Oil Economics

[badflash]

Ethanol burns much more efficiently than gas, so the energy density is made up by that. The loss in milage is no more than 10% but some tricks with vaporization can actually get you better milage than gas, especially if you take off all that pollution control crap that isn't needed with ethanol. Once you go above 50% ethanol in a flex fuel vehicle, the check engine light comes on. The reason? The catylitic converter goes out because it has nothing to burn!

I work in the nuclear industry. The new batch will be on line in under 10 years. The process has been streamlined. No one would build any new ones if they thought it would take 30 years. There are over 30 applications in the works for new nukes and a couple have broken ground for contruction. The economy is the biggest factor holding things back. Demand for electricity is down.

Breakthroughs have been made in making alcohol from cellulose. Once they crack that issue, ethanol will be very cheap, probably around 10 cents a gallon.

tyrtaeus - You must have missed the cost thing. Corn is not subsidized, but farming is and they pay you not to grow. They artifically keep the price of corn and grain high. Even at that, if you were going to pay $5 a bushel to feed cows, you can get $4.80 from the alcohol, and still feed the cows.

[stucco]

I’ve been pushing jack’s book for awhile now http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html reading it will make you want to start a movement, but where do you start?
In my opinion, the long and short of it is…
Knowledge is key…people fear what they don’t know.
Like so many creatures, we are followers without understanding. …people fear what they are told to fear.
Complacency of mind easily becomes complacency in action…people fear change.
As Hunter S. Thompson said,“Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed.”
How do you get a society of people programmed to believe that everything is alright… to wake up to what is really going on?
How do you get everyday 9 to 5ers to realize what they, their society, their friends, their government is doing is a detriment to the world on which we are feebly surviving.
With all of our so called technological advances, it’s funny sometimes how behind ancient civilizations we are. So, yes... we have cured diseases… and we have buildings that test our imaginations… and our computer age is sometime beyond belief- but what about the nature of things the earth provides. Free to those who are open to them- not the pharmaceutical companies who copycat and synthesis, but to those who seek to use what is offered in it’s natural state.
Humans have a tendency to believe we are the most important part of this cycle, but in the end… if we don’t wake up… we will just be another notch in the history of the earth’s belt. Seems to me the earth did just fine without us before, maybe we should take a lesson. History is full of great events thru the ages, but how many of them do you really remember ? Do we care? Generally not unless we believe it applies to us. Most people need an event in their lives to jumpstart their fight or flight mechanism. We need to realize the event is here and now…

[Big Al]

hi swamp creek, is the sugar cane type of plant called sorghum. and lets not forget about bio-diesels.

[badflash]

There is a thread on Camelina sativa, which is a very exciting new cash crop. 75 gallons of biodiesel per acre and the meal is a high protien feed high in Omega 3. It requires no tilling, fertilizer or watering. Grows on land you can't plant crops on, and it increases soil fertility similar to soybeans. Check it out.

[davidstcldfl]

Badflash, do you have a link to that ? Thanks.

[badflash]

Camelina sativa

[davidstcldfl]

Wow, that does sound pretty prommising. Even Wikipedia gave it a good plug.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelina_sativa

[Shas]

Anyone serious about ending the absurd marijuana prohibition
should join NORML.
THese good folks (Willie Nelson is the chairman,
and he is a leading and pro-active proponent of both liberty and agricultural fuels)
have been fighting the politicians and profiteers since the 1960s.

Many years ago I built the first modern earth-sheltered home in North Dakota.
I was driving a 3/4 ton Chev pickup with a 350 ci engine,
and burned nothing but the ethanol I produced for free in my solar powered still.
I was able to get spoiled grain from local farmers
by offering to clean out the moldy grain
from the edges and bottoms of their storage silos.
I never tasted a drop, because of the moldy grains I was fermenting,
but the 350 drank it without a hick-up.
Contrary to popular opinion I made no modifications to the truck at all;
no timing adjustments, no larger jets, nothing.

The only long-term problem I could see is the more rapid rusting of the exhaust system.

Gasohol is window-dressing, and fraught with all sorts of problems and expenses
but running straight ethanol (mine was only 60%) is cheap, easy, and sustainable.
Hemp is a great source of ethanol, as well as food and fibre.

BTW, did you know that plastic can be made from hemp?
Henry Ford made a car that was almost all from hemp,
including the bullet-proof windows!

[foodchain]

There's lots of alternative fuels. People have their reasons in liking or disliking each and every one of them. Look at the Chinese Tallow Tree, each seed has so much fuel in it you can light it with a lighter and let it burn intensly. Some states ban them as invasive and non native, but it's no more invasive than the Nandina shrub, which the majority of office buildings have planted around them. And that one has been PROVEN to be invasive.
Solar panels are not effecient enough to work for the average person. This is nothing new. HOA's and cities ban or restrict wind generators, even the small ones the average homeowner could make some use of. For those with ponds/waterfalls or streams there's a lot of work being done by the off grid/semi off grid crowd with DIY Hydro power. But the costs of building one, aren't practical for most people. Bio reactors/biomass reactors have application and the concept has been around for centuries, but I doubt it will be long before the clean air crowds start finding issues with this...I grew up in a logging/fishing town, and even in the 80's people were screaming about the pollution the pulp mill put off from it's STEAM!!!!!! People don't have to have facts or science to back up a claim. Pure sheep. Our current political structure is an excellent example..I will leave it there, as I don't want to distract from my point here. I looked at actually doing a biomass reactor as a bus. venture about 2 years ago. A hammer mill, and a pelletizing machine are not all that expensive. A bagging machine and labeler are not that bad either, and there's a market for it, but currently limited and mostly only for those that can produce tons per every couple of weeks. It takes a lot of pellets to = a ton. There's plenty of bio biproduct available even now to do this. The energy shortage/crisis is more by choice than by actual physical shortage. As the above stated/sited steam engines, hydro engines, hydrogen injection, biomass, etc. I also worked offshore as an underwater welder, so I know some of this first hand. Just because we are NOT allowed to drill in the gulf, doesn't mean the Mexicans, South Americans, or anyone else isn't or not already doing it. We have foreign drillers drilling not far off our shorelines, where we can't drill as our own legislation prohibits us, but allows them. Offshore drillers have to contain the excess natural gas that is a biproduct from drilling, this is costly and not effecient. The Mexican drillers burn it off, so much heat and fire coming off the rigs the tending vessels have problems getting in close enough for the man baskets to pick up from the cranes. The commercial fishing industry did the same kind of things in the NW. Feds have done the same thing with ordering soldiers into combat...we get ordered in, and then told not to return fire. Or better yet, have our guns taken away and given axe handles for crowd control. Been there, done that, and I got the scars. It's frustrating to constantly have the ability to fix an issue, resolve a problem, and constantly be hog tied by our own people. It's not going to change in my opinion until the pain of such actions is so great to us as country, and as a people that we force it to change, and re direct our priorities.

[foodchain]

I would/am for a change...a real change. But most movements I have seen, and most petitions I have been a part of in the end were a waste of my time...as they produced no results. But they always wanted funding from it's members. No matter what you contributed, they always wanted more.