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  1. #11
    Moderator jackalope's Avatar
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    Product Features

    * 3 Year Warranty

    Product Description
    Product Description
    Rule Submersible Bilge Pumps give you BIG value for your dollar! Rule submersible bilge pumps have set the standard for the industry for many years. They are the first choice of yachtsmen and commercial fishermen throughout the world. More innovations in bilge pump design have come from Rule Industries than any other manufacturer. Totally submersible; Compact, efficient, maintenance-free; Silent running, vibrationless; Exclusive Rule moisture tight Teflonseal; Ignition protected; Water cooled motor; No burn-out when run dry; Anti-airlock feature; Positive snap-lock strainer base. Order ONLINE Today! AVAILABLE SEPARATELY: Other Rule Submersible Bilge Pumps - word search in our Store for 'Rule Pumps'. Rule 500 GPH Pump... Keeps size and cost to a minimum. Same features as above. Permanent magnet motor. Stainless steel shaft. Ultrasonically welded housing for extra strength, eliminates leaks.
    One thing it doesn't tell us is whether it is rated for continuous duty or not ....... that would be a concern for me, because a continuous duty motor might last longer, even if you are using it for F&D, on and off For that price it sure beats the pants off the pond pumps available from Lowes or HD!
    I use the Linux Operating System ...... Free as in beer!
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  2. #12
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    I think for the price, the are rated for intermittent duty. I still have to figure out the logistics of how to do the flood/drain with bell siphons. Do I put the pump on a timer to run for however long it takes to trigger the siphons, then have it turn off and wait for the beds to drain before turning it back on? How do I control the drain speed of the bed; use a smaller standpipe/siphon pipe combination, or just do a timed flood, then wait 10 minutes and flood again?

    One question I can't seem to get my head around is if I have a 2'x6'x1' bed filled with ~14" of pea rock and flooded to 12", how do I figure out the volume of water that the bed will hold while taking into account the area the pea rock displaces? That brings another question; say I have 120 gallons in my fish tank, do I need to have that much, plus a certain amount for my beds that is always in the system? I'm really struggling with this one as I'm not sure how it will work if I pump most all of the water out of the fish tank all the time to fill the beds...

  3. #13
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    Not sure but 40% of gb volume for the water to fill it. Smaller pea gravel may make this less. I have 6000ltrs of media and have never worked out how much water goes to fill them.

  4. #14
    Moderator badflash's Avatar
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    If you cycle the pump, you don't need a bell siphon, you just have to be sure that the timing allows the beds to flood fully and the flow must exceed the capacity of the drain. The beds need an overflow line as well as a drain in this case. With a DC sump pump that is rated for intermittant duty, this is a perfect thing. You just need a timer that will cycle as often as needed.

    As far as DC air pumps, don't bother. Get a cheap inverter. 100 watt inverters are only $35.
    The best fertilizer is the farmer's shadow

  5. #15
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    hmm, ok. So, I would just put a slow-flow drain of some type on the beds, and put a timer on the pump to cycle as long as it takes to fill/drain? What type of timer allows for staggered timing? With a 500GPH pump, to fill a grow bed of the size I'm thinking (90 gallons without media), it will take roughly 4-5 minutes to fill., then probably 5-10 minutes to drain, and another fill cycle; or would it be best to do 5 minutes on, and 5 minutes off and tweak the drain rate so that it is drained in 5 minutes (if that's even possible)?

  6. #16
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    how much do fluctuating levels (without a sump) affect the fish?
    bell siphons scare me i think i will work with timers

    badflash is def. right with visibility problems in a black tank. i have to block the flares with black plastic and use a diving flashlight be able to see in all the corners of the tank.

  7. #17
    Moderator badflash's Avatar
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    The flood and drain times need to be determined by you. You need to experiment and not over think it. Turn on the pump and see how long it takes. Add 20% to account for bio-fouling. Make sure it stays drained for at least 20 minutes before it floods again.

    Check my signature. These things are not automatic. You need to baby sit it. If you don't pay attention, it goes off the rails.
    The best fertilizer is the farmer's shadow

  8. #18
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    @badflash
    That makes sense. I wasn't sure if someone had some magic to figure this out, or if I would have to use trial and error. In relation to the flood/drain cycle, I have a few questions:

    1) If bell siphons are not needed with this setup, what would you recommend for a drain that is, I assume, adjustable?
    2) What timer's are you guys using to control the flood/drain cycle; 12VDC if possible?

  9. #19
    Moderator badflash's Avatar
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    I don't know of any DC timers, but I'm sure you will find them for marine use as boaters need them. Any timer that has removable pins can be set up with multiple on-off times. One flood & drain cycle every hour is normally good. The drain should handle about 1/4 of the pump flow, and the overflow must be able to handle 200% so you don't flood is the drain backs up. I would not use valves in the drain as they are a clog point. Be sure the pipes are easy to remove and clean as they WILL foul.

    I would also provide some bio-filtration in the sump as there won't be any when the pump is off.

    Put a screen around the pump so fish won't get caught in it.
    The best fertilizer is the farmer's shadow

  10. #20
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    Re: All around questions (cycle times, sizing)

    Good to know. So doing some quick math here (bear with me...):

    "The drain should handle about 1/4 of the pump flow" - (500/60)/4=2.08GPM pump flow

    If my bed holds 40 gallons, it will take roughly 5 (+/-1) minutes to fill

    "Make sure it stays drained for at least 20 minutes before it floods again." - 40/2=20 minutes to drain

    Do I need to take the 20 minutes it will take the bed to drain and add another 20 minutes before flooding again; or does the 20 minutes it takes to drain the bed count?

    This is all starting to come together in my head better, I appreciate all the input I'm getting here.

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