Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 54
  1. #1
    Members
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Bentleyville, PA
    Posts
    9

    Peas and Nitrites

    Does anyone know if growing peas and other nitrogen fixing plants such as beans affect nitrite levels? My system is two months old and I'm having issues with unreadable nitrite levels. Last test: Ammonia 0, Nitrite > 5, Nitrate 160. Temp 82 and pH 7.8.

    My tilapia are starting to suffer and no matter how many water changes I do I can't seem to get my Nitrites down. I have peas, beans, yellow peppers and lettuce growing (14 plants) and duckweed.

    I have recently increased the amount of feed they're getting because they're approaching 4 inches.

    Any advice?
    All men are equal before fish.
    Herbert Hoover

  2. #2
    Members foodchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    611

    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Epsom salt eleviates stress in Tilapia from this. Not sure if peas will tolerate it though. Sounds like your system isn't aged enough....allowing the bacteria to build up. Kind of like new tank syndrome. I actually have the MAX tolerances recommended for treatment somewhere. I have exceeded them, but only in isolated tests to check salination tolerances. If I can find it the dose, I will post it. Until then, google brown blood disease and nitrate toxicity. Oddly enough I just concluded an experiment on just this...while I did shut it down prematuraly due to mortality rates I did learn a lot. So those deaths were not in vane. Trust me on the salts. NOT iodized. Use kosher, sea salt, epsom salt....I even used some reef salt left over from my fraggin projects. Turn up your air pumps. Scrap the small air stones and buy the bubble wall type with the finer bubbles. Try turning your temp down a little if nothing else works. Cooler temps hold more DO than higher temps. As long as change is gradual your fish should be okay. They don't like sudden changes of any kind. Best of Luck.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  3. #3
    Members foodchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    611

    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Here's the dosing I have found: "Did some research. Max salt dosing for increase of O2 intake, and minimize nitrate, amonia issues max salt dose is 1/2 ounce/gallon. The higher doses are more for treatment than prevention."
    Have a friend double check your conversions if you are using a larger system. My friends suck at math, so I bought a digital scale from Harbor Freight and had a converter built in. I prefer to use Epsom salt, as it's cheap. I treated a 330 gallon volume tank, and saw visible relief of stress in minutes....no exageration.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  4. #4
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zone 9b
    Posts
    2,294

    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Quote Originally Posted by foodchain
    Epsom salt eleviates stress in Tilapia from this. Not sure if peas will tolerate it though. Sounds like your system isn't aged enough....allowing the bacteria to build up. Kind of like new tank syndrome. I actually have the MAX tolerances recommended for treatment somewhere. I have exceeded them, but only in isolated tests to check salination tolerances. If I can find it the dose, I will post it. Until then, google brown blood disease and nitrate toxicity. Oddly enough I just concluded an experiment on just this...while I did shut it down prematuraly due to mortality rates I did learn a lot. So those deaths were not in vane. Trust me on the salts. NOT iodized. Use kosher, sea salt, epsom salt....I even used some reef salt left over from my fraggin projects. Turn up your air pumps. Scrap the small air stones and buy the bubble wall type with the finer bubbles. Try turning your temp down a little if nothing else works. Cooler temps hold more DO than higher temps. As long as change is gradual your fish should be okay. They don't like sudden changes of any kind. Best of Luck.
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    SODIUM CHLORIDE (better known as regular TABLE SALT) is the SALT you are looking for.

    The dosage ratio is 6:1 of chloride : nitrite in whatever unit mass you want, but commonly PPM is used here. So, for 5 ppm nitrite you want to add 30 ppm chloride. The chloride compete for uptake through the same metabolic pathways. Remember, fish control these aspects of their body chemistry through osmoregulation. On a side note, Tilapia are very well suited for these kinds of abusive environments.

    The University of Florida IFAS Extension has put together a very easy to read document for folks in your situation. Please HAVE A READ:

    THE USE OF SALT TO PREVENT AND TREAT BROWN BLOOD DISEASE

    Freshwater fish, particularly channel catfish, are susceptible to brown blood disease, which is caused by an accumulation of nitrite (N0 2 ) in the water. Although most studies conducted on brown blood disease have used channel catfish as a model, many other freshwater species are also susceptible to the condition. A detailed discussion of nitrite toxicity is provided in a separate IFAS publication. Following is a brief review of the use of salt to prevent and treat brown blood disease.

    In freshwater systems, nitrite toxicity is directly related to chloride (Cl - ) concentration, since nitrite (N0 2 - ) and chloride (Cl - ) particles compete for space to cross the gills and enter the bloodstream (see Figure 1 ). As chloride concentration in the water increases, nitrite's ability to enter the bloodstream decreases.

    Figure 1 .

    The critical component in brown blood disease is the chloride (Cl - ) portion of the salt molecule (NaCl). For this reason, a test to measure chloride concentration (ppm) should be used rather than a test that uses a hydrometer or refractometer to measure salinity.

    A minimum chloride concentration of 20 ppm is recommended to prevent nitrite toxicity among channel catfish in ponds. Most ponds are supplied with water containing at least 20 ppm Cl - ; however, salt should be added to ponds containing less than 20 ppm Cl - to increase the chloride concentration to the desired level (see Table 1 ). For each acre-foot of water in the pond (1 surface acre, 1 foot deep = 43,560 ft 3 ), 4.5 pounds of salt adds 1 ppm chloride.

    Salt may be used to minimize mortality and facilitate recovery of fish that develop brown blood disease. For every ppm of nitrite present, 6 ppm chloride should be used to control the disease. As described earlier, the producer must determine the required chloride concentration, adding 4.5 pounds of salt per acre-foot of water for each ppm Cl - needed (see Table 2 ).
    HOW TO MATH: CALCULATE SALT FOR NITRITE <-- click

  5. #5
    Members foodchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    611

    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Correct, that's why you DO NOT used Iodized salt. Epsom salt is not iodized.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  6. #6
    Members foodchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    611

    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    However for simplicity sake, most people do not have a way to convert or calculate PPM.
    Ounces/gallon is easier although not as accurate. But the desired effect is still the same. Some salt is better than no salt. But it is relative to what plants you are growing as some plants simply will not do well with the salt.
    I use this same salt treatment with many ornamentals, and have used it with a variety of ailments/treatments. Although I can't prove that the salt is the reason for the cure. There are simply other variables that could have contributed. However the point of my rambling is, is that 'salting' freshwater is a common practice and can be done a great many ways...so long as it's not iodized. So yes you can use table salt, if NON Iodized.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  7. #7
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zone 9b
    Posts
    2,294

    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Quote Originally Posted by foodchain
    Correct, that's why you DO NOT used Iodized salt. Epsom salt is not iodized.
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    IN BIG CAPITAL LETTERS, NO! AGAIN, WE ARE NOT USING MAGNESIUM SULFATE (EPSOM SALT) WE ARE USING SODIUM CHLORIDE (TABLE SALT). PLEASE UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE SO AS NOT TO GIVE OUT WRONG INFORMATION TO UNSUSPECTING VICTIMS.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate
    Magnesium sulfate (or magnesium sulphate) is a chemical compound containing magnesium, sulfur and oxygen, with the formula MgSO4. It is often encountered as the heptahydrate epsomite (MgSO47H2O), commonly called Epsom salt, from the town of Epsom in Surrey, England, where the salt was distilled from the springs that arise where the porous chalk of the North Downs meets non-porous London clay. Another hydrate form is kieserite.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt
    Table salt

    In Western cuisines, salt is used in cooking, and also made available to diners in salt shakers on the table.

    Table salt is refined salt, which contains about 97% to 99% sodium chloride by weight.

  8. #8
    Moderator urbanfarmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zone 9b
    Posts
    2,294

    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Quote Originally Posted by foodchain
    However for simplicity sake, most people do not have a way to convert or calculate PPM.
    Ounces/gallon is easier although not as accurate. But the desired effect is still the same. Some salt is better than no salt. But it is relative to what plants you are growing as some plants simply will not do well with the salt.
    I use this same salt treatment with many ornamentals, and have used it with a variety of ailments/treatments. Although I can't prove that the salt is the reason for the cure. There are simply other variables that could have contributed. However the point of my rambling is, is that 'salting' freshwater is a common practice and can be done a great many ways...so long as it's not iodized. So yes you can use table salt, if NON Iodized.
    Okay, so you ARE using sodium chloride (table salt). Perhaps you got the names mixed up (fortunately not the chemicals). Just as an aside, I put epsom salt into my tanks too. Of course, not for this reason whatsoever. I also put table salt into my tanks, but again, NOT for this reason EITHER.

  9. #9
    Members foodchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    611

    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    I need to do some research on this, the book I have states differently. I will return to this once I have all of my data. And I apologize if I gave anyone the wrong info, that was not my intention. What I did provide is a combination of what I have done, and what I am reading here. I suppose it's an older book, but I wouldn't think that would have anything to do with the chemical make up of salt. Either way, I have pm'd you on this as well. The only problems I have ever had was with table salt, book aside...that's the truth. Or at least I think it was the salt that was the cause, as the symptoms were releived as a direct result of adding "epsom salt", but intensified and mortality when added table salt. I must confess though that this has me puzzled and will have to broaded this out. Again...my intention was not to mislead anyone. Just about 3 weeks ago, I had the exact same problem, and resolved it with this method. I will return with the data to sort this out.
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

  10. #10
    Members foodchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    611

    Re: Peas and Nitrites

    Maybe, but NOT the table salt MY wife buys at the grocery store, and puts on the table. I myself, I know other types work...but I only use my sea salt mixes left over from reef work, epsom salt or kosher salt. The table stuff is bad news...for me...may work for other people. It just made my fish float (upside down).
    At first I left this blank...but now I believe: "It's better to keep your mouth closed, and have the world think your a fool, than open it and confirm it."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •