Help!!!! Water Temperatures

[aquaarche]

Hi guys,

anyone a Univ Virgin Islands that may be posting please give some advice.

This is the third summer here (Feb-May) this is known as the hot/dry season. every year at this time I see drastic reduction in plant growth. I have been able to keep a record of water temperatures. Most of the year the water is between 76-80 degrees but over the last month the temperatures have reached 84 on the average dipping only to 80 at night. with such high water temps the plants are not growing.

It didn't matter whether I had a gravel be or float trough the water temp raises during this time of year. I have shaded the troughs, the fish tank and the filters. even if everything were painted white we would still have the high temperatures of the water because the air temperatures at night don't go below 80.

All my chemistry are fine pH 6.8-7.0, Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0.1 and Nitrate 5.0. the only difference is the water temp

Any suggestions, thoughts or ideas?

[urbanfarmer]

I still have not thoroughly researched the water temperature issue. What plants are you growing? How many gallons/liters is your system??

[aquaarche]

I have around 120 gallons maximum in my little experimental system.

I have two have barrel float troughs I am growing Green Leaf Lettuce, Tomatoes, and Sweet Basil with 40 gallons of water in each side.

my 45 gallon fish tank has 40 pieces of Tilapia, they are growing

plus a small float tank above the flood tanks that holds around 15 gallons.

I do believe that it is my DO. My problem is I can not find a meter here in the Philippines. It would be great if someone could send me one but no one I know of knows what it is.

[badflash]

Those temps are pefect for tilapia.

If you can cascade the return water above the surface to create bubbles, it should help. Otherwise, add a small air pump and stone.

[aquaarche]

I have an air pump in the fish tank. and another one for the float troughs. Each half barrel trough is not quite 4 feet long.

But this increase in Aeration has done little. I need to find a DO meter.

[urbanfarmer]

Your water temperatures don't seem to be the result of your decreased plant growth. Can you try to describe in more detail what is happening to your plants?

[urbanfarmer]

Actually, if possible, can you take some pictures of your setup and post them on here? I'm 100% positive we can help you out, but we need more information.

[aquaarche]

If you go to this link you can see all the pictures I have of our system.

http://chette.tripod.com/id40.html

That is the only place I have pictures loaded too. I have no photo album even on that site because once the pictures go into the album they become the property of the web site companies. Even if you remove them they have copies to which they can use for any purpose they want even sales. It is that way with blogs, pictures, e-mags et al... beware of putting anything you don't want to keep for your own profit or patents. they can make a claim against you. I have already ran into it and lost the rights to my own article because I posted it on a blog site and they got the rights. When it came time to publish my work I was not allowed because the web site claimed they had the rights to it though I was the one who wrote it.

since then no social websites or anything for me no twitter, no face book, plasco(SP?), any of them. that one page on lycos is all I have and I watch what I post and publish there closely.

[urbanfarmer]

Okay great, thanks for that!

Can you describe exactly what you believe the water temperature is causing you problems with? Do the plants die or do new transplants just not grow? If they die, how do they die? Please describe color, scorching, chlorisis, what parts die first, which plants die first, or any other observations.

I genuinely don't believe that the slight temperature change you have described kills the plants (at least not directly). As you have noticed a seasonal occurrence, my mind jumps to pests, disease, or sun intensity. However, without more information I can't say any more.

[aquaarche]

for the first two weeks after I created the float troughs the newly transplanted basil, celery, lettuce and Tomatoes grew and grew. after a two weeks I harvest out the lettuce and transplanted new lettuce and Basil. At first everything seems fine then I noticed the leaves browning and withering as if exposed to too much heat like a burning. after that started everything stopped growing. the new lettuce seemed to burn and the basil started burning too. The plants in the flood tank trough did not die as those in the float troughs they just merely slowed growth to the point they are three weeks old and still look like sprouts including the basil. The only thing doing ok is the Tomatoes but even there growth has slowed down dramatically. during that time the chemistry has been normal as reported above with an occasional pH lowering which I used high pH water to buffer it to 6.8-7.0.

The leaves die first. the stems stay normal and healthy looking. there is no pests present. color seems ok red lettuce was red Green lettuce green, tomatoes have green leaves with those on the lower outer branches seen to be burned (scorched). They also have only produced a few flowers there should be more. Sun intensity has changed slightly the whole unit is getting far more sunlight since February.

There is also a brown stringy type algae growing in all three of the float troughs. It is a not in the fish tank or the flood tank it self.

I am glad to have this problem now in the smaller system. We are planning to build a larger system that is exposed to sunlight pretty much most of the year. So far I am willing to shade if necessary. temperatures year round are 80-100 in direct sunlight and little less in the shade. During the rest of the year there are cooler nights

[cedarswamp]

Do you still have the sides down on your greenhouse? You want as much air circulation under there as possible, perhaps also blow a fan acrossed your water surface and/or maybe add a fountain to you fishtank to cool the water and add aeration.

[badflash]

If DO levels are low, the fish will tell you. They will gulp air at the surface. My guess is that you have a mineral deficiency. Lettuce is also a poor warm weather crop. There is a mineral deficiency post on the site someplace. I think it is a sticky.

[urbanfarmer]

Here it is: Nutrient Deficiency (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?764-Nutrient-Deficiency)

I am going to have to agree with badflash. The algae may be contributing to the problem by consuming the few nutrients in your system. Potassium seems to be the deficiency problem here based on the symptoms presented. INTERESTINGLY, you may want to know that potassium is one of the hardest nutrients to have in good supply in aquaponic systems.

Add some potassium and see if that helps. Let us know how it looks in a week or week in a half. If there's no improvement, we can look into it more.

[aquaarche]

would chelated potassium tablets be ok.

I cannot find either one here for farm use. But I have some bottles of pure chelated potassium in the cupboard for human consumption. There are some very small amounts of magnesium stearate. Stearic acid from veggie source, and silica ingredients for holding it together in a Caplet form. would it be safe to use that?

Each caplet contains 99mg of potassium from potassium gluconate.

how do I get rid of the algae? If I add potassium wont that promote more algae growth? I will take a look at the chart. what if I add to much Potassium? what would the plants look like.

I could put a small tilapia in each float trough to eat the algae. do you think the tilapia will eat the roots?

another reminder all the seeds are made for warm climate growing. If that matters any

Thanks

[badflash]

Wood ashes are a good source if used sparingly and only a few tablespoons at a time. Add it to the beds, not the tank.

[aquaarche]

I have only float troughs now I add most of what I have into the flood tanks and let it sit on the bottom dissolve slowly. I use our hard water to buffer the water up in pH. there is calcium, magnesium and other minerals in it. Also I use the scrapings of a cuttle bone for calcium as well I soak them in water until they absorb water then I put it in the flood tank. I am looking to replace the flood tank with a swirl/cyclone filter. so thereafter I will add all nutrients into the troughs.

Does it matter what types of wood ashes. some woods are poisonous and some woods are treated with insecticides how would that affect the ash?

[urbanfarmer]

No, don't use any kind of treated wood or painted wood. Use natural wood and let it burn to a white ash. Chelated potassium could work. Does it say what chelating agent?

[aquaarche]

It does not say what the chelated agent is. but One is from Puritan's Pride and the other bottle is from NOW Foods both are vegetarian formula's. I am using cuttle bone (the bone from the cuttle fish or Squid)to help supplement Calcium, For the moment I will use gravel in my swirl filter but I will replace it with broken pieces of coral. That should supply calcium and magnesium.

Does anyone know what minerals are found in dead coral?

I went to float troughs because they are not as heavy as gravel beds. I am hoping to use the ferrouscement to build some troughs with. I will use wire mess and small re-bar to frame and cement it. I am wondering what the cement mix should be. A class "A" mix here is 1 part cement to 3 parts sand. I guess it should be made sore of dry but then kept int he shade and light spray until it cured.

After curing we will coat them with non toxic white swimming pool paint inside and out. or rubberized roof coating. Any suggestions on that would be nice.

[urbanfarmer]

I have no idea on the cement. Stucco is our resident expert on all things cement. Maybe someone else knows something... idk

[urbanfarmer]

How are the plants faring?

[aquaarche]

I added a swirl filter and the system is running ok.

I took out some older plants but transplanted the others. I replaced the net bags with cups of gravel. As of the moment I cannot tell but will be observing the next few days.

I added potassium before I changed out to the swirl filter.

[stucco]

I went to float troughs because they are not as heavy as gravel beds. I am hoping to use the ferrouscement to build some troughs with. I will use wire mess and small re-bar to frame and cement it. I am wondering what the cement mix should be. A class "A" mix here is 1 part cement to 3 parts sand. I guess it should be made sore of dry but then kept int he shade and light spray until it cured.

After curing we will coat them with non toxic white swimming pool paint inside and out. or rubberized roof coating. Any suggestions on that would be nice.

the 3 sand to 1 mortar mix is perfect. Cure time is 28 days and you should keep it as wet as possible for the first 10 days… after the 10 days wet a few times a day this will make it as hard as a rock. I recently read that a gentleman has been using paraffin wax to seal his concrete tanks so I started an experiment and will let you know how it goes.

[aquaarche]

Stucco,

We don't have any type of mortar mix here. Only pure cement and probably not the best type either. but 3 to 1 is a class A mix.

I will keep checking back to here how it goes with the Paraffin.

[urbanfarmer]

I went to float troughs because they are not as heavy as gravel beds. I am hoping to use the ferrouscement to build some troughs with. I will use wire mess and small re-bar to frame and cement it. I am wondering what the cement mix should be. A class "A" mix here is 1 part cement to 3 parts sand. I guess it should be made sore of dry but then kept int he shade and light spray until it cured.

After curing we will coat them with non toxic white swimming pool paint inside and out. or rubberized roof coating. Any suggestions on that would be nice.

the 3 sand to 1 mortar mix is perfect. Cure time is 28 days and you should keep it as wet as possible for the first 10 days… after the 10 days wet a few times a day this will make it as hard as a rock. I recently read that a gentleman has been using paraffin wax to seal his concrete tanks so I started an experiment and will let you know how it goes.
Oh, that's GENIUS!!!

[urbanfarmer]

I called to check. We have a store called Michaels here, it's a craft store, they sell 11 pounds of candle (paraffin) wax for $35. Is that a good price? Also, how much do you apply to the cement??

[aquaarche]

what about liquid paraffin? if you use it to mix the cement and sand it become inert and wont burn.

[urbanfarmer]

That sounds expensive!

[aquaarche]

Not really you can buy 5 gallons via any of your friends in the restaurant or bar business it is used in those little wax less candle they use on the tables to give a little ambiance. I think if your going to convert liquid paraffin to solid wax 5 gallons will make around 100lbs of solid wax.

[urbanfarmer]

Hm... okay, you have my attention... how would you convert it?

[urbanfarmer]

I did some research on the chemicals...

PARAFFIN OIL (CAS No. 8012-95-1):
CnH2n+2 n=16~24

PARAFFIN WAX (CAS No.: 8002-74-2):
CnH2n+2 n=24~36

5 gallons of paraffin oil weighs 40 pounds, which means by the Law of Conservation of Mass you would have to add 60 pounds of reactant to get 100 pounds of paraffin wax. I don't think 5 gallons makes 100 pounds of wax... maybe 40 some pounds of wax.

5 gallons of paraffin oil costs about $140 and 44 pounds of paraffin wax costs about $140 locally... seems about the same to me!

[aquaarche]

hmmmm??? Interesting, well it seems that if you can get more by making your own then just buy solid wax. I still want to see how the frames for ferrous cement are made I bet they would be water tights.

my water temps are still around 80to84degrees, There may have been a contaminate in my water possibly washing soap and bleach residue one of the containers we used to collect water was used for washing clothes a few days before. though there was not any foam or suds. After 30% of the water was replaced when I put in the swirl filter everything started growing again and the burning stopped.

[urbanfarmer]

hmmmm??? Interesting, well it seems that if you can get more by making your own then just buy solid wax. I still want to see how the frames for ferrous cement are made I bet they would be water tights.

my water temps are still around 80to84degrees, There may have been a contaminate in my water possibly washing soap and bleach residue one of the containers we used to collect water was used for washing clothes a few days before. though there was not any foam or suds. After 30% of the water was replaced when I put in the swirl filter everything started growing again and the burning stopped.
That is very possible. Bleach sometimes has many other toxins in it and even just a few mL of leftover bleach might be strong enough to cause poisoning of all kinds especially chlorine. If the bacteria die off or die back it can cause the plants to not have some or all of their nutrients.

It's really hard to say, but I'm glad it's working for you! :mrgreen:

[aquaarche]

I am going to set up my new design for the swirl filter unfortunately I don't have a video camera but I will try and take some pictures as I assemble it. if anyone wants some copies I will be happy to email them to you just send me a PM with your email.