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wh33t
03-11-2011, 10:58 PM
Hello DIYAQUA!

I did the green house thing last year as part of my Personal Greenification. This year I was going to do some more raised beds and then a friend suggested I just skip raise beds and do a raised pond. After he explained to me what Aquaponics was I just knew I had to get my feet wet! So here I am with lots of questions. If you could answer any of them I would be ever grateful.

1.) Turtles / Crayfish (fresh water prawns) / Fish? Which are easier to use? So far I'm leaning towards turtles. Apparently they are more resilient to ammonia build up and other environmental changes.

2.) Assuming I'm growing fish, what is the ideal water temperature I am wanting to grow?

3.) How many fish do I need to produce food for a plant?

4.) Does the Nitrifying bacteria grow on it's own? Or do I need to add it? Should I regularly add it?

5.) What do you feed the fish? If you feed them fish flakes and other common food for fish, doesn't that mean you are indirectly eating sunlight and fish flakes in the veggies that grow out of it?

6.) How do you check for ammonia ppm?

7.) I have read that Aquaponics is great for nitrogen heavy vegetables such as spinach and basil. What if I want to grow some food that is phosphorus heavy as well? Such as a tomato or cucumber? Is it possible to add chemical fertilizers in small quantities to the pond? How much is too much etc?

8.) If I grow fish in the pond, will they taste good? My friends tell me that they don't think the Talapia everyone is growing would taste "fresh". Any personal experiences to share?

9.) Do we allow/permit/encourage the fish to breed in the water? Will they do it on their own?

10.) How often do you run the water pump to feed the plants?

11.) Can the plants be over fertilized? I'm sure they can be under fertilized.

12.) From the guide I have read on this site, it says that heavier fish waste will sink towards the bottom of the tank/pond. It can be collected and used on a compost pile to encourage worm growth, which can then be fed back to the fish. Is there an elegant way to collect heavy fish waste? Pool vacuum or something?

13.) Is it common to have water top off systems that keep the water at the optimal level? As the water level goes down from feeding the plants and through evaporation does the ph/ppm balance go out? Does this need to be watched over?

14.) How much work is it in comparison to conventional gardening in terms of yield, renew-ability, and maintenance.

That's all the major questions I can think of off the top of my head! Thank you very much for reading! I look forward to any and all responses.

davidstcldfl
03-12-2011, 05:21 AM
Hi wh33t ....welcome to the forum... :-)

One thing that will help determine what you might want to raise, is 'where' you live. If your up-north, you may not want to try tilapia, as they need the water to be pretty warm, even in the winter. Even in central FL, I've had to heat the water some.

If you at least post a general area of where your located, that will be a big help. Others in your area may be able to share the pro's and con's of certain things, specific to your area. Plus, you might even get to meet up with a few and check out some set ups in person.

wh33t
03-12-2011, 02:19 PM
Hi wh33t ....welcome to the forum... :-)

One thing that will help determine what you might want to raise, is 'where' you live. If your up-north, you may not want to try tilapia, as they need the water to be pretty warm, even in the winter. Even in central FL, I've had to heat the water some.

If you at least post a general area of where your located, that will be a big help. Others in your area may be able to share the pro's and con's of certain things, specific to your area. Plus, you might even get to meet up with a few and check out some set ups in person.

Great point! I never even thought of that. I guess that's because I figured I would start small and have it inside. I'm on the west coast of BC near Vancouver. There is lots of rivers and lakes here with lots of life to choose from. No Tilapia though.

rfeiller
03-12-2011, 08:18 PM
welcome to the forum.

wh33t
03-12-2011, 08:26 PM
Hey guys!

I just joined the site yesterday and I have been researching as much as I can. I have started small this time (kind of unusual for me) with a 10Gallon tank and 10 feeder goldfish. The lady at the pet store told me they were the most resilient species they had in the store and because I'm experimenting it wouldn't be a drastic financial loss if they perished in the experiment. I will however, do my best to ensure that they live and are vibrant and healthy, after all, they are living creatures in my care.

So I've got a 10 Gallon tank, 10 gold fish, the water is sitting at ph 7.3, ppm is 20, temp is 22C. Does any of this need to change? I have put in tap water which has a bit of a chlorine smell, the pet store lady informed me it would be a good idea to use some dechlorinator. I have used this (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... Prime.html (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html)) in it's proper mixing requirements. I let it sit for about 15 minutes and the fish appear to be swimming happily. I also pinched them a small bit of fish food.

The fish tank has no gravel in it. just a shiny reflective bottom. Is this ok? I've got a big air stone in it and it's pumping air pretty good. I've also got two 13w CFL lights illuminating the tank, is that too much for Gold fish? I think this tank used to be used for a reptile.

So what I'm curious to know is.

1.) Where do I get the bacteria required to turn fish poop into plant food? Does it grow on it's own automatically?
2.) When can I start growing a plant in/on/above this sucker?
3.) If I use a raft style grow technique, will the fish eat the roots? I was thinking about trying some basil first. Apparently that's a heavy nitrogen plant.

thanks for reading!

wh33t
03-12-2011, 08:26 PM
Thanks guys! I just got my starter tank up and running!

>> 10 Goldfish... now what? (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?814-10-Goldfish-now-what)

urbanfarmer
03-12-2011, 08:43 PM
What is at a 20 ppm??????

I don't like to use extra chemicals in my aquaponic systems... sometimes they can introduce carcinogens or poisons into your system... To dechlorinate the water, you can just let the water sit with a bubbler in it for about 24 to 48 hours and the chlorine will volatilize into the air. Check your local water municipal source. If you have chloramine, then it's a different story altogether.

The product you used does not seem to state what is in it. The only warning I see is: "Do not introduce to drinking water or foodstuffs. Wash hands after use, wear gloves if exposure is prolonged." My guess is DO NOT GROW FOOD IN THIS WATER BECAUSE YOU PUT A POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS CHEMICAL IN IT!!!

MSDS is pretty secretive:
http://www.seachem.com/support/MSDS/Prime.doc.pdf

1) Yes.
2) Just about anything. I would suggest starting with leafy greens like lettuce or herbs. They tend to be easier to grow.
3) Some fish eat the roots and some don't. Most likely with those small goldfish, you should be okay.

wh33t
03-12-2011, 08:47 PM
My EC meter tells me the water in the tank is at 20ppm. The tap water is often 10ppm or so. I figure the equipment I'm using might have had some dirt on it or something. Or possibly the Dechlorinator added an extra 10ppm. It could actually be 11ppm, but my meter always rounds up to the nearest ten. Is this a concern?

Also, my second question wasn't what could I grow in it, but when can I start growing veggies in it? Do I need to wait for the water to smell a bit?

wh33t
03-12-2011, 08:48 PM
Also, the lady that suggested I use the PRIME said it was necessary in our town. So I presume I have Chloramine in the water.

JCO
03-13-2011, 06:55 AM
Welcome to the show....pull up an easy chair, relax and stay awhile. New voices are always a welcome addition to our family..! Whatever questions you have on you mind, this is the place to get the answers so pick a topic of your interest and start your own thread and Enjoy.

Since it sounds like you are brand new to Aquaponics and really don't have a clue as to how it all works (no offense intended), I would suggest you go to this link in the forum and start reading.

http://diyaquaponics.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=112

Then if you still have more questions about things you don't understand, then start with the questions.

If you have not done it already, PLEASE update your profile to indicate what Country City and State or Province you live in. :mrgreen:

rfeiller
03-13-2011, 01:37 PM
Welcome to the forum. You are lucky your water is very soft, much better for plants sand your goldfish. Read about nitrification, your fish are about to get hammered with ammonia. As you will read you can set up your system for nitrification several different ways.

wh33t
03-13-2011, 02:29 PM
I read the 4 primer guides. I'm kind of confused though. That's a lot of information.

I gathered from the 4th guide that my PH should be lowering as my fish get used to their new environment and begin eating. My ph is actually rising. It's 7.7 and occasionally dips back down to 7.6. My PPMs are 20. My Fish look happy :D I do not have the flood and drain system connected yet.

What should I do next? Get a bio filter? Start cycling the water through hydroton?

Edit: I've also updated my profile to state where I'm located. My tank is inside anyways though.

wh33t
03-14-2011, 01:02 AM
Ok guys, well I went ahead today and purchased some plumbing parts.

I built a bell siphon which seems to work pretty good. Although once in a while it gets stuck in this weird pump-siphon loop where the siphon just doesn't seem to break. I think it happens when the clay pebbles get stuck in in the holes. I'm going to build some kind of mesh thing around it so that can't happen anymore.

I'm going to attach two files.

keith_r
03-14-2011, 06:25 AM
nice little system there! my ph took 8+ months to drop from 7.6/7.8 down to 6.6. i say at least 8 months because it was pretty steady from may to november, and my next test in feb is when it showed the drop

urbanfarmer
03-14-2011, 10:31 AM
Many factors can affect the pH. For a new system, I would suggest keeping the pH JUST UNDER 7.0 because this will prevent unionized ammonia in the water (which is what kills fish). This will make the bacteria take a little longer to reproduce, but the plants will pick up some of the slack by absorbing some of the ammonia directly anyway. Shoot for a pH of 6.8 to 7.0. Alternatively, you can just let the system run wild and "Darwinize" the fish. The hardier fish will survive, and you can replace the weaker ones at 20 cents a fish... The remaining fish should handle the extremes of an experimental AP system much better :-)

RS_
03-14-2011, 12:22 PM
wh33t,

With as small a system as you have, you can get a Activated Charcoal Filter from the hardware store, to run the Tap water through to remove most of the Chlorine or chlormides before using the water in your System....... Vs using the Dechlore. chems. Be sure to let the Tap water trickle through the Filter Very Slow, so the the Dwell time is long enough to remove most of the nasties......

wh33t
03-14-2011, 01:27 PM
Many factors can affect the pH. For a new system, I would suggest keeping the pH JUST UNDER 7.0 because this will prevent unionized ammonia in the water (which is what kills fish). This will make the bacteria take a little longer to reproduce, but the plants will pick up some of the slack by absorbing some of the ammonia directly anyway. Shoot for a pH of 6.8 to 7.0. Alternatively, you can just let the system run wild and "Darwinize" the fish. The hardier fish will survive, and you can replace the weaker ones at 20 cents a fish... The remaining fish should handle the extremes of an experimental AP system much better :-)

I think I'm gonna have to go with the Darwin thing. The PH is sitting at 7.7 right now. It's going up and down a point or two. It's just a test experiment. I do want all of my fish to survive though. I have some basil that is gonna be going in shortly too.

wh33t
03-14-2011, 01:51 PM
Many factors can affect the pH. For a new system, I would suggest keeping the pH JUST UNDER 7.0 because this will prevent unionized ammonia in the water (which is what kills fish). This will make the bacteria take a little longer to reproduce, but the plants will pick up some of the slack by absorbing some of the ammonia directly anyway. Shoot for a pH of 6.8 to 7.0. Alternatively, you can just let the system run wild and "Darwinize" the fish. The hardier fish will survive, and you can replace the weaker ones at 20 cents a fish... The remaining fish should handle the extremes of an experimental AP system much better :-)

Can I grow plants in water that has PH around 8? I didn't think I could.

badflash
03-14-2011, 07:36 PM
Sure, you just need to find the right plants. Check for plants adapted to high pH.

wh33t
03-14-2011, 07:51 PM
Sure, you just need to find the right plants. Check for plants adapted to high pH.

Well I was hoping to grow Basil, Bok Choy, Maybe some Mint. If I choose to grow a plant that will tolerate high PH, will it keep the PH high or bring it back down?

rfeiller
03-14-2011, 09:31 PM
the greater the amount of organics in the water the stronger acidic buffers will become. on a closed system eventually the alkalline buffers will be overcome by the acidic buffers. depending on the ppm of alkalinity will determine how quickly these buffers will be broken down. if you want to break down the alkaline buffers and do not want to use acid, you can put acidic peat (pH of 4) in the system. for many veggies a pH of 5.4 to 6.3 is preferred. as badflash said there are plants that are cultivated to withstand higher pH's. the goldfish will not have a problem with any pH from 5-8.5. it is the plants ability to take up nutrients that are bound up as the pH becomes more alkaline (or base).

wh33t
03-14-2011, 09:42 PM
Is there any reason I shouldn't use chemical PH down? Where do I get acidic peat? How do I apply it?

urbanfarmer
03-14-2011, 10:35 PM
Sure, you just need to find the right plants. Check for plants adapted to high pH.

Well I was hoping to grow Basil, Bok Choy, Maybe some Mint. If I choose to grow a plant that will tolerate high PH, will it keep the PH high or bring it back down?

Those mint roots are going to go crazy on you. Enjoy the grow! :mrgreen:

There are several things you can do, but with a pH of 7.7 you will be okay to grow any of those. Those are all easy to grow, and they will definitely grow in that pH. Just play with it for now. You won't have much of a problem at that pH, and you will probably never notice until you have some experience under your belt as far as what a plant looks like under perfect conditions! :D Trust me, it WILL grow and since it's your first time you will think it's the best in the world until the next time you grow some basil and it comes out even bigger, faster, smellier! Have fun with it, monitor the pH so you can see what does what. Feel free to ask us questions as you go, and we can help demystify things for you; so that, you can learn and do it better.

Nutrient availability chart at different pH
http://www.homemadehydroponic.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/nutrient-ph-range.jpg

wh33t
03-14-2011, 10:41 PM
Sure, you just need to find the right plants. Check for plants adapted to high pH.

Well I was hoping to grow Basil, Bok Choy, Maybe some Mint. If I choose to grow a plant that will tolerate high PH, will it keep the PH high or bring it back down?

Those mint roots are going to go crazy on you. Enjoy the grow! :mrgreen:

There are several things you can do, but with a pH of 7.7 you will be okay to grow any of those. Those are all easy to grow, and they will definitely grow in that pH. Just play with it for now. You won't have much of a problem at that pH, and you will probably never notice until you have some experience under your belt as far as what a plant looks like under perfect conditions! :D Trust me, it WILL grow and since it's your first time you will think it's the best in the world until the next time you grow some basil and it comes out even bigger, faster, smellier! Have fun with it, monitor the pH so you can see what does what. Feel free to ask us questions as you go, and we can help demystify things for you; so that, you can learn and do it better.

Nutrient availability chart at different pH
http://www.homemadehydroponic.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/nutrient-ph-range.jpg

That is an unbelievably awesome image. Thank you very much for the information!

Another question. I have some seeds in some rock wool cubes that are germinating. Should I plunk those into my clay flower bed? Or should I wait till they sprout?

urbanfarmer
03-14-2011, 11:10 PM
Is the clay flower bed outside? I assume this is not for your aquaponic system? If so, depends on the temperatures. If there is no risk of frost, then outside is fine. Otherwise, wait until there is no risk of frost.

urbanfarmer
03-14-2011, 11:14 PM
Is there any reason I shouldn't use chemical PH down? Where do I get acidic peat? How do I apply it?
You can use HCl or hydrochloric acid, which you can probably find at your pool or hardware store sold as Muriatic Acid. PLEASE, be EXTRA careful and read ALL directions. Depending on the concentration, this stuff can literally melt your face off. Don't smell it, and always pour SLOWLY. HCl pretty much has no buffer capacity for your pH; so, you will see it drop. A gallon of this stuff usually runs less than $10 and is found in concentrations from 10% to over 30%. You won't need much to change your pH... but again, I would suggest just letting the system sit without messing with it much.

wh33t
03-14-2011, 11:36 PM
Is there any reason I shouldn't use chemical PH down? Where do I get acidic peat? How do I apply it?
You can use HCl or hydrochloric acid, which you can probably find at your pool or hardware store sold as Muriatic Acid. PLEASE, be EXTRA careful and read ALL directions. Depending on the concentration, this stuff can literally melt your face off. Don't smell it, and always pour SLOWLY. HCl pretty much has no buffer capacity for your pH; so, you will see it drop. A gallon of this stuff usually runs less than $10 and is found in concentrations from 10% to over 30%. You won't need much to change your pH... but again, I would suggest just letting the system sit without messing with it much.

This "is" my Aquaponics system. And it is inside. If I do not need to lower my PH with PH-down ( I am familiar with the stuff, thank you for your safety words :D ) then I will not bother. However, if my PH rises about 8.25 will I be ok? Is there any chance it might do that?

keith_r
03-15-2011, 06:11 AM
you'll be fine, the ph will drop on it's own

wh33t
03-15-2011, 01:56 PM
you'll be fine, the ph will drop on it's own

Thank you for your advice :D :mrgreen:

keith_r
03-15-2011, 04:13 PM
i'm still trying to wrap my head around the nitrification process, but it will bring it down

urbanfarmer
03-15-2011, 08:45 PM
i'm still trying to wrap my head around the nitrification process, but it will bring it down
Yep, you are right. When the bacteria break down the nitrogenous compounds they release a proton into the water, more easily understood as a positive hydrogen ion (H+) and will thereby lower the pH in time.

shannoneka
05-22-2011, 11:41 AM
Hi wh33t nice to have someone else who is new as well I just joined myself I am currently reading through all the diy self guides suggested by JCO seems like a lot of dos and donts but im up for a good challenge any day is your system up and running and how is it working have you been having trouble any input would be helpful thanks

wh33t
05-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Hi wh33t nice to have someone else who is new as well I just joined myself I am currently reading through all the diy self guides suggested by JCO seems like a lot of dos and donts but im up for a good challenge any day is your system up and running and how is it working have you been having trouble any input would be helpful thanks

Hey there, for some reason I never got an email from the site telling me someone had replied to it! The AP system is up and working and running and my feet are certainly wet now (so to speak) lol.

The only real issues I've had were with space. I have my system indoors under some fluorescent lights. When I started the weather was cold outside so there was no way I could have put it outside, but now that it's a little nicer out I wish it were on my deck and I may make that happen shortly. 10 gold fish, and 10 gallons just simply isn't enough growing power if you ask me, but for the starter experiment I required at the time it was perfect. Fluorescent are great for starting stuff indoors and they might be good for some leafy veggies too, but I never let the veggies run long enough inside, I always put them outside because there is more room. I've just been transplanting them into dirt from my AP system.

There is some incredible dvds you absolutely must watch by a guy named Murray Hallam. Find his Dvd's and watch them. Aquaponics Secrets and Aquaponics the first 12 months are the ones you should get a hold of.

Some interesting things I've learned about AP since I started is that it's a gradual thing which is a lot different than the rapid set up and take down and reset of hydroponics or soil-less gardening. The longer your AP system runs the better it gets as the eco-system improves.

AP really gave me a strong sense of nature and it's just so beautiful. I plan to scale up my entire back yard (kids don't play in it anyways and I hate mowing the lawn) into a big AP facility. I'm still not big on fresh water fish, but I'm toying with the idea of crayfish.