Hydroponics Tips I've Picked Up

[urbanfarmer]

I would imagine it would be bad for necessary bacteria but better than having to bleach out your GB if there was a harmful infection. Oh and as an aside, don't use the stuff that you see at the drug store it has chemicals in it to stabilize the peroxide. Use only the 35% peroxide that they use in gardens.

Composition/Information on Ingredients of HYDROGEN PEROXIDE SOLUTION 3%

Ingredient CAS No Percent Hazardous
--------------------------------------- ------------ ------------ ---------

Hydrogen Peroxide 7722-84-1 2 - 4% Yes
Phenacetin 62-44-2 < 0.05% No
Water 7732-18-5 96 - 98% No

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/h4070.htm


Phenacetin, and products containing phenacetin, have been shown in an animal model to have the side effect and after-effect of carcinogenesis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenacetin

[urbanfarmer]

Hydrogen Peroxide used in the correct quantities is very benefiacial to your entire system. The one you want to use is the food grade 35% that has not had stabilizers added to it. All it effectively does is release the extra oxygen molecule that it carries into your system creating an oxygen rich environment. The bacteria in a biofilter are aerobic bacteria so they will thrive on it. Most nasty bacteria is anaerobic and cannot survive in an oxygen rich environment. I use this chemical alot for the transport of fingerlings from my hatchery to commercial fish farms that buy from me. I also use it as a first attempt cure all for any fish diseases we encounter. Only if this fails do I go onto the other stuff. It is also very effective as a foliar spray for your plants and helps get rid of plant eating pests. Its 1:14 am right now and I'm at home but will get the dosages for you when I go to the office tomorrow.

I have always read this, but I wanted to evaluate your claim (at least from a chemical perspective) as far as how much oxygen hydrogen peroxide actually adds to the water. Below is my brute analysis (I say brute because your fish would die in that solution... I think).

(35% H2O2) X (1000 g) = 350 g of H2O2 per Liter

ASSUMING 1 LITER:

(*350 g of H2O2) x (1 mol / 34.0147 g) = 10.290 mol of H2O2

2 H2O2 => H2O + O2

THEREFORE:

(10.290 mol of H2O2) x (1 mol O2 / 1 mol H2O2) x (31.9988 g / mol O2) = 329.268 g O2 or about 329 g O2 in 1 Liter

FROM: http://www.unuftp.is/static/fellows/...ovita07prf.pdf
The recommended minimum dissolved oxygen requirements are as follows:
Cold water fish - 6 mg per litre (70% saturation)
Tropical freshwater fish- 5 mg per litre (80% saturation)
Tropical marine fish- 5 mg per litre (75% saturation)

IN CONCLUSION, a solution of 35% hydrogen peroxide has 54,833 times MORE dissolved oxygen than the minimum required for cold water fish.

THIS IS SIGNIFICANT.

[badflash]

I would be very careful using this. H2O2 will attach sensitive flesh like gills. Gargle with some dilute H2O2 and see what it does to your gums and tongue. It won't harm you that way, but think about what that would do to your lung capacity.

[urbanfarmer]

I would be very careful using this. H2O2 will attach sensitive flesh like gills. Gargle with some dilute H2O2 and see what it does to your gums and tongue. It won't harm you that way, but think about what that would do to your lung capacity.

Yes, I make no claims as to its feasible use in an aquaponic system whatsoever. Hydrogen peroxide is a powerful oxidizer and could readily kill fish in large enough concentrations. Very small, and I emphasize VERY, small doses would do no harm to the fish since H2O2 occurs naturally and spontaneously in water, but as to the proper dosage... I don't know.

EDIT 06/05/2011: Proper dosage can be found here: Hydrogen Peroxide Disease Prevention/Remediation

[Brier]

If it has not been mentioned, many aquarists use H2O2 for both algae control, and transportation,IE adding emergency O2 to the water. In limited quantities it can be helpful. People also use it to aerate tanks during power outages.

[kneedeepinwater]

Hi guys I am new here. I have been looking into starting up an aquaponics operation and have been doing some research. This site seems very friendly and is the only site I have joined. I hope to learn an abundance and hope to help if I can.

I would like to offer a little info on some things that have been posted earlier. I know jack shit about aquaculture or aquaponics but as I said I have been doing a lot of searching and learning. I have been dealing with hydroponics for almost 10 years though.

I do realize this is an old post but I would like to offer my 2 cents if that's ok

Maybe it's a new thing but I haven't really heard about ph being used as ph down, although I have heard lemon juice is good.

I have heard about the pollination method mention and also heard you should spray the plants being pollinated with water before shaking to help the pollen stick.

PPM meters are great but they are useless in organics which from what I have read is what aquaponics is all about. They only measure salts which is what chemical fertilizers contain. Also I know the PH is important for the fish BUT when it comes to plants that are being grown organically it doesn't matter what your PH is.

Also when plants are being grown using hydroponics the best PH is between 5.3 and 5.8, slow swings between those numbers are the best so your plants can absorb all nutrients. 5.8 is optimum though.

Hydrogen Peroxide is a NO NO in organics or when you are trying to use beneficial bacteria. Not sure when it comes to fish though. Yes Hydrogen Peroxide is great for killing bad bacteria but it will also kill all good bacteria. Peroxide is known to be a good agent to combat root rot and its known to keep your roots pearly white. There is another alternative to peroxide though that accomplishes everything it does and more. The name of this product is Hygrozyme. This stuff is great for plants and the roots love it and its all natural.

[urbanfarmer]

Hi guys I am new here. I have been looking into starting up an aquaponics operation and have been doing some research. This site seems very friendly and is the only site I have joined. I hope to learn an abundance and hope to help if I can.

I would like to offer a little info on some things that have been posted earlier. I know jack shit about aquaculture or aquaponics but as I said I have been doing a lot of searching and learning. I have been dealing with hydroponics for almost 10 years though.

I do realize this is an old post but I would like to offer my 2 cents if that's ok

Maybe it's a new thing but I haven't really heard about ph being used as ph down, although I have heard lemon juice is good.

I have heard about the pollination method mention and also heard you should spray the plants being pollinated with water before shaking to help the pollen stick.

PPM meters are great but they are useless in organics which from what I have read is what aquaponics is all about. They only measure salts which is what chemical fertilizers contain. Also I know the PH is important for the fish BUT when it comes to plants that are being grown organically it doesn't matter what your PH is.

Also when plants are being grown using hydroponics the best PH is between 5.3 and 5.8, slow swings between those numbers are the best so your plants can absorb all nutrients. 5.8 is optimum though.

Hydrogen Peroxide is a NO NO in organics or when you are trying to use beneficial bacteria. Not sure when it comes to fish though. Yes Hydrogen Peroxide is great for killing bad bacteria but it will also kill all good bacteria. Peroxide is known to be a good agent to combat root rot and its known to keep your roots pearly white. There is another alternative to peroxide though that accomplishes everything it does and more. The name of this product is Hygrozyme. This stuff is great for plants and the roots love it and its all natural.

Welcome kneedeepinwater! You seem very passionate and eager to learn; so, I will give you the boot camp version for the topics you have covered. Basically, you have a lot of misinformation or incomplete information.

Ferns, Psilotum, Lycopodium, Selaginella, Equisetum, Bryophytes require water for sexual reproduction, but none of the vegetables I have ever planted do. As far as helping things along or stick, it may actually do the opposite for some plants that come to mind. I have never looked at the chemical composition of pollen and I am unfamiliar with the biological impact of being wetted to the point of saturation, but I would imagine that if you wet the flowering parts before shaking the pollen it would either stick to random things, not move at all, or have been sprayed off into oblivion. Anyway, you should thoroughly check into that and post back here when you have some more information!

I assume you are talking about TDS meters not "PPM meters" because I would love to have a "PPM meter" for pH, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, and many other inorganic chemicals present in my system. Anyway, TDS readings are not useless, but they are just that, a reading of the TOTAL DISSOLVED SOLIDS. Their use in hydroponics is accurate because you know what TDS you start with, what TDS you add, and what TDS you have left after X amount of time. Basic arithmetic will yield what has been absorbed (or is otherwise missing) from your system. In Aquaponics, we have a complex system with many sources of inputs that affect TDS. Having the TDS will have a weak and not very meaningful correlations with nutrients. However, TDS can be too high for certains plants, fish, and other organisms in the system and in very specific instances may be needed. It is not commonplace for most, however.

Your numbers for pH are shortsighted in that it does not tell the whole story. Different situations call for different pH levels, and having a wider fluctuation than you described can have the same beneficial effect you describe. pH is far too complicated of a topic to go over right now, but I would not recommend that low of a pH to the novice. I would recommend a pH closer to 7.

Hydrogen peroxide is fine if properly used. I would not recommend it to the novice until either an adequate knowledge has been gained in all things aquaponics or there is an emergency and that is the only material on hand (or if budget dictates). Needless to say, dumping hydrogen peroxide or any other chemical into your system in mass quantities is a foolish venture.

[rfeiller]

kneedeepinwater is correct on his pH for hydroponics. the only reason for the higher pH in aquaponics that i can figure out is for the tilapia and to try to increase the toxicity of ammonia which increased the level of nitrates. all fish that i have had experience breeding and raising that icludes native fish like bass, crappie, blue gill, sun fish, and channel cats, prefer lower pH's. in fact most fish do very well at 6.0 or lower a lower pH lowers the bacteria count of these disease carrying organisms. fish from rain water areas such as is found primarily in the tropics a pH of 4.-4.5 is common. the natives are not afraid to drink this water. the only cure for some very fast moving bacterial or viral infections in the hatchery was in droping the pH to 4.0 within a few hours. by the way if the water is clean, no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates moving fish from a pH of 7.5 to 5.pH produces no ill affects.

if someone is raising anything but tilapia i would recommend a pH of 6.0. the fish still produce the same amount of waste into the system, it would be an interesting study into how the waste products would be assimulated by the plants.

the tri meter used in hydroponics measures pH, temperature, and ppm of nutrients measuring the conductivity of the nutrient solution. yes the nutrients in hydroponics are sometimes salt based.

[urbanfarmer]

kneedeepinwater is correct on his pH for hydroponics. the only reason for the higher pH in aquaponics that i can figure out is for the tilapia and to try to increase the toxicity of ammonia which increased the level of nitrates. all fish that i have had experience breeding and raising that icludes native fish like bass, crappie, blue gill, sun fish, and channel cats, prefer lower pH's. in fact most fish do very well at 6.0 or lower a lower pH lowers the bacteria count of these disease carrying organisms. fish from rain water areas such as is found primarily in the tropics a pH of 4.-4.5 is common. the natives are not afraid to drink this water. the only cure for some very fast moving bacterial or viral infections in the hatchery was in droping the pH to 4.0 within a few hours. by the way if the water is clean, no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates moving fish from a pH of 7.5 to 5.pH produces no ill affects.

It is not for the Tilapia. I don't breed my fish directly in the AP system (although I found the goldfish breeding in 7.5 with no problems as far as I can tell). Tilapia will of course breed in almost any reasonable pH range, heck I think I spotted a couple of Tilapia in a back ally down the street reproducing... so just about anywhere. All kidding aside, the effects of pH are very complicated and the issue is compounded in commercial operations. Without sound scientific research into very specific applications of pH in aquaponics, there is nothing more than folklore and the only real advice any of us can give is, "If it works for you and you're happy with it, that's the best pH." I believe it is possible to have a more profitable commercial AP system with a pH of 8 versus a pH of 6, and I have posted research on this.

if someone is raising anything but tilapia i would recommend a pH of 6.0. the fish still produce the same amount of waste into the system, it would be an interesting study into how the waste products would be assimulated by the plants.

It has been studied and the topic is more or less settled in the scientific community. The effect of pH on nutrient uptake in plants in both soil and water are known. There are a lot of charts floating around on the forum that summarize these data.

the tri meter used in hydroponics measures pH, temperature, and ppm of nutrients measuring the conductivity of the nutrient solution. yes the nutrients in hydroponics are sometimes salt based.

Again, PPM is like a unit, in this case a density or unit mass per unit volume. In other words, PPM of what? If we are talking TDS in PPM then it's a number based of the EC, and everything I said above applies.