Hello from Northern Idaho

[mayflower]

Hi, my name is MaryAnn and got really interested in aquaponics passing the time with a colicy infant about four years ago. Well, he's four years old now and I think we're finally ready (and have the time) to build something! Before I go sawing barrels and pipes up I would much appreciate any input you've got for me. (See attached drawing).

The plan is for an indoor system using 3, 55gal. bung barrels, and 4in. piping for some grow towers. A barrel is used for a fish tank, sump tank, and two grow beds, with the towers above the grow beds (medala media as the filtering). Obviously, I'm trying to conserve space. The system is designed to be constant flow, and I'm hoping (wondering) if it will grow out about 12lbs. of tilapia fish in the tank.

My biggest question/concern about this design is the overflow from the fish tank to the sump. Will this work? Will it pick up the fish solids? Is there a better way without having the pump in the fish tank? Otherwise I might need to nix the sump and have two, half full fish tanks that are connected together by a pipe or something.
Other question is piping. Are the sizes indicated (1 1/4" connected to the pump, and 2" to drain the growbeds), enough? Too much? Suggestions?
I'm very excited to finally get to do this, and hubby is on board too, (finally)! Any feedback would be very appreciated. Thanks! MaryAnn (Mayflower)

[Apollo]

Welcome, MaryAnn from Northern Idaho , glad that you have joined us. May your journey bring you the knowledge that you seek, put a smile up on your face, create hours of pleasure to stimulate your mind, an a healthier life style for your heart...from Apollo__Phoenix, Arizona.

I can see that you have put a lot of thought and effort into your design. If I'm reading your plans right your talking about a constant flow fill & drain media system and you're using Bell Siphons in both of your GB's. My opinion is when the Bell Siphons "fire" ( one or both ) you will probably over flow your fish tank. My last entry on 3-6-14 in "Pipe Siphon by Apollo" I'm talking about changing my fill and drain media system to a version of a Constant Flow Media System with non-firing Bell Siphons (works similar to a Raft System but with media). This may work for you and you would be able to regulate your water flow into and out of the FT, because it would flow at a constant rate.

I've seen the vertical towers that your referring to...before investing that much money into them take a look at "Got Vertigrow". A lot less money, easier to use and should meet your needs.

If you want to view my set up from start to now, check out “Fire Pit … AP” then “Pipe Siphon by Apollo” and ending with "Got Vertigrow?".

____________________________________
I HAVE NOT FAILED. I'VE JUST FOUND 10,000 WAYS THAT WON'T WORK. Thomas A Edison

[cgindiana]

Welcome mayflower! Your designs resemble some of my final designs at you sound like your at the point I said heck with it, let's get started and see how it goes! I am operating with two 55 gal drums with liners so the drilling wasn't an option for me and without worry one tank would over flow while the other drained I opted for two separate systems. This has it's benefits as well as it's downfalls... More heaters, air diffusers, and tell water pumps instead of one as well as the biggie... The larger the water ecosystem, the more stable it is... Meaning if your patient and set it up allowing ample time to cycle, there are little to no growing pains... However with them separate, I'm able to have a gravel ebb and flow gb as well as raft system tank I plan on using as a nursery for babies... Good luck!! Looks like your ready to get your hands dirty! I'd love to send pics but I haven't read all faqs yet and just learned how to post. I know... Shame on me! Best wishes from southern Indiana!

[davidstcldfl]

Hi MaryAnn, Welcome to the forum...
As Apollo already mentioned, I can see you've spent some time on your design..

I see a few minor things that you may consider changing...

On your supply line 'riser', comming from the water pump, I don't think you'll need the ball vale. Same with the ball valve on the drain line below the media beds. That'll save some money...

On the bell siphons...I don't think the stand pipe needs to be any larger then 3/4 in with a 3/4 x 1 in bushing on top of it. A 1/2 inch stand pipe with a 1/2 x 1 in on top should work. Your media tubs will only have aprox 8 gals of water, considering the displacement of the media.
The 'bell' it's self could be 2 in...and the gravel gaurd 4 inch, like you've drawn.
I suggest not tying the 2 drain lines together...run them seperate to the barrels. Less chance of the siphon not working that way.
I've tried a common drain ..when one siphon was draining, another wouldn't start till the 1st one stopped.

On your media....granite...I'm not sure if it's PH will be ok..? I think I remeber some one saying it effected the water's PH....? You can test it by placing some granite in a glass jar with vinerger and seeing if it bubbles or not.
Lots of folks use...river rocks, which work well..and they might be slightly less weight.

Yes, consider tying the 2 tanks together. Might even cosider a little overkill...and use two- 2inch lines....one at each end of the barrels.(towards the bottom of the barrels)
That way they will have less chance of overflowing like Apollo mentioned. Plus, you'd have more water in the system, which will help to keep it more stable. And you could have fish in both tanks, giving them more elbow room...or should I say 'fin' room...plus, when smaller, the fish will like swimming through the pipes...

On the towers...they work 'very well'. I didn't like trying to pull/slide the filter material in and out.
So..my buddy and I cut ours, where we have a slit on 2 sides. We ran stainless steel, 1/4 inch all thread through the 2 haves to keep them together.
(Don't tell Nate, we butchered his tower design.. :P)

The one thing I don't like about 'any' towers is....the valves tend to plug up, when pumping dirty fish water from the fish tanks. It's just a matter of opening them all the way and then re-setting them to the proper flow..

[eddiemigue]

Welome Mayflower!

I'd suggest that you incorporate some solids filtration after the FT and before the sump. Your current design will macerate and lift all the solids, which will then clog up your towers and gunk up your GB's, especially with tilapia (lots of waste). A simple RFF or swirl filter after the FT would alleviate these issues.

[Apollo]

So now that we have got you going in every which direction...do you still know which way is up?

Not sure that you can run "A simple RFF or swirl filter after the FT would alleviate these issues". Yes, I do think you will need to incorporate some type of a filter into your design. But if it's at the tail end of your water run, the increase restriction as the filter begins to remove the gunk will cause your FT to over flow. I would put your swirl filter right after your pump and before anything else...when or if it starts to restrict your water flow it will just gradually slow your system down. Check of my design "Swirl Filter / Fry Catcher".

I wish more members would redirect others back to the time, place and pictures of their systems. As they say a picture is worth a 1,000 words...it runs both ways.

[mayflower]

Thank-you for such great advice! Having been schooled in Landscape Architecture, it's probably not surprising that I've already made changes to my drawing and will post soon! (I love to draw plans!)

Anyway, I have just a few questions about your recommendations. Apollo, does the pipe siphon work as the drain of a constant flow system or a flood and drain system? I've played around with exterior loop siphons before, (which this seems very similar in concept to me) and they create a flood and drain situation, right? Or does the pipe just dribble out water at the speed the grow bed is filling up? I was intending this to be a constant flood system, especially if I take out the sump. Will this pipe siphon pull the water out all at once or dribble?

I'll have to research the swirl filter some more. I'm not sure how I'd attach it to 2 barrels and then I assume I'd have to put the pump in there. I'm not picturing it. I'll look around.

Everything else, I think I understand! Thank-you so much for your input!!!! MaryAnn

[Apollo]

I'm still kind of new to all of this stuff...not sure of the correct terms or names. Here is my versions of what I think the top three AP set-up's are.

1. A Constant Flow Raft System, has a continuous flow of water into a growth bed full water an a Styrofoam raft that holds the plants.

2. A Constant Flow Flood & Drain, has a continuous flow of water and has media, a Bell Siphon or a Pipe Siphon that start off slowly and the "Fires" to quickly drain water from the GB.

3 A Non-Constant Flood & Drain, has media and uses a timer on the pump to control the water flow.

Your drawing seems to be a Constant Flow Raft System without the use of a Raft. Instead your plants will be grown in media and water 100% of the time. We now just added a 4th way to do AP, to the top three.

"Will this pipe siphon pull the water out all at once or dribble?" Both the Bell and Pipe siphon will dribble at first, then dump the water super fast when working properly. Both can be modified to work without "Firing", that's one of the easiest steps to do.

If you read some of my last entries in "Pipe Siphon by Apollo" I'm working on combine both systems and make Constant Flow Media System with the plants in the water 100% of the time. Water either entering the GB at the bottom and just overflowing a stand pipe, back to the FT. Or with the water entering the GB at the top though an aerator ring and being pulled out at the bottom, though a non-firing Bell or Pipe Siphon (dribble). You can increase the flow of water into the GB and it will increase the flow leaving the GB.

My Swirl Filter is first in line coming out of the pump. If you're not doing a flood & drain from your GB's to your FT. and are using a constant flow, you can control the water flow back to the sump with either larger or more return piping. Water from pump can be diverted between the GB's and the FT, you can then run the return water to your FT though an aerator system. It will not matter how you divert your water to your GB or FT, your returning water will remains constant from the FT back to the Sump.