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  1. #31
    Members foodchain's Avatar
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    True, goldfish especially any of the fancier breeds can only tolerate that stuff for short periods of time. Usually meant for parasite control or treatment. Excellent for anchorworm. However, my experience has been that adding SOME salt especially when breeding or with incubation works in favor of higher hatchings and lower mortality. Again, I can't prove that it's the salt, there's too many variables at play. But I believe that some is better than none...as long as you plant appropriately for whatever concentration you use. I know my peach trees, orange tree, and apples like a LITTLE salt when we move them....seems to eliviate leaf drop and such. But I have no measurements for this. For those I measure by the handfull....I know not very scientific.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  2. #32
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Quote Originally Posted by foodchain
    You have to remember smaller fish are far more sensitive than larger fish to water quality and changes.
    Yes, the salt and increased DO is the cure for brown blood disease. Lowering your temp in theory would allow your water to hold more DO. Warmer the water the less it holds. It also slows down the metabolism of the fish, they will eat less, poop less. The salt does a lot of different things, all good ones for them. Not gonna get into all that. IF you intend to do 20-30% water changes, I wouldn't worry too much about salting again, unless meant as a preventative, but space these water changes out. The fish have to get used to the new concentrations every time. The idea is to dillute it back out, so the plants will like the water again. Salt will not evaporate, so as the water evaporates the water will slowly get saltier, you have a very very very low concentration. So not much of a concern but none the less a concept you need to understand if ever put in this position again. NO SUDDEN CHANGES. Which, if you are going to keep fish long term you will more than likely have this run in again at some point. But now you know how to fix it. The purpose of this was to buy your filter time to build up the bacteria. That's it. So, if you start doing small water changes, it will dillute out both the salt, and the nitrates and will ease the fish back into a more 'normal' for lack of better terms water. Salt in system is not a bad thing though, as long as plants can tolerate it. Some folks keep it in there all the time. I don't as my strawberries don't like it....at all. But my wintering over tanks get salted. Keep the aeration up, and the temp down and really light feedings...the more you feed, the more they mess, the higher the pollution in the system which you are trying to compensate for now. It's a cycle. A big circle called the nitrogen cycle, you have to allow the bacteria to build, and break down the pollutants that the fish, fish waste, and what not build up. Maybe overally simplified here. But that's the basics. Studies have proven though, and yes I can find the PDF on this too if anyone needs it, that prolonged exposure to brown blood disease has negative effects on fertility. So the faster you get it fixed, and the faster you understand the WHY's behind it the better off your goona be.
    I only wish I was a fish Jesus. I know what I know, cuz I have killed thousands of fish in making mistakes, and in testing out the WHY's, How Come's, and What does this do? Ideas that I have had. There's lots of data available online, but it only goes as far as someone has documented. I am not a biologist, but I have volumes of marine biology and fisheries texts. Some is dated, and I don't know all the scientific processes and terms. But I have learned you learn far more by actually doing it, putting the hands on, and losing a few....than from the book. Remember too, just cus someone tells you something, or you read it online doesn't mean it's true or real. ALWAYS do more research, google, etc to verify. If you see the same answer in enough places then you start having a direction. I am not saying anything bad about anyone, or anything like that. Just saying it's your money, your fish....always verify. That's why I told you it was brown blood disease upfront, so that you could google the treatments for it. There's a lot of data out on this.
    (as I mentioned previous) methemoglobinemia = brown blood disease = nitrite bonding with hemoglobin = fish "drowning"

    It's one thing to discuss fish in aquaculture, but it's another to give sound advice regarding treatments in aquaponic systems. As I mentioned before as well, what about the plants? I hope I'm getting my numbers right, but the vast majority of plants do not do well passed 6-8 ppt of dissolved solids (TDS). So, having 4000 ppm salt = 4 ppt salt = having some plants die on you. You can always try it, but how much salt are in your tanks and what are you growing?

    I had a discussion with the head horticulturalist at Disney for their aquaponic system, and they will not exceed (roughly) 50 ppm sodium in their solution (water). According to their experience, it burns up the plants or makes them grow poorly with signs of distress. Of course, this is species specific, but generally for most cultivated species of plants, this is true.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some things in science have been researched and experimented on thousands of times and some things only a few dozen. As time goes on, the few dozen turns into hundreds, and so on. That is what being a good scientist/researcher is all about. However, I do understand your perspective. Google is just a search engine. It's up to you to determine the source. Reading an article at http://www.WeSellAquaticSalt.com is probably not going to give you an objective perspective. I prefer to read actual research, books that are simply compiled research, or textbooks on the subject (not REGULAR books, textbooks). I of course read "regular" books on the subjects as well, but I take everything with a grain of salt and check their references if something doesn't match up with my scientific knowledge.

    With that said, WELCOME TO THE FORUM! You will do just fine here. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. LEARN. SHARE. LEARN MORE BY SHARING.


  3. #33
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    I am sorry. I thought he said there was NO plants in the system. Did I miss read?
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  4. #34
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Quote Originally Posted by foodchain
    I am sorry. I thought he said there was NO plants in the system. Did I miss read?
    The title of the thread implies differently...

    Don't worry, I do that all the time. I misread and then post on something that is completely irrelevant!!!

  5. #35
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Okay. I screwed up...."My tilapia are starting to suffer and no matter how many water changes I do I can't seem to get my Nitrites down. I have peas, beans, yellow peppers and lettuce growing (14 plants) and duckweed.

    I have recently increased the amount of feed they're getting because they're approaching 4 inches. "
    But in going back and rereading it, I think I found a MAJOR contributing factor to what is causing this....the increased feed.

    To answer your previous posts, I don't grow anything off the salted tanks during winter. I bring the tilapia in for wintering over, and overstock them in 330 gallon tanks for the winter (+/- 2 months) Then start moving them back outside. The catfish, sunfish, bass, etc stay outside year round. My prawns are harvested end of every summer, and I purchase post larvae or juvies in early spring. They are a 4-5 month crop for me. Hope that clarifies.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  6. #36
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    I really gotta slow down. I know what I mean to say, but in rereading this series of posts I am coming off as blooming idiot. Maybe I just need to have some quiet time.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  7. #37
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Quote Originally Posted by foodchain
    I really gotta slow down. I know what I mean to say, but in rereading this series of posts I am coming off as blooming idiot. Maybe I just need to have some quiet time.


    No not at all, it's exciting to come share your information, but you have to definitely think on how to present it. I think that's the one skill that is most important on the forum (and I'm still learning and screwing it up), but you will get the hang of it!

    Also realize, any "mistakes" like that will hopefully be caught by someone else and then it can become a learning experience for EVERYONE that reads the post. A lot of "basic" information is repeated over and over on the forum, but people don't sit there and read through everything anyway; so, that's not a BAD thing.

    Try having some quiet time before you post that way everything has a chance to settle down in your mind. Sometimes, re-read the post you are replying to before you post as well. In writing, we get off track!

  8. #38
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    HA...there's a new thread. Loose Canon 101.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  9. #39
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Quote Originally Posted by foodchain
    HA...there's a new thread. Loose Canon 101.
    Been there, done that, got the t-shirt my friend!

  10. #40
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    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Now I do know that peas/beans are in the legume family I think it is, and I read somewhere I think it was in an old gardening book from sunset gardens that those are used for improving the soil as they put nitrogen and stuff back into the soil.....I wonder if this has any measurable impacts on AP since the purpose is to pull it out rather than put it back? Beans here are super easy to grow, and grow just about everywhere down here in TX. I am sure that helps with them being a good choice for AP, but I don't know how much of this is myth vs reality. Alfalfa is supposed to improve soil too, but can have massive root system. I think I am going to expand my water kit and start taking more readings just to see what's going on at different parts of the day. After all, isn't that how they found out DO drops off to it's lowest point at somewhere around 3AM-5AM? Something like that, it was super early morning, like predawn, and all the DO levels in ponds, lakes, etc drop dramatically. I think I saw that in Southern Region Aquaculture Association PDF's. I can probably find it. Just escapes me at the moment.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

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