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wolfracer
04-11-2009, 04:52 PM
I managed to kill most of my channel cats I tested for ammonia, nitrites nitrates chlorine and PH the only thing out of order was the PH at 8.4 would this kill almost all of my fish in 5 hours? I am really bummed and perplexed. what now?

JeffW
04-12-2009, 06:04 AM
Sorry about cats. I lost my last fish yesterday and that makes 30 (good thing they are cheap feeders). So no more fish for me until I know what is going wrong. So many things can happen, shock, water, temps and who knows what else.

Good news for you is your system needs to cycle anyway, I would just get by and feed your beds by hand with some worm tea or light feeding of organic compost tea with no additives just compost tea. That can also be a + because that can help kick off the culture in the beds. Maybe just run the return line into drain or large bucket for time being but not let it run into fish tank that way you can keep fish tank offline until your ready again.

Again just suggestions on my part because advice is like...well you know 8-)

I would keep the fish tank offline myself until I knew fish water and fish were stable. It is not warm enough here in my view and maybe in Kansas and the bacteria is very slow to boot up in the beds, sun can help but it sure does not happen very fast when it is only 55 or even 60 F. When it get's into 70's + the life will get better don't you think?

Again just my grain of salt, I am no expert :)

wolfracer
04-12-2009, 08:05 AM
Thanks Jeff, oh well this is all an experiment so I am going to do a 100% water change, and try some some cheap gold fish until I can keep them alive.Then I will add the channel cats. I am wondering if there was some bad stuff in that IBC or blue barrels I am using. Hopefully a 100 % water change will be enough to flush the system. Oh well off for a 50 mile drive to lowes(one way) to find a connector to be able to flush the IBC instead of just siphoning it out.

Another question that has been bothering me is I have not seen any algae growth in this system! Do you think this might indicate something wicked is going on?

badflash
04-12-2009, 09:57 AM
I suggest you get black mollies vs. goldfish. These are one of the hardest fish to kill, and a staple of tank cycling. Goldies often carry disease and can infect your system for good fish.

I don't think pH killed your cats.

JCO
04-12-2009, 11:06 AM
The very first thing for every member of this forum and anyone who reads these post to realize, as Badflash will attest...you are going to loose a sh.t load of fish and veggies before and you ever get enough experience to get it right and even then, you will still have losses....face it, you are trying to duplicate conditions like Mother Nature here and for those of you who remember the old TV commercials...."It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature".

The most you can glean from what has happened in the past is hopefully learning what went wrong which 99.99% of the time, it was usually your fault, lack of knowledge etc….to big a hurry to get the show on the road and so on. Remember..you can’t loose if you don’t give up or quit. You just become more adapt at overcoming whatever problems you encounter.

If I had all the money I spent on fish, plants and failed or unsuitable equipment that I have lost or that broke or didn't work...over the last 40 years, I would be typing this on my laptop from an isolated beach in front of my beach house in the Caymans (well maybe not quite that much but you get my drift).

Setting up an aquaponics system goes like this and it's a slow process....set up your complete aquaponics system, grow beds, fish tank/s, sumps....everything including air stones (everything just as if it were functional...minus plants and fish) throw used filter materials from an active aquarium etc. into your sump tank or fish tank (contains already established active bacteria) throw in a few fish pellets/food in the fish tank (small amount) and let the system alone and let it run for at least 72 hours. Continually check your ph and temp.

Then add your plants and let it run for another 72 hours or more. Now throw in a few of the least expensive fish (my suggestion is Green Sailfin Mollies as they are the original strain of Mollies in the wild…I use to net the out of ponds and brackish water pools when I lived in Pensacola, Fl.) your can find(make dam sure they are HEALTHY before you introduce them, keep them in a quarantine tank long enough to make sure) that will survive in the temperature of the water in your system and feed them as you would according to the temperature of the water (cool or cold..sparingly) and then walk away and stop doing anything to the system for at least a week, just keep a constant vigil on it, temperature changes, testing ph etc.

If your water temperature is constantly below about 78 then you will have to go with goldfish…use comets…they are usually the least expensive and most hardy and they don’t have to be big ones.

Don’t forget, you have to float your new fish in the intended tank/s for no less than 15 to 30 minutes to allow the water temperature in their water to adjust to the temperature of the tank/s, additionally, periodically, open the bag and allow a little of the water from the tank/s to flow into the bag with them to slowly change the ph etc of their water then release them slowly, allowing them to swim out of the bag rather than pouring the out like wash water (least stress as possible) then leave them alone for awhile so they can adjust to their new environment.

As for your situation, OK, I have no idea what was in your barrels before you acquired them...you need to find that out before you go to anymore expense..! That is first and foremost.... !

If it wasn't anything lethal, then don't worry about shutting your system down...let it run...when the weather is cool or cold, it takes bacteria awhile to get established and if you shut the system down, you will kill any that have already started establishing themselves. Additionally, even when established, they do not function well at low temperatures.

Plants can live almost forever on nothing but plain water as evidenced by placing a philodendron vine in a glass of water on a window sill and watch the glass fill up with roots and the vine crawl all over the kitchen window (my house).

As for algae forming anywhere in your system, number one it takes awhile even with direct sunlight (and its growth rate is also controlled by water temperature) but it takes even longer with indirect or filtered sunlight. Algae is something you want to try to avoid anyway, when growing strong it can clog a system very quickly.

Relax, take your time…I’m sure if you are like me, you have much more time than money anyway, of course at my age, my pocked change is catching up with my time. :mrgreen:

wolfracer
04-12-2009, 11:36 AM
Thanks everyone for the advice!
Number 1 I have no intention on giving up! It is not in my nature.

Number 2 I probably was in to big a hurry!

I have no way to determine what was in these tanks but I will soldier on with them. I just need to move a litle slower and I am hoping the 300 + gallon flush will help with that.

I will keep you all posted.

jackalope
01-17-2010, 11:34 AM
I just have one small disagreement with the above instructions by JCO, I don't pour the water from the 'bag' into the tank .... it's a good way to transfer diseases and 'critters' that don't belong there ....... I stick a net into the bag, net them out, and carefully drop them into the tank without the net getting into the water ....... I know it may stress them a bit, but I figure better a little stress, than a lot of diseases or 'critters' ..... it ain't perfect, but I think I have less chance of transferring 'critters' or diseases than if I were to pour the water into the tank ........ just my 2 centavos .......

JCO
01-17-2010, 02:23 PM
Yours is a fair assumption, but netting a fish can also cause it injury that can lead to fungus growth on the fish so you are damned if you do and damed if you don't. :shock:

As for releasing anything into your water, if the fish is in the bag with the malady and the water came from the same location as the fish and nothing is visible to the naked eye in the water, then you can just about bet if it is something that is detremental to the fish, the fish has already been infected. :(

That's the reason for quarentening new fish for at least a week before releashing the into an established community. :mrgreen:

badflash
01-17-2010, 04:57 PM
I'm with Jackalope about the water. There are lots of uglies besides disease. In my experience, careful handling of the fish does littler damage. I net my tilapia when ever they are holding to strip the fry. I've not had a loss that I know of yet from that. I have had nasty invasions of planaria, leaches, etc. from dumping the water in though.

JCO
01-17-2010, 06:21 PM
I wasn't talking about swamp water Badflash :lol: :mrgreen:

badflash
01-17-2010, 07:05 PM
Niether was I. It came in on shrimp I got from a supposedly reputable dealer.

jackalope
01-17-2010, 09:23 PM
Yours is a fair assumption, but netting a fish can also cause it injury that can lead to fungus growth on the fish so you are damned if you do and damed if you don't. :shock:

As for releasing anything into your water, if the fish is in the bag with the malady and the water came from the same location as the fish and nothing is visible to the naked eye in the water, then you can just about bet if it is something that is detremental to the fish, the fish has already been infected. :(

That's the reason for quarentening new fish for at least a week before releashing the into an established community. :mrgreen:

I was agreeing with the quarantine idea, it's a 'must-do' as far as I am concerned, but some of the critters may live through the quarantine .... i.e. if you are treating for ICK, you might miss some flukes or other parasites since they require different medicants .... or the opposite may be true ..... my whole idea is that if you net them out of the 'bag' whether it is a hospital tank or a transfer container, you just try to prevent the water or the net from coming in contact with the 'clean' water .... it's all a personal preference thing .... I've seen people swear up and down that either way (yours or mine), is the bar-none-absolute-bestest, hands-down-guaranteed-only-way to do it :!: :lol: :lol:

jackalope
01-17-2010, 09:24 PM
I wasn't talking about swamp water Badflash :lol: :mrgreen: Good Call :lol: :lol: