question/idea on a self contained unit

[sirtoggle]

I have an idea for the way I would like to build my system, would like any feedback as I am sure someone has tried this. But here is my plan so far, drawing out a design I will post if anyone wants to see it.

1) The idea is to have a high central fish tank to let gravity pull water into the grow beds for the plants with a tumbler/inclosed fan blade to break up solids as it goes down.
2) From the grow beds it would go down into a sump tank which at the bottom would have a diy Hydraulic ram pump to pump the water by its own gravity force back into the top of the fish tank.
with a float to cut off water to the pump if the water gets to high.

I wonder about the air pump I was reading in the 101 posts (Awesome threads btw Oliver)
Do you guys think that there could be enough pressure from the gravity feeding to power a air pump for the tank? Or is there any non-gird powered way to feed air into the water, again the idea is to be self contained incase the power ever stops.
and I hope this is the right place to post this.

Thanks

[urbanfarmer]

The idea is to have a high central fish tank to let gravity pull water into the grow beds for the plants with a tumbler/inclosed fan blade to break up solids as it goes down.

Really good idea. This is quite possible with the right design!

Do you guys think that there could be enough pressure from the gravity feeding to power a air pump for the tank?

No.

Or is there any non-gird powered way to feed air into the water, again the idea is to be self contained incase the power ever stops.

YES! As I have very clearly explained in my others posts, there are excellent power alternatives. BEHOLDEN ONTO YOU!



Perpetual motion machines are a thing of the past. HAMSTERS ARE THE FUTURE!!!

[sirtoggle]

@urban

Sweet, but I have no hamsters lol

wonder if you could use the first set of fan/tumbler to move a second fan/tumbler to push air at a decent rate instead of trying to generate power.

[urbanfarmer]

Actually, yes. The best thing to do though is not to try to convert the mechanical energy into electrical and back to mechanical. Simply use the mechanical energy as-is because you will lose much of it in the conversion process (and there's not a lot of it to begin with). I would suggest creating a "Venturi effect" with the water coming back down. This will suck air bubbles into the stream and do just that.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

Fluid Dynamics VII: The Venturi Effect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wokswr_KHXQ

[JCO]

I for one would keep the fish tank below the level of the growbeds and pump the water to an upper level sump where the solid particulates could settle to the bottom for later removal and allow the water to flow from the sump to the growbeds and back to the fish tank by gravity.

The purpose of a sump is to allow the water to slow to a point that solids and particulates collect on the bottom for later removal.

Check out http://diyaquaponics.com/aqua_plans.php

[sirtoggle]

@urban

That would be perfect, thanks man

@JCO

I shall look at that right now. thanks

[urbanfarmer]

Hm, although I agree that's how we recommend system design, sirtoggle seems to be an innovator and we should let him try new things!!! For instance, with a fish tank with the right dimensions the fish tank can act as the sump. If properly designed the solids could be removed from the bottom, etc.

In either case, we're here to help!

If you're looking for energy off the grid you can always go solar power (you don't need much for an AP system) or even a bicycle that charges a battery! You can make family, friends, children, whatever, contribute to the power on a daily basis. Depending on the system size, as little as 15 minutes of peddling could be enough juice for the day. (In other words YOU can be the hamster!!! )

[sirtoggle]

I might have made a mistake saying sump instead of reservoir, the tanks after the grow bed would be to keep the fish tank at a constant water level w/ use of floats and the Hydraulic ram pump to keep the water moving.

right now I live in an apartment so it would be on my patio, which has a depth of about 5'. So due to that restriction in size to use height (11' from floor to roof on the patio about) in my favor.

I did think of solar power, but the costs for solar are still kinda high for the type of budget I was thinking of. But that might change between now and build day.

edit adding:
also I thought that the solids from the fish would have to go into the grow bed, then filter clean back into the fish tank.

[JCO]

If you let the solids go to the growbeds, sooner or later you will have to take the growbeds down to scratch to clean them out even if you put worms in them. Sooner or later it will clog your media and cause channeling of the water and thereby not watering all plants equally or not a all. I know many on here disagree with this contention, however I know from years of experience and mistakes made and it's a messy job I do not ever want to have to do again. Keep all solids and particulates out of the grow beds as much as possible.

[sirtoggle]

@jco

ah I see, I will re work my design of the fish tank to take that into account and give it a try. thanks.