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T3kn0m0nk3y
05-12-2011, 12:05 PM
Hello all, I'm new to AP and new to this board. I'm hoping to get and share knowledge and get a sustainable year round AP setup going.

I'd like to go over my intended design and see if there are any notable flaws, as well as get some more solid numbers from ppl with more experience. I don't want roting plants and dead fishies on my conscience! :lol:

I live in Rochester, New York (US) and so I have some cold climate concerns to contend with. Average summer temp is in the low nineties, and avg winter temp is in the low teens. (we call Rochester the angry lady, in one year it can fluctuate from 110 to -15 generally tho temps stay fairly consistent in a monthly average).

So I got a 220 gallon water rated poly tank from National Tank Outlet:

http://www.ntotank.com/220gaovveta4.html

and a second 75 gallon of the same type for collecting rain water.

In the warehouse where I work (work at a plumbing supply place) they have 32"Wx44"Lx11D" Plastic bins. I'm not sure the manufacturer, but they look solid polycarb. They've only been used to store loose plumbing doodads and no chemicals that we are aware of, but I was hoping with a good thorough diluted bleach, then vinegar and water wash they should be ok to use as grow beds. (planning to purchase 10)

For pumps I got 2 pond pumps from Pondmaster, a 500 gal series and a 200 gallon series, as well as a UV filter. I checked the pumps for anticipated water lift and the 500 is good to 10ft for a 250 gal load. The smaller pump is rated to 2ft at 200gal. I will use gravity with a floater valve to keep the level consistent in the fish tank. The idea being after collecting rainwater in the smaller tank above I can run it through the UV filter to make the water inert and spill into the main tank.

Coincidentally we are also doing a 16x16 foot raised bed garden microsystem along side and putting the whole setup in a makeshift greenhouse built from some 2x4's and double wall poly greenhouse panels.

For the winter I plan to get a small wood pellet stove and retrofit a heatexchanger into it so I can circulate heated water trough a closed radiator system and a coil of PEX wrapped around the outside of the tank with some insulation to hold it and the greenhouse at temp. Pellets are fairly cheap and abundant around here so they are a good starter choice for now.

I plan to put the tank on a 48” square gravel bed topped with construction foam to get it off the cold ground and level it off. In the tank I’m hoping to raise Talapia with fresh water mussels at the bottom and duckweed on top - not the entire surface, just a contained area to supplement feeding. This will also allow an area for surface aeration to help dissolved oxygen levels without disturbing the duckweed which apparently likes still water. Tank temp I’ve read needs to be about 80 degrees Fahrenheit.

From that tank the large pump will push water up about 4 ft to the top of a shelving unit and into two “shrimping beds”. Not sure yet of the species but I’ve been looking at the Mylasian river prawn as an attractive option. Above the shrimpies I would like to float some veggie boats - because…. Why not? The reason for the secondary tanks is to both keep the shrimps separate and under light current (I heard they don’t fight as much that way) and pre-cool the water for the shrimp and veggies. Should help get water temps closer to the 60 deg F they prefer.

From the shrimping beds the water will drain down into the grow beds via PVC with an eb and flow design. The draining water from above will fill up the 11” deep beds to just shy of 10”. until a bell siphon swishes away the excess and dumps it into a small sump tub (about 10 gal) where the other pump pushes it back up and sprays it over the fish tank for added aeration. I’ve also read that adding some Red Worms to the grow beds can keep “gunk” build up to a minimum and add further nutrients to the plants.

Not sure yet on what we plan to grow veggies wise other than “whatever we can”. I’m hoping to compile a list of good “getting things started” veggies to experiment and get the system up and running for a few months to work the kinks out and get familiarized with measurements and behaviors.

Let me know what you think of this design as I’m hoping to start assembling asap. I still don’t feel perfectly confident about all the details, but I’m hoping through more research and forums like this one I can at least get something functional and tweak it later.

Thanks in advance for any feedback/advice!

-TM

keith_r
05-12-2011, 12:31 PM
i'm trying to wrap my head around what you're doing, but a few things..
i'm in northeast ohio near cleveland so can relate to your weather
i'd bury the fish tank at least partially and insulate it.. for that kind of tank, i would only cut an opening in the top big enough to catch the fish out of and reach in with cleaning equipment..
tilapia will grow best with water temps in the 80's, you might get one good season, over winter you need to keep the temps over 60 to keep the fish alive (they won't grow much at cold temps) have you considered "cool water" fish? like yellow perch, trout, or crappie? check with "pond stockers" in your area, or fish farms to see what is available and look up info on the species that interests you..(temps/food conversion ratios, basically any info you can find)..
there's a thread on someone here doing prawns, as well as red claw crayfish, but again, those species prefer pretty warm water from what i've read..good luck and keep us up to date!

JCO
05-12-2011, 05:31 PM
Welcome to the show....pull up an easy chair, relax and stay awhile. New voices are always a welcome addition to our family..! Whatever questions you have on you mind, this is the place to get the answers so pick a topic of your interest and start your own thread and Enjoy. Please go to your profile and put in the city and state where you live, there may be members close by. :mrgreen:

rfeiller
05-12-2011, 08:14 PM
welcome to the forum

badflash
05-13-2011, 06:44 AM
Start a thread in the appropriate forum. This is just for introduction. Rainwater must be hardend for use. Soft water won't work for most fish. Put together a sketch of your proposed plans and we'll comment.

urbanfarmer
05-13-2011, 11:02 AM
Greetings Earthling, and welcome! :mrgreen:

drdreww
05-17-2011, 10:18 PM
Scared him off eh..

davidstcldfl
05-18-2011, 05:26 PM
Hi T3kn0m0nk3y .... :D

urbanfarmer
05-18-2011, 11:18 PM
Scared him off eh..
He'll be back. They always come back...

shannoneka
05-22-2011, 08:52 AM
Hi I, saw your post on your new systems sounds intersesting I can't offer any advise as I am new to both this site and ap. My hats off to you with all the work you have done so far I am just trying to get strated hre in vegas and am very over whelmed good luck to you

TCLynx
05-22-2011, 09:27 AM
I would chime in on the side of those who recommend a cool water fish or at least one that will survive cooler water than the tialpia will. Especially if you are going to be cooling the water down for the shrimp (got me confused on that one since I was thinking the giant prawns and they need even warmer water than the tilapia do.) But anyway, warming the water for the fish then cooling it back down for the shrimp then warming it back up for the fish will be very energy in-efficient. So to save a little on heating/cooling costs I would definitely try for a more stable temperature and go with animals that will agree about what temperatures are good.

I've actually found that here in Central FL, even in a minimal greenhouse (no heating) I can grow out channel catfish, bigger/faster than I can grow out tilapia seeing as the catfish will keep eating/growing year round while the tilapia quit for a few months of the year. I expect that without heating to optimum temperatures, bluegill will grow probably almost as fast as tilapia and with heating, they will probably give mixed gender tilapia a run for their money on growth rates.

As to the digging a fish tank into the ground. I would point out that the ground isn't really a good insulator but more of a thermal mass. If the natural ground temperatures are the same as the temperature you want for your water, then digging the tank into the ground will be beneficial. Like here in FL our ground temperature average is pretty perfect for warm water fish. However, if your year round average ground temperature is more like 60 F, then digging the tank into the ground will not be helpful when trying to keep the water at 80 F for tilapia because the ground will be trying to bring the tank temp down to 60 while you are trying to heat it. The earth isn't an insulator, it's a thermal mass and therefor beneficial if you want the temperature it already averages. I would recommend insulating around the tank or perhaps better yet, insulated a large mass under the greenhouse for use as thermal mass and temperature stability for the greenhouse through winter. Then again if you switch to trout, digging the tank into the ground would be a good thing.