Riverbed systems

[badflash]

They don't waste water if you set them up correctly. So work off flowing water, others work off air directly. The ones that run on air work sort of like a percolator.

[badflash]

http://www.geyserpump.com/principle.htm

[JeffW]

I was reaching over 3 feet with air lift pump myself, check out video I have with that
55 gallon drum and river bed style dohicky that was an air lift pump and it is only
a small aquarium air pump. it works best when you put some type of air stone on it.

Last night I discovered another neat air lift setup for making a flow of oxygenated water
go across the surface of an aquarium and it works so well it creates a small surface
current that the fish loved and were swimming against

Why the air lift works best with a bunch of small bubbles rather than bigger ones
(Air line with no stone) is because small air bubbles are bombarding the displacment
of the water more than big bubbles. The other important aspect is that you need the
proper size tube or pipe to go along with the amount of air you are pumping into it.

Air lift is simply all about the "displacement" of water which forces it to ride up with all
the air bubbles. My goal in hydroponics and aquaponics is to try and consume the lowest
amount of energy (burning fossil fuels) to produce food and keep fish alive. So air lift is a
great way to move water. No air lift can not compete with other systems like pumps however
with that said., I am a big fan of air lift because I am also thinking "solar powered".
Already I have tested a DC powered air pump using it for "air lift" and it worked great.

Problems..yes there will be with solar because it has not been used that much. We have
been plugged in way too long and yes idea's are coming along but some of the things we
have been doing all these years such as using pumps and power has dominated projects.
Well for me I am always looking for "another way" to do it and this is why I try things even
before they are popular. My compost screening device is DC powered by the way and it
runs off a riding lawn mowers battery or if I choose it will run from a solar recharged
"deep cycle battery" the type used for "electric trolling motor" in fishing boats.

2 years ago I built a home made wind generator and it out out 6 VDC with about 12 knots
of wind. It blew apart in a tornado but hey life goes on. I made that out of a DC motor too
and if you take a DC motor and spin it it will produce DC output. I used diodes to control
the path of current flow and it charged a battery, neighbors are entertained trust me.

DC is cool there is so much we can do with DC power. I want my Aquaponic system to
be 100% "off the grid" ....oh yea!

[badflash]

The geyser pump is more akin to the hydraulic ram than the air lift pump. If a large amount of air suddenly escapes, the water follows it and gains velocity. If properly channeled it can really jump, up to about 20 feet.

[JeffW]

Badflash you know I realize I was saying I can make air lift rise 3 feet but you
know what? I forgot that was with a 55 gallon drum almost full so really I was
only getting the 1/2 inch PVC to pump water up that from bottom of the drum.

Make sense?

In other words I had a 1/2 inch PVC with air line in it and that was in the drum
and comes up and then water ran out. But the water was already way up the
PVC to level of what the drum was. Bad flash your right you can not get much
higher than a few inches I guess. Oh well it works if it is setup so you only need
a slight lift then transfer the water down to a slope which comes back much like
what Sheryl was talking about in the river bed system.

[badflash]

Air lift pumps are great for moving water, not for raising water. For circulation, they can't be beat. If you need lift, you need a different design.

[mommyhen42]

The gyser pumps I had seen onliine all had a check valve of sorts that would spray water till it reached a certian backpressure then it would close the check valve to pump the water, once the pressure reduced it would again open the check valve and it would spray water till it again reached an adequate back pressure which would then close the valve.

I hadnt seen one like you show in the link, so I will have to do a little more research.

Like JeffW I am trying to get this as low tech as I can in order to reduce the electricity usage.

my 4 flood and drain tubs in the greenhouse work off of timers but I am thinking I may go in there next week and make a mess and turn them into auto-siphons so that I can take away 1 pump and make it continuous. This may slightly raise the electricity usage since they wont be on the timers any more but it may do a better job with the growth rates in those tubs.

In the next couple of weeks I may take down the dutch buckets and put in either flood and drain tubs or build another riverbed pvc system... I am leaning towards another pvc system, as I really like it and the growth rate of the plants in there is phenominal...
besides that I want to plant more strawberries and you cant beat that one for those... I have baby strawberries all over the place.

[aquaarche]

do riverbed systems need to be narrow?

will a 3 ft by 6ft with a 10 inch gravel growing bed be ok to operate as a riverbed?

I figured I would lower the water level slowly as the roots grow. does this sound OK?

[JeffW]

Do you have access to PVC pipe? What about 3 or 4 inch thin wall PVC?

Any used 55 gallon plastic drums around?
NOTE: drums must have never been used for chemical storage

Check out all the designs that are out there with so many ideas people have come up with the pick the one you have the materials you can build with it and go with that to start out. Maybe you can start by keeping it simple and small then build more later or expand that one you make the first time.

Ideas are all over..here is another one..I think you can skip the oyster shells they mention
http://www.webofcreation.org/Buildin...qua/Chap3.html

[organicus_rex]

JeffW,

Your system seems to be doing well. Do you have any problems with the 1/2 inch PVC trickle/feeder tube clogging?
Where you are located it would seem that having enough warmth would be your biggest challenge. I grew up in Gary, Indiana and have relatives in the Coldwater and Colon, Michigan areas. That big lake keeps you pretty cool while the wind is out of the west or north. What do you do with your fish in the winter?
For your soil bound tomatoes, put a layer of straw about 3 inches deep around the plants. This will retain moisture and your plants will actually have shallow roots like your river bed plants by the end of summer.

http://www.groworganic.com and http://www.gardensalive.com are good sources for plant nutrients and very helpful staff too. Foliar feeding is superior to any other form. Feed early in the morning when the stomata are open to receive nutrients, spray the undersides of the leaves (where the stomata are located) more than the tops and try not to spray so heavy it drips a lot into your river grow beds. Dripping isn't a problem for the soil based plants and once you mulch with straw the minerals will get captured in the straw and feed the roots of the plants. They both carry liquid organic plant foods that can be added to the AP grow beds if needed occasionally.

I don't believe in set schedules for feeding like the labels state. I go according to how my plants react. I've fed them as often as every third day for the first month of summer and then back off to once a week the next month and then only two feedings in the third month. Play it by ear like Andre Segovia did the guitar. The kale family needs a little surfactant added (Cal Ben liquid pure soap, http://www.calbenpuresoap.com) to the solution so it will stick to their leaves but be careful feeding them in the AP grow beds since they will drip the most regardless.

One last question, have you ever read Prof. John Todd's (Woods Hole Institute, Woods Hole, MA) material on marsh system filtration for treating effluent waste? If not, google him and enjoy because his system design is not much different from yours except he uses deeper streams, primarily aquatic plants and plenty of aquatic critters to process the effluent.

Fascinating system you've designed, keep us posted for sure.

PS. Andre Segovia developed classical guitar playing, in his teens & 20's, as we know it today and couldn't read music until he was nearly 70 years old. Rules are guidelines and never set in stone.