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wh33t
03-16-2011, 02:51 PM
What exactly does this object do?

I think I may have made a mistake in not using one. I figured the bio filter was the flower bed that contains my hydroton. But I'm starting to think now it's some other object required in an aquaponic system?

I do have a Hang-on-back filter. But the filter I have in it is just a sponge thing that catches big solid waste particles.

Can someone give me some advice on the matters place?

Thanks for reading!

keith_r
03-16-2011, 03:27 PM
i've read lots of discussions about filtration and am working towards my own conclusions, based on the results of my "tests"
it's my understanding that your growbed is your biofilter, some argue that additional solids filtration is required, but i've seen documentation of mature systems in 3rd and 4th years of productions without cleaning, by utilizing worms in the gb's..
additional filtration (there's 2 main types, mechanical and biological), imho, both would be required if you are pushing the "fish" load on your system - my thinking is based on "rules of thumb" that are argued for/against regularly..
i'm gradually "growing" a very humble system compared to most of the "backyard" systems you see here, but it has sunfish,(some kind of bluegill) yellow perch, rosy red minnows, daphnia and scuds, i guess because i don't have enough to think about! lol

wh33t
03-16-2011, 03:47 PM
i've read lots of discussions about filtration and am working towards my own conclusions, based on the results of my "tests"
it's my understanding that your growbed is your biofilter, some argue that additional solids filtration is required, but i've seen documentation of mature systems in 3rd and 4th years of productions without cleaning, by utilizing worms in the gb's..
additional filtration (there's 2 main types, mechanical and biological), imho, both would be required if you are pushing the "fish" load on your system - my thinking is based on "rules of thumb" that are argued for/against regularly..
i'm gradually "growing" a very humble system compared to most of the "backyard" systems you see here, but it has sunfish,(some kind of bluegill) yellow perch, rosy red minnows, daphnia and scuds, i guess because i don't have enough to think about! lol

Ok, I think I'm on the right track then. I have been looking for a local source of red wrigglers. I may just go dig into my compost and see what I can find.

Nice combo! that's a lot of species in one pond. How does your feeding process work? Do you feed them separately?

JCO
03-16-2011, 04:56 PM
I have been raising Tropical Fish and Koi since 1965 and I have been at Aquaponics for the better part of 15 years and as I have said in the past, I am a purest and having said that, this is how a system is suppose to be set up.

1) Fish Tank
2) sump
3) Bio-filter
4) Growbeds

The water flows (or is pumped) form the fish tank to the sump where solids and particulates (poo) is allowed to settle to the bottom where it can be removed and put into a Vermiculture for worms or on your wife's flower garden, or at the base of your favorite trees.

The water then goes to the Bio-filter where the Ammonia, with the help of Nitrification Bacteria, is turned to Nitrites which in turn is turned to Nitrates (this is what the plants want).

Then the water is coursed to the grow beds for the plants to remove the Nitrates and return the clean water to the fish tank.

Go to a large tropical/saltwater fish store and get them to explain it and show you what and how a bio-filter works.

Some people, for reasons unknown to me (not offense meant to anyone, maybe it's money or laziness or someother reason), feel that the grow bed is the place to pump the Poo and then they throw in a hand full of worms and Wa-La, it's eaten by the worms and everything is peaches 'n cream.....untill...WAIT FOR IT..!

However I can tell you form my own experience because I have tried every idea that has ever come down the PIKE, some day down the road, a year, maybe 2, your are going find that you are no longer growing plants Aquaponically because of the sludge that has accumulate in the bottom of your grow beds. Your veggies will have been turned into BOG PLANTS. :shock: :o

Then comes the chore of shutting down your whole operation and removing all your grow media, washing it and cleaning the worm and fish poo out of the bottom of the grow bed. :(

And let me tell you, it's not only not a pretty site, but it stinks to high heaven and then you have to find some place to put the stinky mess because if you throw it out in the yard, you are going to have to cover it up or the neighbors will be up in arms. :x

Now you do as most AP'ers do and make up you own mind how you are going to set it up and....WAIT FOR IT...! :mrgreen:

wh33t
03-16-2011, 05:27 PM
I have been raising Tropical Fish and Koi since 1965 and I have been at Aquaponics for the better part of 15 years and as I have said in the past, I am a purest and having said that, this is how a system is suppose to be set up.

1) Fish Tank
2) sump
3) Bio-filter
4) Growbeds

The water flows (or is pumped) form the fish tank to the sump where solids and particulates (poo) is allowed to settle to the bottom where it can be removed and put into a Vermiculture for worms or on your wife's flower garden, or at the base of your favorite trees.

The water then goes to the Bio-filter where the Ammonia, with the help of Nitrification Bacteria, is turned to Nitrites which in turn is turned to Nitrates (this is what the plants want).

Then the water is coursed to the grow beds for the plants to remove the Nitrates and return the clean water to the fish tank.

Go to a large tropical/saltwater fish store and get them to explain it and show you what and how a bio-filter works.

Some people, for reasons unknown to me (not offense meant to anyone, maybe it's money or laziness or someother reason), feel that the grow bed is the place to pump the Poo and then they throw in a hand full of worms and Wa-La, it's eaten by the worms and everything is peaches 'n cream.....untill...WAIT FOR IT..!

However I can tell you form my own experience because I have tried every idea that has ever come down the PIKE, some day down the road, a year, maybe 2, your are going find that you are no longer growing plants Aquaponically because of the sludge that has accumulate in the bottom of your grow beds. Your veggies will have been turned into BOG PLANTS. :shock: :o

Then comes the chore of shutting down your whole operation and removing all your grow media, washing it and cleaning the worm and fish poo out of the bottom of the grow bed. :(

And let me tell you, it's not only not a pretty site, but it stinks to high heaven and then our have to find some place to put the stinky mess because if you throw it out in the yard, you are going to have to cover it up or the neighbors will be up in arms. :x

Now you do as most AP'ers do and make up you own mind how you are going to set it up and....WAIT FOR IT...! :mrgreen:

Never has Aquaponics been so easily explained. I have seen videos of Sumps and wondered what they were for. Now I know!

So if the grow bed is not the bio filter, then I presume it's some other object that I can build or purchase? Preferably build?

So would you, in all of your experience, ever suggest putting in worms to help digest solid wastes in the grow bed?

JCO
03-16-2011, 06:39 PM
You can create a bio-filter out of any number of things; plastic storage tubs form Wal-Mart, aquariums or you can purchase one. You just need to make sure it is the correct size for the amount of Nitrates that has to be processed. As of the worms, I have in the past but after having to spend almost a week cleaning up the mess in addition to my system being non-operational all that time, the answer is an emphatic NO..! :mrgreen:

wh33t
03-16-2011, 07:10 PM
You can create a bio-filter out of any number of things; plastic storage tubs form Wal-Mart, aquariums or you can purchase one. You just need to make sure it is the correct size for the amount of Nitrates that has to be processed. As of the worms, I have in the past but after having to spend almost a week cleaning up the mess in addition to my system being non-operational all that time, the answer is an emphatic NO..! :mrgreen:

Excellent, I shall do some research on the filters.

Lemme ask you another question related to filtration. Is it true that established Aquaponic systems do not get root rot?

wh33t
03-17-2011, 01:57 AM
You can create a bio-filter out of any number of things; plastic storage tubs form Wal-Mart, aquariums or you can purchase one. You just need to make sure it is the correct size for the amount of Nitrates that has to be processed. As of the worms, I have in the past but after having to spend almost a week cleaning up the mess in addition to my system being non-operational all that time, the answer is an emphatic NO..! :mrgreen:

I was thinking a little more about adding worms. What stuff is it that builds up in the flower bed that you are referring too? If you have red worms in your flower bed that eat the solid fish waste what else could be in there?

urbanfarmer
03-17-2011, 04:08 AM
I was thinking a little more about adding worms. What stuff is it that builds up in the flower bed that you are referring too? If you have red worms in your flower bed that eat the solid fish waste what else could be in there?
I just noticed you keep saying flower bed. Are you growing flowers in your grow bed; hence, you are saying flower bed? Just curious :D

I have red wigglers in my grow bed OUTDOORS. Yes, you will get all sorts of critters in your grow bed, and they come and go sometimes. One thing I noticed is if I plug the siphon and let the bed flood just above the top of the gravel, a lot of critters fly or crawl out to avoid the water. I am sure there are many more than that, that don't even come up. Fruit fly seem to lay their eggs and hang out there too. Although they are a pest, the maggots are good at breaking down the fish poo and other solids faster than the worms or bacteria do. The sludge/poo the maggots leave behind gets eaten up by the worms and bacteria much faster than before they processed it. There are a ton of examples of these kinds of food pyramids in your grow bed, and I am sure you will discover lots of them in time.

INDOORS, I don't think you will get many critters in your grow bed. You can still throw some worms in there, but from what I recall they didn't hold up too well in the hydroton. You should wait until your plants have established a good root system, and then put the worms near the roots. Otherwise, they will get washed down to the fish (which still happens anyway, but most of them stay in the roots). And yes, your fish will devour the worms once their mouth is big enough to go for the kill (they'll try even if it's not).

wh33t
03-17-2011, 01:28 PM
Yes, I use the terms interchangeably. I will try to say "grow bed" from now on because I am trying to grow basil and some parsley and mint.

If the worms can reproduce in the grow bed, then that would be cool to feed the fish the excess worms! However, I was getting from user JCO that worms were no good and he seems to suggest a Bio Filter instead of resorting to worms in the grow bed.

cedarswamp
03-17-2011, 01:47 PM
I just noticed you keep saying flower bed. Are you growing flowers in your grow bed; hence, you are saying flower bed? Just curious :D

Don't all plants eventually flower? :lol:

badflash
03-17-2011, 06:35 PM
No. Flowering plants are just one side shoot of the plant kingdom. Ferns never flower as an example. Algae fission, many reproduce vegetatively.

cedarswamp
03-17-2011, 08:05 PM
I know, I was just messing with UF. But algae does "bloom". :lol:

rfeiller
03-17-2011, 11:15 PM
besides fish poop, you have left over fish food and plant parts expecially roots, that eventually die and break down in the system. these form a risidual muck. i have, besides having sumps, used the gravel as a filter now i will tear these down and do a complete sump prior to entering the grow bed. i'll keep the worms in just the sump where it can be controlled. i believe the organics breaking down are a nutritional benefit to the plants, but i want cleaner grow beds.

wh33t
03-17-2011, 11:53 PM
besides fish poop, you have left over fish food and plant parts expecially roots, that eventually die and break down in the system. these form a risidual muck. i have, besides having sumps, used the gravel as a filter now i will tear these down and do a complete sump prior to entering the grow bed. i'll keep the worms in just the sump where it can be controlled. i believe the organics breaking down are a nutritional benefit to the plants, but i want cleaner grow beds.

Makes sense. I like simple things. A sump and a bio filter makes sense to me as well.

Do Bio Filters have to be powered by an air pump?

swamp creek farms
03-18-2011, 02:29 PM
check into a swirl filter. i have pictures posted on how i made one from next to nothing. It worked for a while, but then it gets clogged up with gunk and has to be cleaned as well. I found out for myself that it is a hassle to have a bio filter. There is no sure way to do AP. Some ideas work for others and not work for me. I have no sump in my system either. Some worms in the GB but not alot.


http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/ph ... ew35o033wi (http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/photo/listForContributor?screenName=2heew35o033wi)

the pics are some where in my photo album. the bio filter was made out of a 5gal bucket, a pot for plants, and dish scrubbies. I think i had less than 10 bucks in the whole thing. But i made it with the plant pot so i can clean it easier. All i had to do was pull the pot out of the bucket, and wash the scrubbies out, without having to disassemble the whole thing.

I am still considering on putting one on the new system i am building now. I just remember it being a hassle. (clogging pipes)

wh33t
03-18-2011, 03:13 PM
check into a swirl filter. i have pictures posted on how i made one from next to nothing. It worked for a while, but then it gets clogged up with gunk and has to be cleaned as well. I found out for myself that it is a hassle to have a bio filter. There is no sure way to do AP. Some ideas work for others and not work for me. I have no sump in my system either. Some worms in the GB but not alot.


http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/ph ... ew35o033wi (http://aquaponicscommunity.com/photo/photo/listForContributor?screenName=2heew35o033wi)

the pics are some where in my photo album. the bio filter was made out of a 5gal bucket, a pot for plants, and dish scrubbies. I think i had less than 10 bucks in the whole thing. But i made it with the plant pot so i can clean it easier. All i had to do was pull the pot out of the bucket, and wash the scrubbies out, without having to disassemble the whole thing.

I am still considering on putting one on the new system i am building now. I just remember it being a hassle. (clogging pipes)

Darn, those pictures look pretty cool. But are so small. Would you mind uploading some photos of them to the forum and putting some captions on them. I'm interested in the swirl filter.

swamp creek farms
03-21-2011, 07:02 AM
http://www.ecofilms.com.au/2010/08/20/d ... quaponics/ (http://www.ecofilms.com.au/2010/08/20/diy-swirl-filter-for-aquaponics/)

that is a basic idea of how one works, or you can always look it up on youtube. I just came up with a way to make one with stuff i found laying around the farm. All i had to buy was the filter medium, i used plastic brillo pads - a package for a buck. I ended up using seashells also.

I am thinking about making another one out of a 30 gallon drum. Just need to figure a way to back wash the solids out into the wicking bed or some dirt beds. Any easier way to clean it.

wh33t
03-21-2011, 01:25 PM
http://www.ecofilms.com.au/2010/08/20/diy-swirl-filter-for-aquaponics/

that is a basic idea of how one works, or you can always look it up on youtube. I just came up with a way to make one with stuff i found laying around the farm. All i had to buy was the filter medium, i used plastic brillo pads - a package for a buck. I ended up using seashells also.

I am thinking about making another one out of a 30 gallon drum. Just need to figure a way to back wash the solids out into the wicking bed or some dirt beds. Any easier way to clean it.

Wow that is great. I will build one of those.

aquaarche
03-23-2011, 09:23 PM
I found the need for bio-filters because in both the gravel or float beds the roots get covered in a brown gunk that limit their growth and take up of nutrients.

I found using a pre-pump filter and a post-pump filter helps remove a lot of material small and large solids from the water.

keith_r
03-24-2011, 06:44 AM
hey aquaarche, have you tried putting some composting worms into your system?

rfeiller
03-27-2011, 08:05 PM
to backwash your filter install a three way valve.

grimsteph
03-30-2011, 03:43 PM
[quote="wh33t"]
Ok, I think I'm on the right track then. I have been looking for a local source of red wrigglers. I may just go dig into my compost and see what I can find.[quote]

They have them in the fishing/sporting goods area at Walmart.

wh33t
03-31-2011, 04:54 PM
Ok, I think I'm on the right track then. I have been looking for a local source of red wrigglers. I may just go dig into my compost and see what I can find.


They have them in the fishing/sporting goods area at Walmart.

Our Walmart doesn't have that kind of section. But I'm sure any fishing/hunting store would! Thanks for the tips!

rfeiller
03-31-2011, 07:47 PM
you might check out the type of worms that are grown in your area for composting that are better adapt to your climate.
and without a doubt there will be in some species of worm in your compost pile

keith_r
04-01-2011, 05:34 AM
bait shops are likely to have them as well

urbanfarmer
05-05-2011, 08:45 AM
I order mine online from Amazon. Uncle Jim's worm farm is a GREAT merchant to buy from on there. You can try his website, but I think the prices are better on Amazon...

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Wiggler-Compo ... 001ONZIWM/ (http://www.amazon.com/Red-Wiggler-Composting-Worms-Pack/dp/B001ONZIWM/)

They used to sell 1 pound of worms, but I don't see it. Regardless, this is about 70% cheaper than directly from uncle Jim's website. He is a reseller, but it comes from Uncle Jim and they guarantee live delivery. I had 2 pounds spoil on me, and they sent another 2 pounds without any trouble at all. They really stand behind their product!

MY recent purchase :mrgreen:
these are European Nightcrawlers (Eisenia hortensis), and I would not recommend them for your grow bed or composting, they do compost, but I want them to use for fishing, they seem real finicky and are not as TOUGH as red wigglers, not by a long shot

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/2333/sspx0077.jpg

JCO
05-06-2011, 06:21 PM
So, what's for lunch... :?: :lol: :mrgreen:

urbanfarmer
05-06-2011, 07:41 PM
So, what's for lunch... :?: :lol: :mrgreen:
High protein SPAGHETTI, don't ask why it's moving...

rfeiller
05-06-2011, 08:10 PM
Hey, in the mid seventies there was a multilevel scam for red wrigglers. They marketed hamburgers made of red wrigglers. High protein. Never tried any worm burgers, but ended up with thousands and thousands of red wrigglers from my father in law that lost five grand on the deal. The company was to buy all the worms he could produce. He had 32 8x16 beds full and the company never bought a single worm.

aquaarche
05-06-2011, 09:05 PM
Hey, in the mid seventies there was a multilevel scam for red wrigglers. They marketed hamburgers made of red wrigglers. High protein. Never tried any worm burgers, but ended up with thousands and thousands of red wrigglers from my father in law that lost five grand on the deal. The company was to buy all the worms he could produce. He had 32 8x16 beds full and the company never bought a single worm.


Sounds like your dad could have pursued a law suit back then. But hey if all else fails pack them in little containers of saw dust and sell them to a local bait shop. or along side the road on the way to the fishing holes. even bring some with you when you go fishing and sell to the fishermen around you or in the camp site

urbanfarmer
05-06-2011, 09:30 PM
Hey, in the mid seventies there was a multilevel scam for red wrigglers. They marketed hamburgers made of red wrigglers. High protein. Never tried any worm burgers, but ended up with thousands and thousands of red wrigglers from my father in law that lost five grand on the deal. The company was to buy all the worms he could produce. He had 32 8x16 beds full and the company never bought a single worm.


Sounds like your dad could have pursued a law suit back then. But hey if all else fails pack them in little containers of saw dust and sell them to a local bait shop. or along side the road on the way to the fishing holes. even bring some with you when you go fishing and sell to the fishermen around you or in the camp site
From what I understand, back in those days there were no laws preventing these kinds of scams...

rfeiller
05-06-2011, 10:59 PM
the company took the money, filed bankruptcy and vanished into probably some tropical paradise!
i have had worm bins ever since :D
not from the original stock that was in texas

aquaarche
08-21-2011, 12:58 AM
The guys at Urbanfamers.com have a great design for cone swirl filter it is part of a four part filtration system for their aquaponic system they have 1,000 fish tank with the grow bed on top.

Are any of the members here with the urban farmers guys?