Frustration with low quality equipment

[bsfman]

I own two API test kits. The chemicals seem to work the same as far as coloring the samples, but the the damned color charts are not even CLOSE to matching each other! Which one to believe? We're talking as much as 2ppm discrepancy in ammonia and nitrites according to the charts for a given color in the test tubes. This could be critical for some people! Why don't they hire some decent printers capable of actually matching colors on production runs?

Likewise with thermometers. I now own 7 of 'em. Two are "lab quality" and they are within 0.25 degrees C of each other which is, I suppose, acceptable. I own 3 pool thermometers. Placed in the same water, they show a 12 degree F temp range! WTF? I just bought two digital thermometers of identical make, model, manufacturer. They don't even agree with each other (one degree F off). They also register 2 to 3 degrees F higher than the average of the two lab thermometers.

Production quality control is evidently a thing of the past. Very frustrating for the consumer when you're trying to be diligent on such things as monitoring water quality!

Sorry for the rant. Just had to get that off my chest.

[urbanfarmer]

The cheap chemical API test kits are for hobbyists not researchers. I can see why this bothers you as it does me, but as a tool it serves its purpose. You just need the right tool for the right job.

As far as the temperature, that would bother me. Test it against the known physical properties of say... water? Use freezing and boiling and use distilled water. You can't go wrong. it's either 0 C or 100 C and then you will know which one is off for sure.

[davidstcldfl]

On a side note, in regards to temps.....I understand the desire to use metric in science since it's easier to use, due to the 10's base.
However, IMO.....In keeping track of temp changes....good old fahrenheit has almost twice the graduations between freezing and boiling. So any changes could be (are) more accurately tracked.

[foodchain]

Why track them? Tracking them provides you data on trends and cycles. If you are using a heater in the water, the thermostat there maintains a more or less constant temp. If you are doing this outside, as in my case...you are relying on the weather. In which case you utilize the appropriate species of plants, fish accordingly. Don't get me wrong. Data is important in a lot of things. But documenting water temp trends, especially in a heated system....just doesn't make sense to me.

I am not trying to be insulting or patronizing. I legitametly don't understand this. You are relying on a purchased thermostat to keep that temp. So depending on your water volume, you really aren't going to see much of a swing in degrees the greater the volume, the more stable it is. Which from either a fish or plant stand point, is more than tolerable, if not desirable.

Perhaps I am just proving my own ignorance.

[bsfman]

Why track them? Tracking them provides you data on trends and cycles. If you are using a heater in the water, the thermostat there maintains a more or less constant temp. If you are doing this outside, as in my case...you are relying on the weather. In which case you utilize the appropriate species of plants, fish accordingly. Don't get me wrong. Data is important in a lot of things. But documenting water temp trends, especially in a heated system....just doesn't make sense to me.

I am not trying to be insulting or patronizing. I legitametly don't understand this. You are relying on a purchased thermostat to keep that temp. So depending on your water volume, you really aren't going to see much of a swing in degrees the greater the volume, the more stable it is. Which from either a fish or plant stand point, is more than tolerable, if not desirable.

Perhaps I am just proving my own ignorance.

Not true that part about constant temp! Not at all!

My systems are all outdoor systems. I have one system heated with immersion heaters, one system heated via a greenhouse tent, and one system unheated. In the past 24 hours, my heated system has gone from a high of 78F to a low of 68F. My greenhouse system has gone from a high of 76F to a low of 67F. My unheated system has gone from a high of 79F to a low of 49F. Ambient temps in the past 24 hours have ranged from 85F to 46F. Why track? Well, because I need to know each systems response to swings in ambient temperatures. The water temp can affect the capacity of the bacteria to do their nitrification thing and the water temps can affect the survivability of my tilapia. I need to track how much warmer than ambient temps my water stays so as to adjust feeding rates and to know when to apply drastic warming measures when the occasional cold snap hits. Even here in south Florida, we have the occasional (rare, but not unheard of) morning frost. If I track temp data, I can easily compute each systems likely low water temp based on the forecast ambient lows and take appropriate precautionary measure if needed.

[foodchain]

Are the swings partially accounted for with your heating type? In one system, I use the submersible heaters, and those are more or less constant. I leave them on year round. When ambient temp raises water temp, the heater appears not to turn on. Then when it drops in fall/winter it pretty much stays on.

If you run a fish species for instance, that tolerates your climatic swings...for instance the bluegill is this not better than trying to modify ones environment or in this case the water column to what you need? I ran into this problem with terrestrial plants. Trying to force something to grow, where it doesn't like it. Sometimes it worked, but it was always more work than I got back. On an extreme level though, this is why you don't see Central Americans trying to raise trout or pike, and you don't see much Tilapia in Alaska. It's alot of work for what you get back.

Even my Tilapia tolerate cold temps for brief periods of time. Southern TX, all around San Antonio the state has stocked the rivers with Tilapia, and they survive year round. But they don't move further north due to the cold. My Moz. aren't supposed to tolerate temps below 55 degrees very well according to a great deal of data I have read including the advice of the hatchery I got them from. However, I don't see a real slow down in behavior or reduction in appetite till about 45 degrees. At this point though....it's on or off. At 46-47 they are fine, hits 45 and that's it. For whatever reason I don't see a gradual tapering off, just on or off. But I am getting off topic.

I need to know the range of my outdoor temps in comparison to calander dates, this tells me when I should pull Tilapia from the outdoors, or risk total loss. Within a week or two tops our weather is spot on. My first year was spent daily checking temps and weather reports. After that it didn't matter. My ponds are in the ground and this insulates the water, they are 4ft deep, this helps too. At 6500 gallons, it takes a bit of time for the whole system to drop a few degrees, so when we have one or two nights of cold temps, it's managable as the days warm up quickly, and with the black liners it helps too.

I know, when to pull and when to release back out now by the calander. When it gets close, I check temps with thermometer, but it's not logs and logs of recorded data. It's 3-4 days at the same times for consistancy checking temps.
IF we get a surprise cold spell, it's usually a one day or one night deal and I see little or no ill effects.

Might just be my fish, but they seem to be hard to kill....or they are breeding and growing fast enough that any initial losses are recovered quickly.

[bsfman]

Are the swings partially accounted for with your heating type? In one system, I use the submersible heaters, and those are more or less constant. I leave them on year round. When ambient temp raises water temp, the heater appears not to turn on. Then when it drops in fall/winter it pretty much stays on.

If you run a fish species for instance, that tolerates your climatic swings...for instance the bluegill is this not better than trying to modify ones environment or in this case the water column to what you need? I ran into this problem with terrestrial plants. Trying to force something to grow, where it doesn't like it. Sometimes it worked, but it was always more work than I got back. On an extreme level though, this is why you don't see Central Americans trying to raise trout or pike, and you don't see much Tilapia in Alaska. It's alot of work for what you get back.

Even my Tilapia tolerate cold temps for brief periods of time. Southern TX, all around San Antonio the state has stocked the rivers with Tilapia, and they survive year round. But they don't move further north due to the cold. My Moz. aren't supposed to tolerate temps below 55 degrees very well according to a great deal of data I have read including the advice of the hatchery I got them from. However, I don't see a real slow down in behavior or reduction in appetite till about 45 degrees. At this point though....it's on or off. At 46-47 they are fine, hits 45 and that's it. For whatever reason I don't see a gradual tapering off, just on or off. But I am getting off topic.

I need to know the range of my outdoor temps in comparison to calander dates, this tells me when I should pull Tilapia from the outdoors, or risk total loss. Within a week or two tops our weather is spot on. My first year was spent daily checking temps and weather reports. After that it didn't matter. My ponds are in the ground and this insulates the water, they are 4ft deep, this helps too. At 6500 gallons, it takes a bit of time for the whole system to drop a few degrees, so when we have one or two nights of cold temps, it's managable as the days warm up quickly, and with the black liners it helps too.

I know, when to pull and when to release back out now by the calander. When it gets close, I check temps with thermometer, but it's not logs and logs of recorded data. It's 3-4 days at the same times for consistancy checking temps.
IF we get a surprise cold spell, it's usually a one day or one night deal and I see little or no ill effects.

Might just be my fish, but they seem to be hard to kill....or they are breeding and growing fast enough that any initial losses are recovered quickly.

My systems management techniques seem to be working just fine for me, my fish, and my plants so far. Obviously, each of us have unique aquaponics systems and unique local climate and we set our practices accordingly. I have three systems and I manage each of them differently. The only "right" way or "wrong" way to do it is determined by what works, or what doesn't work for any given system.

[foodchain]

I didn't mean that as an attack or anything like that. Just trying to understand the logic.
Need to make sure I am not doing something wrong...I am sure I am somewhere, but trying to minimize the issues.

I really hope I didn't step on any toes.

[urbanfarmer]

There are many factors affected by temperature including, but not limited to, dissolved oxygen, toxic concentration of ammonia and nitrite, biological activity like rate nitrification, growth rate of fish, growth rate of plants, etc.

@David depends on your instrument, a digital thermometer would simply display decimal points, but anything graduated may have a difference given the ease of reading the number, i see your point though, but I convert it all in my head anyway so makes no difference to me