Heaters

[Shas]

Thats where I figured the fridges coil in the back is always hot. It runs about 45 C /113 F. :idea: its wasted energy why not use it?

Wasted?
Not at all-
it helps to heat my house!
I am generating 20 kw off of my creek,
but I still have to watch my electrical consumption.
A 2,000 w baseboard heater uses a tenth of my total output!

Insulation is the big thing, in my mind.
It's cheap, whether insulating a fish room or a single tank,
and with no further maintenance or attention
it saves power year after year.

[keith_r]

you loose a lot of heat from the surface of the ft, but the growbeds are the main culprit in heat transfer.. floating styro on the ft surface will help, and insulating the gb's..
it's not even in to winter here yet (well.. technically it's winter, but not much snow yet) and my pool ft is at 64, the only insulation i have for it is the 1" blueboard on the floor..

[foodchain]

Keith_r.....wouldn't the solution then be to heat the room? Like in your case, a small pot bellied wood stove in the basement would raise the temperature, and the radiant heat then benefit the house above it. Harbor Freight has cheap ones, nothing fancy and even really small.
A single piece of hardwood would go a long way esp. if chimney pipe is routed to max. exposure to indoor air, then vent out basement window. Just make the stack tall enough to gain a solid updraft or risk smoking yourself out. Been there, done that.

[keith_r]

yeah, i just met a guy on another forum that is retired and makes wood burning stoves.. i'm definitely thinking about it, but i gotta get the system going first,, the fish and crays that i have will be fine.. if i do get to the point where i can heat the basement like that, i'll be trying tilapia and redclaw crayfish

[Eleven11]

I've been considering building a rocket mass heater:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtFvdMk3eLM

Not necessarily that design. Probably a simple rocket stove with a copper heat exchanger coiled around the flue.

...plenty of fuel laying around.


I've also been considering a solar water heater. Something like this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTO4aQZ9 ... 7C8B3CF879



Then there is the 2Kw heater at Home Depot...
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R ... ogId=10053

[foodchain]

I have been playing with a biomass stove, and using copper coils around the barrel sides to function as heat exchanger. Two problems....consistancy of temp, and copper is expensive.
I routed pex water lines through attic, and this has help more than I could have dreamed, but is still dependant upon the time of year and outside temps.

[Shas]

No concerns about copper in contact with the fish water?
I've always considered Cu to be a biocide...

[foodchain]

My experience...just my experience here has been that I have only run into problems with inverts. All the material I have read sais it's toxic but just haven't seen it. Let's assume I have been lucky, or not had high enough concentrations. Even then, I don't have to return that water directly to the tank. For instance in geothermal work, the well is drilled and sleaved, then a fluid, usually an oil based solution is pumped through it in a closed loop deal. You're never actually pumping anything out to of the well. Just moving the fluid you put there in a recirculation system. Utilizing the ground like a heat exchanger. I would be utilizing the fireplace the same way. The flu/stove heats the water in the coils, which is pumped through to another set of coils/radiator system that radiates the heat off.

The enclosed water never has to come in direct contact with the FT water, and I don't have to use copper on any system components that come in contact with/near the water.
This eliminates all copper concerns. I have seen someone use a gas home water heater, and utiize a similar design only they used high pressure/temp plastic tubing and just dropped into the pool. The hot water recirculates through the tubing coil. Pex may work as a better option than what this guy did. I am already working with a pex exchanger in my attic and it's phenominal.

Just my opinion, but I think there are more effecient ways of producing heat than this.
I am not impressed with the solar stuff, not much effeciency or energy production for the initial expense. Quite frankly, it sucks. Ever try a solar pump....want to waste the money, check out harbor freight.

I have tried many versions of heat exchanger designs and those seem to be both the cheapest to set up, and the cheapest to operate. I am finding that there's energy all over the place, in a great many things that for a variety of reasons just have been overlooked or not developed.
Doing reading on ethynol engines, etc and it's interesting to read how we came to run gas through our engines instead of the original alcohol. Seems there was about a $1/gallon tax on alcohol back then.....and gas was about 20 cents/gallon. So go figure...had more to do with market manipulation than actual productivity. Much in the same way we came to AC current instead of DC. Speaking of which, I saw on the news that incandescant light bulbs are going away, being replaced by manufacturers all together. We now have to use the energy effecient bulbs. I tried them a couple of times, and was frustrated by the gross lack of light...they suck!!! and that's being polite. Then I saw articles that documented that little ballast in the base on those goes bad and causes house fires. There was a warning issued by a fire inspector/marshal in CA regarding these things. Nice.

But I am getting off track. The original engine designs were completely setup to run on alcohol/ethynol The problems arise...if I read it all right. That's a big IF. But it appears that that stuff pulls water from anywhere it can get it. So the first thing you run into is fuel tanks rusting, fuel lines rusting, not to mention how much of your engine internal like water, etc. But with more and more plastics in cars, I am not so sure how much of this is a problem now.

Also read where people are running deisels off of 100% used motor oil...problems arise with the viscosity and pumping through the engine so they preheat it by running lines of it around the exhaust pipes. The heat thins it down and allows it to pass through the injectors. Seems the engine just has to be hot enough to thin it out.

As I look around, and I start to educate myself on this stuff, I start to wonder how much of the "shortages" we have are true shortages? Water shortages, fuel shortages, food shortages...how much of it is real, and how much is created, how much is media based hype? I know from working the oilfield, and seeing first hand that we have a vast supply of oil here.

However, no one wants the oil rig in their backyard, SF Bay for instance has one of the greatest deposits in N. America. Drilling, even for an underwater well head that isn't visible isn't allowed.
The pipeline that pumps from the sands in Canada to the refineries in the south that will produce thousands of jobs, and releive the strain of this industry is now delayed possibly even shut down.

It's hard to seperate the media from reality. Shas I am so sorry I have just totally tumbled off topic.

[bsfman]

I don't have to return that water directly to the tank. For instance in geothermal work, the well is drilled and sleaved, then a fluid, usually an oil based solution is pumped through it in a closed loop deal. You're never actually pumping anything out to of the well. Just moving the fluid you put there in a recirculation system. Utilizing the ground like a heat exchanger. I would be utilizing the fireplace the same way. The flu/stove heats the water in the coils, which is pumped through to another set of coils/radiator system that radiates the heat off.

Recirculating a separate heating fluid is a good idea. Perhaps a stainless steel coil or manifold containing the recirculating fluid and immersed in the tank would solve the metal contact issue and provide better heat transfer to the tank water than PEX.

Two other issues to take into account are pressure build up in the closed loop system and a pump capable of handling hot liquids. You could solve the pressure issue by using a recirc fluid with a higher boiling point that water and recirculating the fluid through a heat pickup manifold inserted in a large container of boiling water on your stove rather than a coil in contact with stove surfaces so that you know the recirc fluid will never exceed 212F. Hot fluid pumps are expensive, but here's one reasonably priced. Don't know what the flow rate is though...
http://www.amazon.com/March-High-Tem.../dp/B002O47P26

[Shas]

My experience...just my experience here has been that I have only run into problems with inverts. All the material I have read sais it's toxic but just haven't seen it.

This is the question I'm asking-
I know that copper is the traditional biocide in marine paints,
and it seems to do a decent job
at discouraging both plants and invertebrates from growing
on boat bottoms and submarine structures.
Yet humans have been drinking from copper pipes
and cups and kettles since the Bronze Age.

When I was raising angel fish back in the 1980s
I found that the lead water pipes in my old house
interfered with the development of both eggs and fry,
yet the fertility and growth of humans in my neighbourhood
did not appear to be effected.
(Humans seem to have an enormous resistance
to the immediate effects of ingesting pesticides and herbicides)

So what is the real-life effect on fish and gardens
of heating and delivering water with copper pipes?

It's hard to seperate the media from reality.

Ain't that the truth.
I've been involved directly or indirectly
with hundreds of events that were afterwards reported in the "news"
and never to my knowledge
has the report been accurate or even factual.
Not even one single time.
Which is why I'm asking the people who have actually done the experiment-
what is the real-life effect on fish and gardens
of heating and delivering water with copper pipes?

I'm aware of the separate-fluid heat exchangers,
and if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.
But if the risks of Cu-contamination are purely hypothetical,
we can save a lot of cost and effort
by simply using domestic water heaters directly.

Oh, and speaking of experience-
I used to run my 1973 Chev 350
on alcohol made in my solar still.
The ONLY negative issues I encountered
were rust in my fuel tank and exhaust system.