test 5-10 ppm Nitrate, 0-0.25 ppm amonia and a Ph of 6.8 -7.2.

#2) I set up a 25L vase filled with water + 125ml urea, beneath a 10L clay pot with Hydroton powered by a airlift pump and aerator below (this one is only a week old). I'm interested in trying this one without fish (peeponics) and wondering how much pee per week should I be adding once the system has cycled to produce enough nitrates for say one large transplanted tomato plant (in the future).

The two other systems are pretty much identical. They consist of a small (7L & 9L respectively) perlite growbed above a new 5 gallon aquarium. Both are powered by an airlift pump and have aerators. Neither was cycled with old aquarium filter parts and neither are producing nitrates yet. The first one is 4 weeks old and had 3 x 3" fancy goldfish but 2 died in the first week probably due to me over feeding in the beginning-I thought this might jumpstart the production of beneficial bacteria in the bed =( The one in the dining room at school has no fish yet (only 4 days old) and a few Moroccaine Mint roots and shoots for green.

all of these systems are artificially illuminated (except the one @ school due to an exceptional south facing window)

The two biggest questions on my mind are;

1) how long should it take to cycle a brand new system, if I'm just waiting for the beneficial bacteria to find it's way to my grow bed (ie without using old filter parts to jump-start)? after 4 weeks, the mini system at m GF's shows 0 nitrates, somewhere around 6 ppm Amonia, and a Ph of 7.2

2) how much urea would be required weekly to power the 25L peeponics unit once beneficial bacteria are present.


Thanks


Eric

[keith_r]

i'm still pretty new at this, but i'd say hold off on adding any more am until it drops. then it will take some experimenting.. with that small a system, (after am drops to 0), maybe a 1/4 cup and check levels 12 hours then 24 hours

oh, and it's great to see a chef getting into this! i'm a bit of a foodie, my first big harvest i have plans for a "seafood" chilli...

[urbanfarmer]

Welcome to our friendly community!

[urbanfarmer]

What temperature do you keep these systems at? What kind of water did you initially fill the systems up with? What kind of water do you use to refill them regularly with? Are you putting anything else in the water?

1) how long should it take to cycle a brand new system, if I'm just waiting for the beneficial bacteria to find it's way to my grow bed (ie without using old filter parts to jump-start)? after 4 weeks, the mini system at m GF's shows 0 nitrates, somewhere around 6 ppm Amonia, and a Ph of 7.2

About a month is pretty good to get a system at least cycling some. It looks like your system is not cycling at all. Are you changing the water regularly with tap-water or some other source of chlorinated water? That would be my first guess as to why you get NO cycling. The other thing is, I would leave the grow bed flood/draining 24/7/365 rather than 5 times a day. When I had a 10 gallon setup inside the grow bed would flood and drain dozens to hundreds of times a day (I never timed it, but it was a lot). One problem I would think is that the water-borne nitrifying bacteria would go dormant or die if they dry out. You might also get spikes in the ammonium levels because your water isn't going through the bulk of your biological filter except at certain times during the day. Also, make sure you are aerating the water in the tank below adequately or anaerobic bacteria will immediately outcompete the aerobic bacteria you are trying to culture. It wouldn't hurt to get a small handful of nice earthy soil and throw it in your grow bed. This would seed or "jump start" your system. Nitrifying bacteria reproduces every 2-3 days, which means it will take a days or weeks (in some case months) not hours or minutes to culture your aquaponic setup properly.

2) how much urea would be required weekly to power the 25L peeponics unit once beneficial bacteria are present.

By urea you mean pure urea purchased at a agricultural store or you mean a sample of human urine? Pure urea will have a specific, calculable quantity based on the volume whereas human urine will have varying amounts of urea in it. Anyway, realistically I would imagine you could add any amount that isn't too drastic because the plants won't care all that much if it's 0.25 ppm or 8 ppm ammonium in your water. Just pee in it a little bit (don't unload a full bladder) and then let it sit for a month. Keep in mind it's probably going to stink... so, I would say air on the side of less pee.

[jackalope]

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I would switch from Goldies (which are actually not that easy to keep) to Feeder Guppies (which seem to be very tolerant of uncycled systems), I cycle my systems with Guppies, and when the system is ready for Tilapia, they become a 'prime rib dinner' for the Tilapia . Your Tilapia will thank you for those live treats .

My tanks usually cycle within 2-3 weeks from the get-go .... I haul my water from Lewistown, where they don't add anything into the water .... it is 99% pure ....... my local water has a high PH that cannot be brought down (8.4). If/when I do have to use the local water, I use 1/8 teaspoon of ascorbic acid to every 5 gallons of water and the fish are fine.

I'm closed down now for the Winter, but I will be starting up again in the Summer, so I can just tell you what I normally do.

[Chef_Vee]

i'm still pretty new at this, but i'd say hold off on adding any more am until it drops. then it will take some experimenting.. with that small a system, (after am drops to 0), maybe a 1/4 cup and check levels 12 hours then 24 hours

oh, and it's great to see a chef getting into this! i'm a bit of a foodie, my first big harvest i have plans for a "seafood" chilli...

I'll give it some more time then. after all it is a very new system.
Last week I added some old filter materiel to this system, this weekend it will be 10 days old, I'll check AM levels again and hope they've come down some.

Thank you very much for the warm welcome my fellow foodie


Eric

[Chef_Vee]

What temperature do you keep these systems at? What kind of water did you initially fill the systems up with? What kind of water do you use to refill them regularly with? Are you putting anything else in the water?

Room temp, so like 19-20'C. I put a submersible heater in the 29 gal system last weekend to warm things a little actually (shooting for 22-23). Initially I used municipal water. I haven't put anything else in the 29 gal system, 'cept an old sponge and white rock sac from the original filter from the used tank. The fish seem ok now, I added 6 more goldies last weekend. I'll keep you posted on their numbers after friday. If I need to add more, I consider guppies next time. I have also found an irregular source for fingerling nile tilapia once the system has stabilized, hopefully the timing is right (availability vs my readiness) =)
How many could I grow to plate size in a 29 gallon tank do you think?

[/quote]
About a month is pretty good to get a system at least cycling some. It looks like your system is not cycling at all. Are you changing the water regularly with tap-water or some other source of chlorinated water? That would be my first guess as to why you get NO cycling. The other thing is, I would leave the grow bed flood/draining 24/7/365 rather than 5 times a day. When I had a 10 gallon setup inside the grow bed would flood and drain dozens to hundreds of times a day (I never timed it, but it was a lot). One problem I would think is that the water-borne nitrifying bacteria would go dormant or die if they dry out. You might also get spikes in the ammonium levels because your water isn't going through the bulk of your biological filter except at certain times during the day. Also, make sure you are aerating the water in the tank below adequately or anaerobic bacteria will immediately outcompete the aerobic bacteria you are trying to culture. It wouldn't hurt to get a small handful of nice earthy soil and throw it in your grow bed. This would seed or "jump start" your system. Nitrifying bacteria reproduces every 2-3 days, which means it will take a days or weeks (in some case months) not hours or minutes to culture your aquaponic setup properly.[/quote]

I think you're confusing my different systems. The system that is a month old is on an airlift pump. It is constantly moist and trickling constantly. There is also a bubbler in the bottom of the tank (actually all the systems have aerators-I understand that it's important to help w/ ammonia oxydization). I have made three system that run like this actually, and all three, though pretty new, aren't doing much, yet. I did also use municipal water in these system at the start but I refill with 24hr old municipal water my girlfriend leaves in a watering can for her garden. So a hand full of dirt from the garden might help you say? I'll give it a try tonight.

The other, larger (29 gal) system (my first) is two months old, and as of last weekend's test, is making low levels of Nitrates. in fact this system seems pretty good. Plants a starting to come up nicely. This system is the only one that has a timed water pump and bell siphon. It floods at 6am, 10, 2, 6 & 10pm for 3 minutes each time. I must say that below the first layer, the hyroton is always moist/wet. Are you suggesting that if I leave the pump on constantly there would be more nitrates? I'm a bit concerned to run the pump constantly since this system is unsupervised for 5-6 days/week. Plus, it's not doing too badly. The tomato seedlings are 6" tall & the egg plant is doing much better than it was in my yard- where we tried to set up a small gardening plot - & failed =)

thanks for the warm welcome and all the advice

[/quote]
By urea you mean pure urea purchased at a agricultural store or you mean a sample of human urine? Pure urea will have a specific, calculable quantity based on the volume whereas human urine will have varying amounts of urea in it. Anyway, realistically I would imagine you could add any amount that isn't too drastic because the plants won't care all that much if it's 0.25 ppm or 8 ppm ammonium in your water. Just pee in it a little bit (don't unload a full bladder) and then let it sit for a month. Keep in mind it's probably going to stink... so, I would say air on the side of less pee.[/quote]

yeah, I did mean my own pee. After three days I did find the hydroton to be pretty smelly but I had to get pretty close. I'll check it again in a few days. hopefully having added filter materiel from the 29gal system helped to jumpstart it. I'll take new levels this weekend and hope that the Ammonia has come down.


Thanks for the warm welcome and all the advice.



Eric

[Chef_Vee]

I would switch from Goldies (which are actually not that easy to keep) to Feeder Guppies (which seem to be very tolerant of uncycled systems), I cycle my systems with Guppies, and when the system is ready for Tilapia, they become a 'prime rib dinner' for the Tilapia . Your Tilapia will thank you for those live treats .

My tanks usually cycle within 2-3 weeks from the get-go .... I haul my water from Lewistown, where they don't add anything into the water .... it is 99% pure ....... my local water has a high PH that cannot be brought down (8.4). If/when I do have to use the local water, I use 1/8 teaspoon of ascorbic acid to every 5 gallons of water and the fish are fine.

I'm closed down now for the Winter, but I will be starting up again in the Summer, so I can just tell you what I normally do.

Thanks for the warm welcome and advice.

I'll be adding feeder guppies to the new mini 5gal airlift system at school after it's cycled a little longer.

I'm gonna put tilapia in my 29 gallon soon I think, depending on availability at the aquarium store. A dozen?

As I understand it, if I let my (montreal) municipal water sit for 24hrs, the chlorine evaporates.
I'm not sure if it's the same at my house (weekends only) in the country but I do have access to a lake (5 min walk) and a drinking spring water source (10minute drive)-I actually get my drinking water from the source every 3-4 weeks.
I'll use it next time to top of water levels in my 29 gal flood and drain and eventually in the 25L peeponics and I'll just pick up more often =)


Eric

[JCO]

Welcome to the show....pull up an easy chair, relax and stay awhile. New voices are always a welcome addition to our family..! Whatever questions you have on you mind, this is the place to get the answers and it is time to pick a topic and start your thread.

[urbanfarmer]

It sounds like you just need to give it some time then. If a food source is present, these bacteria should take hold in your system and it should begin cycling.

The reason I am saying to keep it cycling often is so you don't get a spike in ammonia/ammonium. Also, it will help you establish your system faster because the bacteria will have a slow and steady source of food which helps them reproduce faster and establish your system. You can leave it how it is if safety is a concern, that is no problem as long as it stays moist between cycles like you say.

Let me know how the peeponics works. I didn't really have a system, per se, but before I dismantled my first 10 gallon aquaponic system, I took out the fish and made some measurements. There were 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and roughly 10 ppm nitrate. I peed in it and the ammonia spiked off the charts with no nitrate reading. After 24 hours the ammonia dropped to 0, the nitrite was too high to get a reading, and the nitrate was too high to get a real reading (it was over 160 ppm). Obviously, these levels are too high for fish, but the plants survived for the 5-10 days I had them there. To be honest, they seemed to get leafier and made more peppers. I only have it on 1 CFL bulbs indoors; so, this probably prevented the plant from growing as well as it should.

One last note, I am sure you have read this everywhere, but you should not share the edibles from your garden with other people. I'm not saying you have anything, but if you did there are many pathogens that can be transmitted in this kind of system. Moreover, if you are on any medications, they can metabolize into other compounds that may react even further once introduced into the system. Or, medications others are allergic too might find their way onto or into the edible. Just a word of caution is all.

Anyway, keep us posted!