Trave Mineral Question

[commander]

I was showing off my blue barrel set up to a friend who has a background in agronomy and he asked some questions I couldn't answer. One of them that really stuck with is this; "What about trace minerals. How are they maintained in the system with nothing but the bacteria and the fish to supply nutrients to the plants." His concern is that when the plants consume the trace minerals in the water, there is no way for them to be replenished in amounts big enough to sustain growth.

[Bioritize]

I plan to make my own fish food soon and I was thinking of adding asomite and rock dust to the fish food.

[Eleven11]

You can add liquid trace minerals. I used a product from SeaChem called Flourish.

Total Nitrogen 0.07%
Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01%
Soluble Potash 0.37%
Calcium (Ca) 0.14%
Magnesium (Mg) 0.11%
Sulfur (S) 0.2773%
Boron (B) 0.009%
Chlorine (Cl) 1.15%
Cobalt (Co) 0.0004%
Copper (Cu) 0.0001%
Iron (Fe) 0.32%
Manganese (Mn) 0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Sodium (Na) 0.13%
Zinc (Zn) 0.0007%

[urbanfarmer]

I was showing off my blue barrel set up to a friend who has a background in agronomy and he asked some questions I couldn't answer. One of them that really stuck with is this; "What about trace minerals. How are they maintained in the system with nothing but the bacteria and the fish to supply nutrients to the plants." His concern is that when the plants consume the trace minerals in the water, there is no way for them to be replenished in amounts big enough to sustain growth.

Well, for starters I would like to point out they are called trace minerals for a reason... they are in trace amounts, which scientifically denotes they are in extremely minute quantities.

Second, it's not an entirely closed system. There is an input, fish food, rocks for gravel, random dust from the wind, etc. People of course add additional things into their system as mentioned here, but I feel it is not needed for a properly managed system.

Third, since we constantly have to top off our system, we are putting water into it. Some of us use well water, some use city water... and they both contain trace minerals as well; so, they are constantly being added into the system.

As a scientist, I also want to scream when someone with a scientific background says "with nothing but the bacteria" as any scientist in this field knows the bacteria, in fact, "create" the majority of nutrients for the plants.

*BIG SIGH*

I could go on, but I think that's what you were looking for?

[commander]

UF, Thanks, that is pretty much what I was looking for. I am not a scientist. My background is in business and finance. Common sense told me that I was missing something but I wasn't sure what or where. Thanks again to everyone for your input and help.

[Basil1]

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Flourish Excel
Section I: MANUFACTURER’S NAME, ADDRESS, AND CONTACT INFORMATION
Seachem Laboratories, Inc. Emergency Telephone Number: 706-343-6060
1000 Seachem Drive Telephone Number for Information: 706-343-6060
Madison, GA 30650 Date Prepared: 28 September 2009
SECTION II: CHEMICAL INGREDIENTS/IDENTITY INFORMATION
Components (Chemical Identity; Common Names(s)) OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV Other Limits
Aqueous solution of polycycloglutaracetal ND ND NA
SECTION III: PHYSICAL/CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Boiling Point 100o C Specific Gravity (H2O = 1) 1.00
Vapor Pressure (mm Hg) 23.8@25o C Melting Point NA
Vapor Density (AIR = 1) <1 H2O Evaporation Rate (Butyl Acetate = 1) 0.3
Solubility in Water Soluble Appearance and Odor Clear, slightly blue
liquid, faint sweet
odor
SECTION IV: FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA
Flash Point (Method Used) NA
Flammable Limits NA
LEL NA
UEL NA
Extinguishing Media NA
Special Fire Fighting Procedures NA
Unusual Fire and Explosion Hazards NA
SECTION V: REACTIVITY DATA
Stability Stable under normal conditions of use
Conditions to Avoid None
Incompatibility (Materials to Avoid) None
Hazardous Decomposition or Byproducts Carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide
Hazardous Polymerization Will Not Occur
Polymerization Conditions to Avoid Temperatures above 100o C
2
SECTION VI: HEALTH HAZARD DATA
Route(s) of Entry: Inhalation, Skin, Eyes, Ingestion
Health Hazards (Acute): Inhalation-Irritation to respiratory tract; Skin-Itching, pain; Eyes-Conjunctivitis;
Ingestion-Moderately toxic
Carcinogenicity: NA
Signs and Symptoms of Exposure: Inhalation-Stinging sensation in nose or throat, possible bleeding from
the nose, coughing, difficulty with breathing; Skin-Itching, redness, swelling, pain; Eyes-Redness,
swelling, discharge; Ingestion-Irritation of digestive tract, pain, nausea, vomiting
Medical Conditions Generally Aggravated by Exposure: Dermatitis, asthma, inflammatory or fibrotic
pulmonary disease
Emergency and First Aid Procedures: Inhalation-Remove to fresh air; Skin-Remove contaminated
clothing, wash with soap and water; Eyes-Flush with water for at least 15 minutes and seek medical
attention; Ingestion-DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING, do not give water to drink, seek medical help
immediately. NOTE TO PHYSICIAN-Due to the moderately irritating or corrosive nature of the material,
and the potential for lung injury from material aspirated during vomiting, the stomach should be
evacuated carefully, with a method least likely to cause aspiration (e.g., gastric lavage after endotracheal
intubation.)
SECTION VII: PRECAUTIONS FOR SAFE HANDLING AND USE
Steps to Be Taken in Case Material is Released or Spilled: Dilute with large quantities of water and flush
to drain.
Waste Disposal Method: Consistent with local, state, and Federal regulations.
Precautions to Be Taken in Handling and Storing: Store tightly sealed.
Other Precautions: Avoid eye contact
SECTION VIII: CONTROL MEASURES
Respiratory Protection NA
Ventilation Local Exhaust, Mechanical Ventilation
Protective Gloves Recommended
Eye Protection Required
Other Protective Clothing or Equipment NA
Work/Hygienic Practices Good house keeping practices


Also states on the bottle, for aquarium use only. Do not eat, drink or get in eyes.

[keith_r]

personally i wouldn't use "flourish" or very many other "additives" in an AP system.. there a very few exceptions..seasol or maxicrop being one of the main ones..and now that my barrels have been running for 18 months in my basement, i haven't added anything besides shellgrit (for ph) and eggshells for several months..currently fighting another aphid outbreak, and will order some more ladybugs soon.. nematodes will take care of fungus gnats
a mature system won't need additives anyways, as long as you provide good water, and good food

[Eleven11]

I added the trace minerals at first because the system was new and I was having problems with pale yellowing leaves and stunted growth. No more problems there though. Everything is growing like crazy now.

[jared.plowman]

I feel like I am having the same issue. I have an amazing grow light (for the size of the system) my nitrates are high and I have tons of material in the FT that goes up to the GBs (no filter on my pump). My Tomatoes and Basil are doing amazing, but my Kale and Cilantro aren't growing at all, the leaves also dry up and are turning yellow. I am in a continual struggle to lower the pH, currently using lemon juice to prepare water before adding.

pH ~ 7.4
Ammonia ~ 0ppm
Nitrites ~ 0ppm
Nitrates ~ >40ppm

Does anyone think trave (jk) minerals are required here? The system has been running for a few months now.

I have photo's of the system on my facebook profile http://www.facebook.com/plowmanjared

Thanks all!

[urbanfarmer]

I don't see pictures of the plants with the problems. Take a close up of the plants in question and I can give you a limited diagnosis.