System Stuck....need to know why?

[foodchain]

Okay.
I am stuck.
Based on advice here, when I chose to downsize my system I gutted everything out and went with (6) 3/4" constant flow siphons, one to each 1/2 barrel. They fill from an elevated 275 gallon IBC via gravity 3/4" lines with 1/4 turn ball valves to adjust flow as needed. They fill very slowly. The siphon engages but doesn't release. So instead of ebb and flow I have trickle in and trickle out constantly.
What gives?

[foodchain]

IF a pic will help I can get one, but can't figure out how to upload. IF someone will post it here I can email it. Thanks in advance.
I have spent a small fortune building this, and I am more than put out that it's not cycling.
***update***
Just went out and fiddled with it some more. I can get the siphon to start and stop now. BUT not at the same time it's trying to fill. I have to trickle it till full then the siphon engages and drains. It's supposed to stop about 2 inches from bottom, and instead stops at about 4 inches. I was able to get pics of exactly what is happening. IF I open the ball valve, it fills fine when siphon is "OFF", but the match each other on flow rate seemingly when "ON".
Also, when all (6) half barrels are "on" with the ball valves, each barrel fills at a different rate, and not in sequential order like you would expect from the closest filling first. Instead it's a more random rate which makes no sense. Adjusting the ball valve helps to minimize this, but then creates problems with the siphon side.

I REALLY need help with this. Constant flow siphons seem to be good on paper but am starting to think crap in application.

[jvision]

Dose the return (where it enters the sump/FT) stay submerged? In my system, the siphon won't release until enough water has left the FT, back into the other GBs - they have to be out of the water in my system. Could that be the case?

For posting pics, I upload them to Photobucket.com, them paste the [IMG] tag here - no resizing or anything.

[foodchain]

I have disengaged it completely from the sump. The 3/4 inch discharge dumps into 2" line, which temporarily flows into a gutter and into the yard. Garden hose fills the IBC for now. So there's plenty of air to break the siphon where it dumps into the 2" line. The purpose of the air gap here is to function as a gas exchanger.

What is Photobucket?

A pic to show how each barrel works, from the flow in, to the flow out. Each one of the 6 is identical.



This pic shows the water level when the siphon stops. It's not supposed to stop for at least another 1-2 inches lower. EVERY barrel half stops at this point.



Picture of all 6 beds with 3/4" fill lines and ball valves. Volume tank and sump barrel are behind me when I took the picture.



This shows the general concept of how it all works.

[jvision]

I wouldn't worry about what order your barrels fill and drain in... I gave up on my system. Even with fiddling every day for a week, I couldn't get my system to be consistent. Some of my GBs fill in 8 minutes, some in 15... I just try to adjust what grows in each bed - stuff that doesn't like being wet goes in the beds that take longer to fill.
If you can figure out how to post pics of your system, it might help.

[foodchain]

Look, I don't care so much what order...so long as they cycle properly. Photo bucket isn't working. This new version of this site is killing me too.
It's starting to look like the drains aren't big enough.

[JCO]

As for the filling rate, you can control that with the separate shutoffs on each outlet.

Now as to your siphons, if I am seeing them correctly, they seem to be a "T" elbowed toward the bottom of the tank with two open ends at the bottom. Too much open end causes loss of suction too quick. Do away with the "T" and make it an inverted "U" with the open end of the drain a distance from the bottom of the tank of about 1/2 inch, no more.

This new version of this site is killing me too.

Sorry about what the new owner has done. I had purchased this software a number of years ago thinking I would update but decided against it as it didn't seem to have the personal community feel to it as the what I had been using since day one. Sorry.

Hope my suggestion helped.

JCO

[jvision]

Photobucket is a site to upload your pics to - it's got a huge amount of space for FREE!! I'm pretty sure they own your content once you load it, so I only load stuff that's meant for online use. Once you upload your pic, click the pic, then on the right side of the screen, it gives you 4 options for sharing - use the one that starts with [IMG] for this site.

[Apollo]

Here are my thoughts;

1. All your barrels will break siphon at that point because that is the point of equal pressure, if you siphon from a bucket once you lift the end of the hose to the height of the water in the bucket the siphon stops. This is not a bad thing, water is still being circulated from the bottom of your GB's, you'll always have some water remaining in your GB's. As an emergency water source for worms, long roots and as a wicker effect.

2. Your pipe siphon will not "fire" without adequate water volume...you might have to increase you rate of flow. Or build your pipe siphon out of 1/2" PVC. I would work on more water volume, not sure how long it takes for your barrels to fill. To much time may leave your plants out of water to long, with some water remaining in your GB it helps in decreasing your refill time.

3. Where the water meets the return pipe to the sump is where most of your problems lie. You have your 90 elbow going straight down. This needs to be turn 90+ degrees to the right. By angling it slightly upward you create back pressure in the water flow leaving your GB, this will cause the pipe siphon to "fire".

4. That last 90 elbow must never be completely under water...it needs to allow air to move back to the pipe siphon in order to break the siphon. It may take several air glops to break siphon. Think of it this way...back to siphoning water from a bucket with a hose. In order to break the siphon air has to enter the hose from either end, this air breaks the siphon in the hose and water will drain out of the hose.

5. I would like you to try this; take 1 barrel, take the 90 out of the 2" pipe , turn it to the right 90+ increase this angle if the pipe siphon falls to "fire" after it starts to cycle (it should take a minute or so). Make sure you have enough water volume entering your GB to fill it in about 8 minutes, from where it normally breaks siphon, (not totally empty).

I take it that you have no swirl filler in your system, media, water and barrels look real dirty.

Check out "Hello from Phoenix AZ..." he's using the 1/2 barrels, just a thought.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________
I HAVE NOT FAILED. I'VE JUST FOUND 10,000 WAYS THAT WON'T WORK. Thomas A Edison

[foodchain]

Okay. Lot's of trial and error all day. Learned a lot on how things work, but not much on why they don't. Phone conversation with Apollo has me trying something tomorrow. I will update it once I find out results.

The idea of using the letter N design instead of M only partially resolved some issues. And created others.

In the morning I will remove the 2" pipe, replace with gutter and try apollo's idea of turning last 90 elbow parallel to the ground.

Barrels are dirty due to taking two years to build this nightmare of a project. Cleaning as I go.