Commercial Aquaponics – Why is it not pervasive?

[jackalope]

I live in South Africa at the moment

What are your ideas for aquaponics?

was waiting for that Q

your points on a system designed for the local environment and capital available are valid

but what if we as a community designed what we think is a good commercial AP system ....... there is vast experience in this forum ... could be fun .... disclaimers would be very NB though

its a funny thing AP we think it is this new technology and a wonder method for farming and dont really want to talk about commercial plans and operations because we think it is this trump card .... so we work in isolation .... but at the end of the day the more commercial AP projects there are the better our understanding the more this will be main stream .....

discussing plans are the first port of call .....

Actually... there's nothing new under the sun... ever hear of the 'hanging gardens of Mexico City'? They were doing AP when the first conquistadors hit... so, no. It isn't new...
However, it isn't 'western' particularly, either... i.e.; it isn't traditional. Traditional farmers can do things to increase yield the bankers understand...

There are some real commercial systems on the market right now. Why aren't there more? Money. The folks that are willing... or that have some experience, haven't been able to get funding.

For the most part, bankers think that traditional is more 'control' able... they're wrong, but they are the ones that make the decisions about the money to float a big operation. We are talking a roughly 1mil. to do an operation that would turn out 1800 lb of fish, and, say 28K produce every six weeks... and do you have an idea the square footage required... even if one uses towers for 'small' leafy greens?? You are looking at mechanics, plumbing, insurance, monitoring, licenses, packaging, transport, rent, power (even if you do renewable-- still have to do the installation...) and training personnel.

So, say, you need 1.5 mil to start, and roughly six weeks to get cycled... another six weeks to start producing greens... then 4-6 months before you have sale-able fruit or veg... and at least 8 months to have sale-able fish.

Once you are running, the pay-back would probably exceed expectations... expansion would be able to go to the roof tops, {my suggestion was to utilize empty grocery stores... they already have a separate meat section that would work for processing... loading docks, water, a/c, and the capacity to open up more 'window space' so one could avoid grow lights} and you'd be so incredibly 'low carbon' for the neighborhood you are located in...

Which brings me to my next issue-- and may actually be a part of our problem moving from small to commercial scale. We would supplant the local groceries. They may be chains, but they ain't gonna be happy about a system that supplants their carbon-heavy model. They are in place, they have clout in the community... and would not look fondly upon our endeavor.

Just my $.02.

Excellent observation and analysis

In my opinion, it's always the bankers and/or the government bureaucrats that plug up everything for the little guy with their rules and regulations, so when an outfit with the big bucks decides to get into the business, he's got no competition from the many little guys that beat him to it! I know that sounds paranoid, but after 50 years of trying to get many businesses off the ground on a shoe string, I've seen a lot of my ideas gobbled up by someone else, their only advantage was the money, not the know-how, so some of them didn't survive My plan is to start out small, build up the clientele, and work up from there - I'll never tell a banker or investor my ideas and plans again

[jackalope]

Here is an article about setting up a commercial fish farm and the associated costs, etc. as well as dealing with the difficulties of convincing a banker to let loose of some of the money he gets to loan out at exhorbitant interest rates. This article was written for North Dakota in 2004 and could possibly give you some guidance as you go forward in a venture ..... should that be your intent - so when you read the costs, expenses, and other figures, keep in mind that according to the Social Security Administration website, we who are on SS recieved no COLA's (cost of living adjustments) in 2010 and 2011 - IOW, according to the Obama Administration the cost of living did not rise between Feb 2009 and Jan 2011 . Even leaving those two years at a 0% increase, from 2004 to 2013 there has been a 25.6% increase in the cost of living here in the USA So if you intend to start up a fish farm, be sure to take those costs of living increases in you own home area into account when you put a business plan together

Farming Tilapia 01 March 2004 Clik
History of Automatic Cost-Of-Living Adjustments Clik

[15mules]

Ok, I have to admit, I am new to this forum and this thread is what got me to join.
This has been my question for months.
If Aqauponics is so good, then why is there no one doing it commercially. I have searched the internet for successful commercial operations, and they are few and far between?
The comments so far in this thread make a lot of sense. Lack of financial investment! But there has been large operations put in, with millions in investment capital, that have gone bankrupt? Now, I have made the same conclusions many of you have. The systems they invested in were doomed for failure, before they started in most cases, because of poorly planned systems, or poorly developed markets.
Are we really in the beginning stages of the next big thing in agriculture, AP??
Are we going to be looking back in 10 years and see the current development in AP technology as the beginnings of a farming revolution? Or are we going to look back and see this period as a passing fad in the new GREEN wishful thinking, where a few made millions selling smoke and mirrors to the many?
The point has been made that a good backyard system, is not going to be the same system as a good commercial system. This does seem somewhat correct to me, with some exceptions. The backyard "Hobby" gardener has no expectation of a ROI, in many cases, because it is a small system, he also has no concern on how efficient it is (production, electrical consumtion, building cost) Who cares it is a hobby right. Commercially, this just cannot work, all these factors matter.
The fact is all these efficiencies should matter to everyone wanting to further AP as a legitimate farming method.

My research tells me that my state University studies (Arkansas) rates aquaculture as a risky business proposal. They rate AP as an unproven business model. They rate Tilapia as a low profit fish market.
To be honest, the numbers on my paper says there is great risk in a commercial AP business. My numbers for my local market also says there is not a huge profit for a local commercial AP business. Then my other side, my American "I can do it" side kicks in and I say. Yes, But others made mistakes and I can do better.
I have had several different small businesses over the years and the same laws govern them all.
Do you have a market for the service you are offering?
What is the actual cost of the service of are offering?
Will your client pay enough for your service to leave a profit?
The biggest mistake I think people make is to err on the side of frugality. Your business WILL cost more than you think to start and you will need capital longer than you thought to run it, until a profit starts to come in.The second biggest mistake I have seen people make in a service business is not charging enough. That is right, not charging enough! Americans want the best, they want to think they are getting a premium product. A person must educate their client on why their product is worth more, even though the same product is available cheaper. You will lose some clients, but the ones you keep will be good ones. Now make no mistake, you have to provide a premium product, but in the case of AP produce I do not think that is a problem.
I attended Horseshoeing school in Oklahoma, years ago. The teacher told me, "Do not take offense" but, "You do not want to work for people like you, you want to work for people with money" I went home and charged more than others, but I provided a premium service and I had clients, but first I had to educate them on why my service was worth more. I think this is lacking in AP. AP is new and the consumer does not yet see the products as premium products because they have not been educated as to the benefits.
Remember to you AP is not Rocket Science. To you growing produce is not Rocket Science, but to the average consumer with no background in farming, it is Rocket Science. Convince them you are the best astronaut around with the best Rocket ship and you have a client. ( yes you will have to prove it, by providing them with a ride to the moon, figuratively speaking that is)
Ok, I am done with my first post, thanks for listening.

[urbanfarmer]

15mules welcome to the fray!

The majority of new APers are learning about agriculture for the first time. Combine that with a complete misunderstanding of the business sciences, and you have a disaster waiting to happen in any attempted commercial venture. It is absolutely possible to build a successful business based off AP. You can't run before you learn to walk, at least not where I come from (A planet called Earth).

However, it is worth pointing out that any business that produces a resource by harvesting the power of the Sun should be profitable. Anyone serious enough to start a business or rely on AP for their livelihood should be willing to put in the serious effort into preparing for it.

[JCO]

OK 15mules, somehow I missed your first post, however you have the answers to a successful commercial Aquaponics operation:-

state University studies (Arkansas) rates aquaculture as a risky business proposal. They rate AP as an unproven business model. They rate Tilapia as a low profit fish market.

AP is an unproven business model and I would say mainly because the people with the knowledge to accomplish it don't have the means $$$$$.$$ to put it into operation.

Also Tilapia are a low profit fish market. That is a complete fact. As long as China is the world's largest producer of Tilapia and as long as America allows them to ship their product (Tilapia Fillets) to our shores, no one in America will ever be able to compete with them.

I have had several different small businesses over the years and the same laws govern them all.

You and me both. In fact just like you now, I use to be a licensed firearms dealer back in the 70s LONE PINE SPORTING GOODS
Additionally, I got my first merit badge in the Boy Scouts at the age of 10. It was in leather works and I still do leather today. I have created about everything you could do with leather from shoes, purses to a full blown roping saddle with no pattern.

I have started and successfully run more than one business in the past, but when the real estate bust came, like so many, I didn't see the writing on the wall, I lost everything. Now I have no way of rebounding until I can find a vehicle (business not auto) to get me healthy again.

Do you have a market for the service you are offering?

You can jump out and start a commercial system raising whatever, tomatoes, eggplants...makes no difference. If you don't have a market for your product, you'll be feeding it to the BSF to keep it from stinking up your yard.

What is the actual cost of the service of are offering?

In getting started, you must know what it's going to cost and most of all when you build, don't build with a small operation in mind. All construction plans should be geared toward easily adding to, building on, expanding with little to no interruption of your operation. Never build a "TEST COMMERCIAL SYSTEM". A test system mean you are possibly expecting a failure and therefore, you are only going to test it.

Know your "Sh*t" and get your ducks in a row and start off with success in mind or go home.

Will your client pay enough for your service to leave a profit?

Here again we go back to marketing. This is an item you need to establish in the beginning, not after you've raised a 1,000 bushels of tomatoes etc before you decide on how much you will need to charge to make a profit and OH yes, will the market pay the price?

Remember, if your are raising food stuffs to sell to the public either directly or indirectly through grocery stores, there will be tons of red tape, hoops to jump through and continuous irritating government inspections to put up with done by people who would just as soon you would fail so they wouldn't have to actually work for their money.

Now, can it be done. The answer is quite simply "YES". When will it be done, like Atlas said, "Give me a place to stand and I can lift the world" or something like that.

In other words, give me the cash and I can show you how it's done.

Aquaponics isn't rocket science. It's the marketing of the product that is where the actual work comes in. Convincing the world that Aquaponically grown fish & veggies, raised "FREE OF ALL CHEMICALS" is far more healthy and better for you and your loved ones than organic or any other form of food farming.

Name recognition is the key:- XEROX (no longer in business but people still make Xerox copies), IBM, FORD, CHEVROLET.

Develop a Brand and promote your BRAND and "CHEMICAL FREE" grown fish and vegetables and you could be the next Campbell Soup, Heinz, Del Monte. Sorry to quote big names, but you get my gist.

WHAT TO DO???

I HAVE 46 (SOON TO BE 47) YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN AQUACULTURE, AQUAPONICS AND RAISING VEGETABLES AND OTHER PLANTS.

GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I'LL SHOW YOU HOW IT'S DONE

[Aloha Don]

Now that is motivational!!!
I'm Ready JCO......Let's go get em!!!

[winger4647]

Okay! Where do you want to start?

over 100 views, is anyone else going to participate??

Be glad to participate, my background in heating/cooling and solar

[JCO]

The subject ... though very viable...has pretty well run its course... MONEY TALKS AND BULLSH*T stands around wishing they were able to "TALK"..!

No Shoes, No Shirt..... NO SERVICE...

[winger4647]

The subject ... though very viable...has pretty well run its course... MONEY TALKS AND BULLSH*T stands around wishing they were able to "TALK"..!

No Shoes, No Shirt..... NO SERVICE...

too bad, would have been interesting to see where many "heads" would take a project. Used to do that in business and usually turned out very positive. I digress!

[JCO]

I agree and that's what I was hoping....kind of an AP "THINK TANK" with many minds, with many ideas coming together to make a project viable.