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urbanfarmer
05-14-2011, 09:38 PM
Has anyone tried this? Plenty of research on the topic, but I don't have a microbiology lab nor is my microscope even unpacked from the recent move...

Definitely a GREAT VALUE...
http://img.izzy4real.com/DIYAP/greenwater/2011-05-14%2023.26.08.jpg

Green phytoplankton ready to be plundered...
http://img.izzy4real.com/DIYAP/greenwater/2011-05-14%2023.45.24.jpg

Tank shot, basic setup 1x 100 Watt 6500K CFL light (also great value, LOL)
http://img.izzy4real.com/DIYAP/greenwater/2011-05-14%2023.45.37.jpg

Another tank shot...
http://img.izzy4real.com/DIYAP/greenwater/2011-05-14%2023.45.50.jpg

Tilapia will worship this like it was God... :lol:
http://img.izzy4real.com/DIYAP/greenwater/2011-05-15%2000.02.41.jpg

Ammonia and Nitrite THROUGH THE PROVERBIAL ROOF!!!
http://img.izzy4real.com/DIYAP/greenwater/2011-05-14%2023.47.49.jpg
(Nitrite LEFT | Total Ammoniacal Nitrogen RIGHT)

CONSIDERATIONS
Well, I am planning to let the green water sit overnight before adding any fish. I assumed there might be a high level of ammonia and nitrite in the water because the culture tank has been sitting in the dark for several days. If I leave the light on while letting it sit, it should absorb a good bit of the toxins and keep the water oxygenated so the bacteria can continue to work. I added about 4 gallons of concentrated green water and diluted with about 3 more gallons of dechlorinated water. I'm not sure if there is a diminishing return on algae growth as the concentration saturated per unit volume, but I assumed yes. I believe the water will become more saturated with algae overnight and I will test the water quality again prior to adding fish.

EXPERIMENT DESIGN
The experiment will be quite simple. I will have 2x 10 gallon tanks stocked with the same amount of water and the same amount of Blue Tilapia (Oreochromis aureus) fingerlings. I currently have 50x 1.5" Tilapia fingerlings and I will divide them between the 2 tanks. The green water tank is shown above and the other tank will simply be filled with dechlorinated tap water. The temperature will be maintained at 86 degrees Fahrenheit in both tanks via submersible aquarium heaters. The green water tank will not have any aeration added unless it is determined that the fish require a higher level of dissolved oxygen (if the majority of fish are observed at the surface due to low dissolved oxygen). I would prefer to simulate a low-tech, low maintenance situation for the green water tank.

I should weigh the Tilapia fingerlings to have roughly the same starting biomass in both tanks, but again, all my stuff is packed up so I will eyeball it.

The fish will be fed the same amount of high protein AquaMax 300 (ground up) per feeding. I would like to have a strict regime of feeding at specified times and quantities, but I'm going to eyeball it and feed whenever I can. This simulates the hobbyist situation more realistically anyway, but will be an added variable to consider albeit controlled via the control group.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
Thank you davidstcldfl for providing the fish food.



...................................FEEDBACK? COMMENTS? SUGGESTIONS?

JCO
05-14-2011, 11:59 PM
OH, so you didn't fill the jugs yourself...! :lol: :lol:

Don't let me bug you, I await your conclusions. :mrgreen:

urbanfarmer
05-15-2011, 12:56 AM
OH, I see what you did there... actually, I have some of those too... :lol: :lol: :lol:

I should have taken a picture with 1 of each!!!

cedarswamp
05-15-2011, 09:32 AM
What is your hypothesis :?:

urbanfarmer
05-15-2011, 02:43 PM
What is your hypothesis :?:

Observational Experiments (http://paer.rutgers.edu/scientificAbilities/Downloads/FormAssessTasks/ObsDesExpt.pdf)

What are they?
An observational experiment is an experiment that students perform when they are investigating
a new phenomenon. Thus, they do not make predictions or have expectations about
its outcome. Students need to collect data, analyze them and find a pattern in the data.
They then need to explain the reasons for the pattern (if applicable), and/or construct a
qualitative or quantitative relationship.

Why do you want to use them?
Observational experiments have the following desirable features:
• Concrete experiences
These experiments provide concrete experiences as part of the learning cycle.
• Open-mindedness
Students learn to learn to approach data without knowing whether they are right or
wrong.
• Decision-making
Students learn to make decisions about representing data, considering outliers, deciding
what pattern they want to look for.
• Epistemic cognition
Students learn to deal with situations when there is no right answer. They learn how
to choose a productive way to investigate complex phenomena.
• Real data
Students learn to deal with the complexities of real data.

How and where do you use them?
Observational experiments can be used in the following contexts:
• In a lecture while developing ideas in a new topic.
The instructor performs the experiment, students record data, decide what variables
are important, and try to find patterns in the data by plotting graphs.
• In the lecture, laboratory or recitation/workshop.
The data from such experiments (performed by someone else) are provided. Students
analyze them and look for patterns.
• In the lecture, laboratory or recitation/workshop.
The data and analysis are provided. Students construct explanations for the trends
in the data.
• In the laboratory. Students perform these experiments in the lab (before learning
about them in lecture), collect and analyze data, find patterns, and construct explanations
or mathematical relationships to describe the patterns.
• As a homework problem. Data for an experiment are provided and students are asked
to analyze the data and find patterns in them.

What are some types
Observational experiments can be used to introduce any new area of physics. They can be
either qualitative or quantitative. As described in the previous section, some or all parts
of an observational experiment can be used for example, students can collect and analyze
data, and/or find patterns, and/or construct explanations.


In my case, I am conducting a qualitative observational experiment...

:ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: CHA CHA CHA

There are research studies out there showing that green water pond culture supplemented with commercial feed will grow equal to or better fish mass per unit time than fish grown on just commercial feed. I have also read that very young tilapia are very efficient at feeding off phytoplankton, but when they grow the growth they gain is minimal compared to when they were young. I really have no aim with my experiment besides taking pictures and posting it on the forum! :mrgreen:

urbanfarmer
05-15-2011, 03:01 PM
UPDATE: 5/15/2011 18:00:00

Total Ammoniacal Nitrogen
still over 8.0 PPM (It's probably 40 PPM)

Nitrite
still over 5.0 PPM

Next Action
I will continue waiting until the levels drop to something safe to begin...


UPDATE: 5/16/2011 23:00:00

Total Ammoniacal Nitrogen
still over 8.0 PPM (color is not as DEEP, it's coming down now)

Nitrite
still over 5.0 PPM (this will probably come down a day or so after the ammonia)

Next Action
Still waiting for levels to drop...

drdreww
05-15-2011, 09:06 PM
Can't wait 2 see how this all turns out. I will buy the book when you write it lol

keith_r
05-16-2011, 05:54 AM
i'll be interested in following your data results, i'm thinking about something similar after much pond reading, except i want to start with the green water, add rotifers/daphnia, then add minnows and crays, then add my "target" fish..

cedarswamp
05-16-2011, 08:25 AM
UPDATE: 5/15/2011 18:00:00

Total Ammoniacal Nitrogen
still over 8.0 PPM (It's probably 40 PPM)

Nitrite
still over 5.0 PPM

Next Action
I will continue waiting until the levels drop to something safe to begin...


In an "observational experiment" should you be making the assumption that the levels will drop to something safe or that they're unsafe to begin with? :lol:

urbanfarmer
05-16-2011, 11:06 PM
In an "observational experiment" should you be making the assumption that the levels will drop to something safe or that they're unsafe to begin with? :lol:
I'm "waiting" for them to drop so I can start the experiment. Sorry for being unclear :(

cedarswamp
05-17-2011, 02:58 AM
I was just joking, sorry for the dry wit. :(

urbanfarmer
05-17-2011, 06:31 PM
I was just joking, sorry for the dry wit. :(
OH! :lol:


UPDATE: 5/17/2011 20:45:00
I have added 2x 100 Watt 6500K CFL bulbs... there is a noticeable increase in microalgae in the tank...

I have been giving the tank a photoperiod of 24/0 since microalgae can use it.

Total Ammoniacal Nitrogen
0.50 PPM (IT'S WORKING, IT'S WORKING!!!)

Nitrite
still over 5.0 PPM (this will probably come down a day or so after the ammonia)

Next Action
Waiting for nitrite levels to drop now, I assume another 24 hours will do it...

badflash
05-18-2011, 06:13 PM
Sorry I missed this post. I used to grow all sorts of green water when I was producing large numbers of brine shrimp and daphnia. I used clean gallon wine bottles and an air bubbler. I used aged aquarium water and pured off 1/2 and refilled with aged fish water about every 3rd day. About once a month I needed to clean the jugs.

I used daylight bulbs set for 16 on 8 off.

rfeiller
05-18-2011, 10:30 PM
i use to use very thick green water with apistos, rams, discus and several other species of fry; the fry would color up as if hormoned.

urbanfarmer
05-18-2011, 10:42 PM
Sorry I missed this post. I used to grow all sorts of green water when I was producing large numbers of brine shrimp and daphnia. I used clean gallon wine bottles and an air bubbler. I used aged aquarium water and pured off 1/2 and refilled with aged fish water about every 3rd day. About once a month I needed to clean the jugs.

I used daylight bulbs set for 16 on 8 off.
I think I have Daphnia on the glass because I see little specs of something moving around. I wish I had my microscope... ANYWAY... Did you put a bubbler in there? It might just be my water because it was so high in ammonia/nitrite, but without the bubbler it starts to stink after a day. It might not do this now, I haven't tried.

Any reason for the 16/8 as opposed to 24/0?


i use to use very thick green water with apistos, rams, discus and several other species of fry; the fry would color up as if hormoned.
I would like to do this! How did you get it very thick? You mean as in like thicker than water or just a lot of green?

badflash
05-19-2011, 09:04 PM
Yes, I used a hard plastic tube rather than an air stone. Stones plug quickly. All the studies I've seen says algae needs a dark period to do best. Saves $$ on power for the lights too.

badflash
05-19-2011, 09:06 PM
If you want to concentrate it, put the gug in a fridge for a few days. The algae will settle and you pour off the water.

urbanfarmer
05-19-2011, 10:50 PM
OH thank you, I didn't know that. I will try it now!

rfeiller
05-19-2011, 11:27 PM
maybe it was just the type of suspended algae, but it was thick enough that my hand held a few inches in from the glass was just a shadow. the aquarium was heavily stocked with young fish, apparantly they produced a lot of nutrients in short order. fluoresant lights (only used grow lights) were on probably 18-20 hrs per day. of course to do this the particular tank would be taken off the central system. between the algae and iron, the fish would attain coloration normally found only in wild caught fish. particularly the red spotting and metallic sheen. i always provided a lot of aeration to maintain a good circulation and exchange of gasses.

urbanfarmer
05-19-2011, 11:42 PM
maybe it was just the type of suspended algae, but it was thick enough that my hand held a few inches in from the glass was just a shadow. the aquarium was heavily stocked with young fish, apparantly they produced a lot of nutrients in short order. fluoresant lights (only used grow lights) were on probably 18-20 hrs per day. of course to do this the particular tank would be taken off the central system. between the algae and iron, the fish would attain coloration normally found only in wild caught fish. particularly the red spotting and metallic sheen. i always provided a lot of aeration to maintain a good circulation and exchange of gasses.
OH, that's what you mean. Actually, mine is that thick. I can't see into the water past a few inches either. This water reminds me of The Incredible Hulk...

RS_
05-22-2011, 10:43 AM
Hi Urbanfarmer, and all,

I did the same thing with with growing green water last year to help feed my baby tilapia.

I used 5 gal water bottles in my green house, and would siphon out 1/2 of a bottle, and pour that into a 55gal fry tank every day. and did 2 fry tanks a day... then refill the bottles with FT water....

So far, I have not done that this year, because of being busy with several other projects, and its very early in the breeding season.....

I have been planing to get some 330gal IBC's to build a green water growing setup, and then pump green water into 10 55gal fry grow out barrels that will be a part of my outside system, and am wandering how this will effect the rest of the outside system. I don't want the rest of the system to go green, and only plan to pump a gal or so at a time into the 10 fry barrels, perhaps 4-5 times a day to help feed the fry......

When i thin out the fry runts, i feed them to the catfish, so i don't want to use so much store bought tilapia fry food, just to feed the catfish fresh baby fish, and think this is a good way to feed them, along with a egg yolk, yeast, and flour mixture that i make up, and then supplement that with fry food......

what do you all think about this plan....? what would you do different....?

RS

Bioritize
08-02-2011, 12:43 AM
Hey Guys,

What was the results?

What do you use to start the green water? Can you just set a bucket of water outside in the sun to grow the starter algae?

I love this shit!!

urbanfarmer
08-02-2011, 04:12 AM
I had starter algae from another tank and I just seeded the system, but you should be able to start some off outside using a bucket. The good stuff needs a lot of light. If you get less light you can get the other algae. I'm not sure on the benefits of brown algae vs. green algae. The fish eat both as I had a brown algae indoor culture going with tilapia and did not feed them anything. They survived and pooped out brown stuff whereas the fish in green algae had very green poop.

I found the green algae kept the water parameters perfect whereas the brown algae struggled. The green algae actually had what seemed like 2 types of green algae. 1 was very fine and is what you get outside with the pea soup, but the other was a dark green and actually formed very small pieces. I could extract this dark green algae, let it dry outside overnight and it would form algae flakes with no effort. The fish ate the flakes. Pretty amazing stuff.

badflash
08-02-2011, 08:59 AM
Put an aquarium with used tank water in it in partial sun so it doesn't get too hot. It will go green an just a few days.