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  1. #21
    Members dead_sled's Avatar
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    Re: COMM/AP THINK TANK...!

    Quote Originally Posted by David - WI
    If I were considering a 20 acre project I would probably move immediately to Michigan, Minnesota, New York or (possibly) Ohio where it's legal to sell Lake Sturgeon flesh and Lake Sturgeon caviar. http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/Home/To...px?PostID=1590
    Wow! 21-39 years old before they spawn! The system would definitely be seasoned by then! A sturgeon system would be pretty awesome. The tanks would be quite large. I can't wait to see the pictures.
    Less irritating avatar since 02/27/14.

  2. #22
    Members David - WI's Avatar
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    Re: COMM/AP THINK TANK...!

    Quote Originally Posted by dead_sled
    Wow! 21-39 years old before they spawn! The system would definitely be seasoned by then! A sturgeon system would be pretty awesome. The tanks would be quite large. I can't wait to see the pictures.
    If I tried it here in Wisconsin, the pictures would all look a lot like this one:

    It's all about the fish, dude.

  3. #23
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    Re: COMM/AP THINK TANK...!

    http://www.nbcnews.com/health/company-s ... 6C10902022

    JCO.....this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. They have a huge "Organic" label on their package and are headquartered in the US. 99% of the women in the US will not educate themselves enough to know that the infected product came from Mexico........so......if this were a bigger news story and you have a 20 acre commercial AP setup with "Organic" leaf lettuce to sell.......you better be REAL hungry cause you're gonna eat it all. Produce growers have an inside joke......."no need to go to Vegas if you're growing produce".

  4. #24
    Moderator JCO's Avatar
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    Re: COMM/AP THINK TANK...!

    dback, I am very interested in your knowledge about what to grow and what not to grow commercially. I am looking at constructing a 3,000 sq ft green house this winter and hopefully have it ready for the spring and I am struggling with what to grow that I can generate cash from without having to worry about the government.

    I have considered about every veggie you can name. Also house plants, flowers and even Japanese Maples from seed.

    So far most of the things I have come up with seem too specialized and will take an individual interested particularly in that item before it will sell, Japanese Maples for example, thus limiting my ability to sell to a large portion of the population with continuous repeat business.

    So PLEASE enlighten me....US with your knowledge of this malady I...WE are facing. Inquiring Minds Want To Know!
    JCO
    Irish eyes are always smiling but
    • "In the eyes of the world, you are only as good as your last success"
    so never forget
    • "MAN IS ONLY LIMITED BY HIS IMAGINATION"

  5. #25
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    Re: COMM/AP THINK TANK...!

    JCO.....I have thought long and hard about this exact subject for MANY years......unfortunately, still don't have the answer. This is a discussion I would love to participate in however. As I said before, I have always thought a line of herbs would be a possibility.......establish a relationship with a number of 'high end' restaurants or a small produce company and see where that might go. Herbs are (for the most part) 'bullet proof' and organic would be a big selling point to many.

    Another possibility would be growing seedlings for transplant. "Stand" is a major player in ultimate 'yield' on any crop. When a farmer talks about "stand", he is referring to the number of seed that germinated and made it to first leaf. If he has huge portions that did not make it for any reason.....then he says he has a poor "stand". Many farms will contract green houses to grow 'transplants' to plant in the empty spots to improve their 'stand'. Not going to get rich but it's a thought. It takes 4400 seedlings on cantaloupe (depending) at .04 cents per to do an entire acre. That's only $176.00 an acre. Some growers try to push the early (especially) markets with transplants so there is a market there but that is confined to only some crops. Lettuce growers for example don't do that.......they plant heavy and then thin if necessary. I don't know how you would work it out with the GBs to keep them functioning correctly.

    While I think it would be feasible to grow transplants.....there will be lots of headaches......timing is critical, managing GBs would take some real expertise and researching the growers 'mechanization' requirements would all need to be addressed.

    I have always believed a niche market of some sort would be the ticket.....something like a new or 'research' crop like Lesquerella or Guayule possibly. The 'research' guys will sometimes use private green houses when not using Universities or USDA facilities. A crop like 'Lesquerella' would not work as the grower will simply plant several pounds per acre to get the stand and some of it is grown like alfalfa......flooded. Any crop (Lesquerella) grown to completion (fruit or seed) in a green house would by necessity, need to 'not' require pollination unless you are going to hand pollinate it each day. Guayule on the other hand would be a possibility in the southwest as it will all be started in green houses and then transplanted, but the companies I am familiar with have their own facilities.

    I'd love to hear you folks thoughts.

  6. #26
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    Re: COMM/AP THINK TANK...!

    Quote Originally Posted by JCO
    OK, commercial Aquaponics has been cussed and discussed many times here and there on this forum so I thought it was time to put out the challenge to all the members.

    Let's say you have the money to purchase 20 acres of land for this project.

    Here are the questions at hand:-

    1) How important is the location of the Com/AP sys. geographically relative to success?

    2) What style of greenhouse is best suited for a truly large Com/AP sys.?

    3) What sort of heating/cooling system to be used?

    4) Where do you house the fish...inside/outside or a combination of both?

    5) What fish/crustaceans do you raise?

    6) What veggie/s to grow to produce the most profit?

    7) How do you market your products?

    8) Do you shift crops for winter/summer?

    9) How much capitol is needed for an initial start up?

    10) What time frame from start up to first product/s ready for sale?

    11) How many persons needed to accomplish success?

    Please feel free to chime in with more questions but please number them in sequence.

    When you answer a question, please list the number of the question that you are responding to. I know it's being a little restrictive however I am in hopes it will give the discussion more structure.

    As for responses to responses, well we'll just have to do the best we can do to keep it all together.

    I realize some of these question are very general in content but that's where the challenge comes in. It is up to us to figure this out piece by piece.
    I can't comment too much on the list as I have very limited experience with this all including farming. I will comment on:

    #2; I am going to build a greenhouse myself next year and would love some feedback on DIY's.
    #3; I would use solar heat tubes and water storage bins inside the greenhouse for heat or if using concrete and stone underneath the G/H run sufficient piping to transfer the heat from the solar tubes to the "heat sink" under the greenhouse. The storage bins would be the cheapest way to store heat in quantity. As far as cooling is concerned I would think natural ventilation would have to do it, I can't conceive of cooling a glass (or plastic) building with the sun beating down on it. Kinda like cooling the outdoors UNDER A MAGNIFYING GLASS Not that it is not done when in the A/C business I actually had a customer wanting to cool a very large outdoor space under an awning in Ft. Lauderdale. He though had more money than sense and yeah he went through with it. If specialized plantings were to be kept in an insulated building to keep cool now you have to deal with the cost of grow lighting.
    #7; I have had to deal with the buyers of the "big box" stores and they are one PIA to deal with. Don't know unless you are really big if you could afford to do business with them. In many in the warehouses there are fees to "I'll call it store" your product there before it is distributed. I don't know how these perishables would be sold to them (terms) but if there are any guarantees connected you could get killed in returns. Places like Walmart actually like you to pay them to sell your product ... J/K... but almost that bad. Sometimes there are vendors that directly sell produce to the stores as in my case but now we are talking a delivery truck and driver. I would either buy at the market each morning or from the supplier that made his rounds each week. If I was selling I would stick with smaller stores where you can deal directly with the owner or Produce Manager but then it will reduce the amount you can sell. As I have a local small Organic Grocery by me they said they would buy all I had available but they are small and I doubt the volume would be enough to warrant any kind of an investment.

    #12 Another line item to consider is cost per square foot of GB area. Would seem to me without doing any calculations that GB's of any size will require large pumps for both air (compressors) or air pumps, water pumping, fans, and heat for the greenhouse. At todays cost for electricity and fuel that can be a large amount at the end of the year to take into consideration. Solar is a way to go but it is the least efficient of all the modalities and the most costly to set up for the benefit you receive. Been there and done that although I would do again depending on circumstances. Most people do not realize that a 60A solar system is only 5.4A on 120V (if using batteries.) Even if using a grid tied system the benefit you will see in your power bill is not as much as you MAY BE thinking you will get. A 10K system will cost >$50,000 just for parts. Gotta sell plenty of lettuce.
    #13 Approximate yield per planting
    #14 Wholesale cost to the middle man.

  7. #27
    Moderator JCO's Avatar
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    Re: COMM/AP THINK TANK...!

    Great insight and input...I appreciate your knowledge, opinion and forsight on the subject.

    It still all comes back to the fact that large hydroponic systems or huge ones like the one in Az that raises gazillions of pounds of tomatoes a year are operational and showing enough profit to warrant staying in business, it seems to me that since you don't have to buy chemicals to grow the plants, what's holding someone with enough acreage and money back from venturing into the fray?

    Yes, I know you still have to buy the fish food, but you also offset the cost of the fish food with the money from the fish...so basically still no cost there.

    I don't have the bucks or land...all I have is 46+ years of knowledge and experience in the field of Aquaponics and Aquaculture and I am waiting for the other half of the equation to wake up and say let's make this dog hunt.
    JCO
    Irish eyes are always smiling but
    • "In the eyes of the world, you are only as good as your last success"
    so never forget
    • "MAN IS ONLY LIMITED BY HIS IMAGINATION"

  8. #28
    Members Aloha Don's Avatar
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    Re: COMM/AP THINK TANK...!

    I just heard of a new federal guideline for commercial AP....Starting next year they will not be allowing Styrofoam to be used.
    Has anyone else heard this?
    What are thoughts about substitutes?
    Put all excuses aside and remember this: YOU are capable - Zig Ziglar

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