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  1. #11
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    I would ask for a written copy of their study and not just a picture of three fish. Because of so many of the minerals, it may address a deficiency in the fish, which could result in more growth. However, that does not mean the fish are healthier or even safe to eat. If you are over a certain age and already have children, your risk factor is astronomically less than say younger folk. Heck, I won't handle plant rooting hormones without gloves because I still want to have children! This is not a problem for the older folk I work with though!

    I personally would feel uncomfortable using Azomite because it contains arsenic, lead, mercury, uranium, cadmium, flourine, among other things...

    SOURCE: http://www.azomite.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=11

  2. #12
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    WOW, a lot of people buy this stuff. I never thought I would actually have to tell people NOT to add URANIUM, MERCURY, LEAD, ARSENIC, or FLUORINE to their garden or aquaponic system...

    P.S. Where is the study regarding the fish growth? I had emailed the company months ago; needless to say, they never responded. I guess they're not used to people actually checking their sources and claims made by companies!

  3. #13
    Members cedarswamp's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    Quote Originally Posted by badflash
    My tomato plants started getting yellow leaves. Looked like a magnesium deficiency. Fish water has loads of nitrates and phosphates but can be weak in magnesium, postasium, and trace elements.

    I used dolomite, which is a calcium magnesium carbonate that effects pH only slightly and they greened right up.

    For Boron I use 20 Mule team Borax. Boron is a trace element. You don't need much. Go sparingly. Too much can harm invertebrates.

    Postassium can be found in wood ashes, but be carefull with that. Ashes can really spike your pH. Add to the beds and not the water.
    What dosing rate did you use for the dolomite? I've been contemplating adding it and also epsom salt (both of which I use on my ground and bucket tomatoes) to my system.

  4. #14
    Moderator davidstcldfl's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanfarmer
    WOW, a lot of people buy this stuff. I never thought I would actually have to tell people NOT to add URANIUM, MERCURY, LEAD, ARSENIC, or FLUORINE to their garden or aquaponic system...
    Your right UF, it doesn't seem right to use it...does it ?


    This is interesting.....the MSDS 'does not' say it's 'not safe'...
    http://www.azomite.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=15

    AZOMITEŽ - Material Safety Data Sheet
    Hazardous Ingredients: None known

    It also, has an 'organic' rating for animal feed....
    http://www.azomite.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=67

    It also has 2 'organic' ratings for food production.....
    http://www.azomite.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=229

    http://www.azomite.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=229

    I'm trying to get a grasp of the percentages they use. I'm better with 'visuals'..., they go by parts per million. In order to make this easy to picture (and figure the math)...

    ...If I have 1,000,000 (one million) pounds, or 20,833.4 cubic feet of azomite piled up in my backyard (and a few of my neighbor's ) I would have 4 pds of uranium, 6.2 pds of lead, 1.1 pds of arsenic, and 900 pds of fluorine....
    For a few seconds, I thought I might be 'rich'...but I'd only have 12 pds of copper, 2.6 pds of nickel, 5/1,000 of a pound of silver and the same for gold....


    I wonder if azomite could be considered a representation of earth's average makeup...?
    'If it is', there is 'no where' to raise food. Well, I did see some pictures/video of a lab in Japan where they were growing in a clean room environment, with special lights....
    'if it is', Should we all live in bubbles? Then that brings up another issue, what should the bubbles be made out of...and what and how should we filter the air we breathe.... .. :P

    I did add a little azomite to 'half of' my pepper plants I started a few months ago.(36 out of 72) The ones 'with azomite' are about 40% bigger. Same dirt, same pot size, same seed batch, started side by side on a bench outside.
    EDIT/NOTE: They were just over a month old in 4 inch pots. I added maybe an 1/8 of a teaspoon (if that much) as a side dressing and watered as usual. A month later, my buddy was able to 'pick out' the one's with the azomite.
    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - President Ronald Reagan

  5. #15
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    Unlike the natural soil outside, container gardens and aquaponics are closed systems. The above listed elements will accumulate in the water and the fish and possibly the plants.

    The misconception of "certified organic" is little more than marketing. Just because it wasn't synthetically made in a factory doesn't mean the uranium mined out of the ground is any safer for you. Can you or anyone else even define organic? To me organic is any carbon containing compound typically produced by the metabolic processes of a living organism. I guess sheeple have been taught to feel warm and fuzzy when they see "certified organic" next to something. Even at the training they mentioned they are required to spray down their "certified organic" vegetables with dangerous synthetic chemicals before sending them to Cosco, remember?

    Lastly, we have plenty of things we can inject or feed to animals or plants that will make them grow better. It doesn't mean it's safe, but we've done it for a long time. I guess don't ask don't tell applies with this azomite stuff?

  6. #16
    Moderator davidstcldfl's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanfarmer
    Unlike the natural soil outside, container gardens and aquaponics are closed systems. The above listed elements will accumulate in the water and the fish and possibly the plants.
    I can see your point, that a regular dirt garden would have less of a chance to build up. A wicking bed, would perhaps, have the greatest chance of build up. While a container garden, should be next in line.

    True, an aquaponic system is considered 'closed'. However saying the elements would 'build up', is some what, miss-leading. If that statement were completely true....after a few months we could pull the fish out and never add any more nutrients, because they are in a 'closed' system. Wouldn't that be nice...

    The folks 'down under' regularly add salt to their systems. I've read threads in their forums where they discuss 'how many PPT' to use, and 'how often' they need to 'add more' ( using a meter to measure the salt. Seemed most used 1 ppt...up to 3 ppt was common) I remember one fellow mentioned how he could taste it in his celery. They were talking 'parts of a year'...adding more, a few times a year. Obviously the plants are using up 'any thing' in the water they can. Of course that is dependant on plant type, PH of the water, ect.

    Also, rain water can dilute the system's water. As you know, here in FL, we can have an inch or two in an afternoon summer storm.
    Of course, not every one does this...I have a swirl filter, and on a regular basis I'm removing and adding new water.

    I'm not trying to say we even should use azomite in our systems. But after seeing the results 1st hand, when I did use it on my seedlings.... I have to wonder at how important are the interactions of the macro, and micro nutes with the more common ones..?....things that make you go 'Hmmmmm ?'

    Yeah, the 'organic' thing is over rated. Too many inconsistencies...
    Actually I don't remember them saying they had to spray something on their organic produce before shipping. Might of been when I was sitting in the back, I had to move forward, my hearing isn't what it use to be..
    What was the purpose of the spray ? Did they happen to say?
    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - President Ronald Reagan

  7. #17
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    Uranium occurs naturally in low concentrations of a few parts per million in soil. If you keep adding it to a closed system, even if over a period of a year, it will easily be 10's, 100's, or 1000's of times that. ESPECIALLY, if you're a MAN because you're going to think MORE IS BETTER. Do not lie, you would do it!

    They said they were required to use the spray to "sterilize" the produce. They tried to oppose it, but they had to do it regardless. They considered it ironic they had organic on the label and had to spray synthetic chemicals on the produce AFTER it was harvested.

    I don't think it's misleading at all regarding the build up. Plants take up nutrients they need unlike mercury, arsenic, etc. HOWEVER, fish have something called osmoregulation and if it is in the water it will get in their system (as well as any other organisms that absorb it like bacteria or other things they eat). This is what happens with ocean caught fish, etc.

    The "salt" or table salt is DIFFERENT. As I have been trying to tell everyone for so long, plants take up SODIUM in place of POTASSIUM and actually become more succulent as a result showing no signs of deficiency with the right amount of sodium. What you might even find interesting is Disney showed their aquaponic system at the conference, and when she showed the analysis of nutrients (they carefully monitor) I noticed they had 0 ppm potassium and they were adding sodium. Of course, no one in the room got it, but I quickly asked her about it and she confirmed they do in fact use this method in their aquaponics. I doubt they read this forum since they are quite educated and figured it out on their own, but my "THEORY" is confirmed.

    So, if you don't add too much "salt" the plants do "eat" the salt and remove it in a closed system like aquaponics, but they DO NOT uptake much mercury, arsenic, etc (nor would you want them to). Unfortunately, the fish DO absorb some of these things (I can't say which they absorb or at what quantity, but I know arsenic and mercury and lead, but maybe all of them).

    Again, I would NEVER add these things to my system. If you could REMOVE those elements from azomite, I would gladly use it.

    NOW, as far as the GROWTH. It might be as simple as there are unidentified nutrients required by these organisms via the bacteria for the plants or the fish directly (plants get their nutrients from bacteria including antibiotics, vitamins, and hormones, etc). So, if your bacteria or plants have a genuine deficiency that "modern science" has yet to identify, adding azomite will help while at the SAME TIME adding dangerous toxins. It doesn't mean it's a good idea. While the claims and your observations are interesting, MY issue is with the dangerous elements (THERE'S URANIUM FOR GOD'S SAKE, U-R-A-N-I-U-M) for our purposes.

  8. #18
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    This is what happens to a solution of pure water starting at 7 pH when you add 4 ppm Uranium:

    pH: 4.176
    Ionic Strength: 3.36e-05



    It could easily bind to something and get absorbed with something else in an aquaponic system... but hey, makes a hell of a pH down, don't you think???

  9. #19
    Moderator davidstcldfl's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanfarmer
    Uranium occurs naturally in low concentrations of a few parts per million in soil. If you keep adding it to a closed system, even if over a period of a year, it will easily be 10's, 100's, or 1000's of times that. ESPECIALLY, if you're a MAN because you're going to think MORE IS BETTER. Do not lie, you would do it!
    ....your right 'us guys' would do it...

    Lets keep using my 'off the wall' visual in the above post...in which I used 1 million pounds of azomite. And add your statement to it...
    (I'm really tired....hope this makes sense...and hope my math is correct.. )

    You said soil has 'a few' ppm of uranium....let's say 2. In order to get my backyard system's water up to 2ppm, a natural level...I would need to add 'x' pds of azomite...?

    A cubic foot of the stuff is 48 pounds...a million pounds would be aprox 20,833 cu ft.
    A gallon of water is a cu foot.

    My backyard system is (just over) 2,000 gals/ cu ft....so my system's water is aprox 10% of the volume of the 20,833 cu ft (1 million pds of azomite)

    Adding 10 % of azomite would give me 4 ppm, so I need to reduce that to 5 %.

    In order to get 2 ppm of uranium into my system, a natural occurring level in soil....I would need to add 1,042 cu ft... 'or' ...50,000 pds of azomite to my backyard system.... .....wow, is my math correct ?


    Quote Originally Posted by urbanfarmer
    The "salt" or table salt is DIFFERENT. As I have been trying to tell everyone for so long, plants take up SODIUM in place of POTASSIUM and actually become more succulent as a result showing no signs of deficiency with the right amount of sodium.
    So, I'm wasting my time adding banana peels to my media beds....oh well, the worms love them...

    UF, What could we use, to add sodium to our systems (something 'cheap' and natural)....and how much per 100 gals to add 1 ppm ?
    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - President Ronald Reagan

  10. #20
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Ground Dolomite, and other safe suppliments

    People have thresholds for diseases caused my metal toxicities. Mercury is one of the suspected causes for an increas in Alzhiemers for old folks and ADHD and some other diseases I can't remember off the top of my head. I'm not worried about what will happen next week, in a year, or even 5 years, but I'm worried about what will happen beyond that. Hell, I could eat a bag of that stuff right now and be fine in the morning, but I might have some ill effects in a few decades. The research on this is slowly coming out, and there are many good documentaries out there on this kind of stuff.

    Believe it or not mercury is the most toxic non-radioactive metal known to man. It's actually far worse than uranium by comparison... We're already very poisoned and if I'm going to eat vegetables and tilapia they better be clear of toxins otherwise I might as well buy from China...

    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_toxicity
    the lethal dose for most adult humans is estimated at 5 to 10 g (which is equivalent to 32 to 64 mg/kg elemental fluoride/kg body weight)
    P.S. You would need about 8,000 pounds of azomite for a 2,000 gallon system to get 2 ppm U, but I see your point. A big giant alarm went off in my head when I saw some of the elements and the quantities it has. However, Fluorine is still a concern being 900 ppm. The lethal does for humans is 15 ppm or 2.4 g (the above is the total weight of NaF not just F). So, I guess I was wrong, I can't eat a bag of this stuff... I would actually drop dead after eating 2 pounds of it from the Fluorine alone!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by davidstcldfl
    UF, What could we use, to add sodium to our systems (something 'cheap' and natural)....and how much per 100 gals to add 1 ppm ?
    Cheap I know, but what are you looking for in terms of "natural" ? You can use sea water? In fact, I heard in some regions farmers go collect sea water once a year for their crop because the growth it adds is substantial (this has to do with the dozens of nutrients in it).

    Table salt could work. Most folks use NaOH, sodium hydroxide, as a pH up. The Friendly's said don't do this because it will fail or something (I don't remember their reasoning), but it's what Disney uses successfully now for years as a pH up.

    Don't go over 50-60 ppm of sodium according to the head horticulturalist at Disney. She cited some research off the top of her heard (some guy from the 80's), but I didn't have a pen... LOL

    Table salt is 40% sodium by mass; so, for every 100 mg of table salt per liter of water you will have 40 ppm of sodium.

    P.S. I still use banana peels and wood ash. The reason is I focus on the nutritional value of my crop not just the growth or commercial value. YOU ON THE OTHER HAND SHOULD CONSIDER WHICH WAY IS CHEAPER. Sodium also yields better looking plants and it makes them hardier all around.

    It's REALLY weird because the same thing happens to humans with CALCIUM. They found people that intake STRONTIUM in place of CALCIUM have much stronger bones and some other unbelievable health benefits. Basically, their bones end up being made of STRONTIUM... It almost sounds like WOLVERINE FROM XMEN???

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