Nutrient Deficiency

[urbanfarmer]

Hi Fellas,

I often think of you guys in my Master Gardener course because I have been able to learn, discuss, and share Aquaponics on this forum with all of you. My love for Aquaponics did not start here, but the seed of passion was firmly planted in the trenches of the forum threads and has firmly taken root. Through our conversations and sharing of information I have grown in both my knowledge and wisdom of Aquaponics. I want to express a warm thank you to those of you that have supported my addiction, and have shown me the patience to help me learn.

Thank you! :mrgreen:

With that said, someone had previously posted some really great links on nutrient deficiencies, but this information is so much more concise and provides a process to diagnose! It is also directly from the University of Florida. For those of you in the Sunshine State, this is also official information from your local Master Gardener's. ENJOY!

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getScreenImage&oid=4655957

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getScreenImage&oid=6328852

In case that does not show: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ss530 (Publication #SL 318)

GLOSSARY
Necrotic - death of cells or tissues
Chlorotic - a condition in which leaves produce insufficient chlorophyll
Interveinal - situated or occurring between the plant veins

[badflash]

I love it! Thanks for the key!
I've made this a sticky. Please define some of the terms that some may not know.

[urbanfarmer]

Updated! :mrgreen:

[rfeiller]

very good, thanks

[urbanfarmer]

USEFUL PICTURES: http://5e.plantphys.net/printer.php?ch=5&id=289

[WAbedroomponics]

how can I add the diffrent nutrients to my system?

[urbanfarmer]

how can I add the diffrent nutrients to my system?
There are a lot of ways. Plant nutrients take many, many forms. There are of course some more common ways. For example, potassium can be added by using wood ash from a fire. The possibilities are endless.

[WAbedroomponics]

ok I am just putting together my personal aquaponics journal so I know what to do when things come up. I know crushed eggshell helps with calcium (which can also help ripening), Bannana peel helps with potassium (wich also can help flowering), non-galvinized nails help with iron, zinc galvinized nails help with zinc, and i assume a peice of copper would help with copper

I am not positive on these I would really like to know if I am wrong because I really don't wana mess up my system..... again

[foodchain]

don't put copper in there. Your fish will not like you. Any heavy metals in high concentrations will have sobering results with your fish.

[keith_r]

avoid zinc as well..
maxicrop with iron (a quart is pretty cheap on amazon and will last quite a while) is great for treating plants.. either as a foliar spray or by adding a small amount to your water - i used 1 cap in a 100 gal ft/100gb system, maybe every 2 weeks to start, then less.. i add a cap now, every 6 weeks or so..

[WAbedroomponics]

Ok this is why I ask thanks guys. Is there any other elements I can improve for?

[keith_r]

once the system matures, you shouldn't really have to add anything, unless dealing with a specific problem.. worry about it if the time comes..

[WAbedroomponics]

Dang autocorrect I meant to say improvise. Ok I just am trying to set up a journal so I can know what to do as soon as it happens and so I know what to do if I am not able to ask you guys.

[keith_r]

just keep an eye on your plants and fish, worry when something "isn't right" - and then start investigating the cause and treatment.. lots of folks in different forums can help with a wide range of questions..

[WAbedroomponics]

Ok what other forums would you suggest?

[bsfman]

For example, potassium can be added by using wood ash from a fire.

Not saying don't do this. Urbanfarmer is correct. Wood ashes WILL boost potassium levels. But they are EXTREMELY caustic and can raise your pH levels very rapidly, so be circumspect and scientific if you choose this route!

One of my other hobbies is homemade cold process soap making. Wood ashes soaked in water have been used for centuries in place of lye in soap making. A five gallon bucket filled with ashes and water can burn your hands just like lye! I routinely save my natural lump charcoal ashes from my grill, soak them in water and use the solution sparingly on my bananna trees which are phosphorus hogs. But I also have to use sprinkled sulpher in addition to the ash water when i do so in order to keep the soil pH from rising too high. Out of curiosity, I once rendered several gallons of wood ash water into a significant quantity of sodium carbonate and nearly a half ounce (by volume) of potassium carbonate (pure potash). Both are highly caustic.

Best bet is to make the ash/water solution, measure the pH, then calculate how much of a pH increase the addition of the ash water will cause, then add it SLOWLY - over time - so as not to screw up your system's pH all at once!

Just sayin'...

[WAbedroomponics]

That's really helpful I will remember that thank you

[alex281]

Couldn't have read this at a better time, turns out my eggplant is showing some signs of potassium deficiency :( Hopefully the maxicrop +iron will help me out a little. I also need to get this stupid ph under control.

[keith_r]

be very careful messing with the ph.. what is your ph at now?
big changes can stress the fish, which makes the fish more vulnerable to sickness/disease.

ph in the high 7's will be fine, small doses of maxicrop w/ iron will get your plants through it till the ph drops on it's own (unless your media is buffering the ph?)

[alex281]

be very careful messing with the ph.. what is your ph at now?
big changes can stress the fish, which makes the fish more vulnerable to sickness/disease.

ph in the high 7's will be fine, small doses of maxicrop w/ iron will get your plants through it till the ph drops on it's own (unless your media is buffering the ph?)

ph out of the tap is around 8.4 my system finally cycled and now that i have a new tank i wont need to be messing with water levels or deal with lots of loss from random leaks.

i tested the gravel with some vinegar and saw maybe 5 bubbles after 20 minutes. so i guess its fine

i was hoping the system would bring it down itself, but i havent seen any changes in ph since i got the kit a long while back.

i think i might add just a tad of hcl and see what happens, it seems to be a good ph dropper from what ive read so far ive also read reports of the maxicrop +iron dropping ph, but ill have to be patient and see whats going to go on before i go and mess things up. :D

[keith_r]

let your water from the tap "offgas" for a couple hours with a bubbler, then test the ph...
you don't want to change the ph more than .2 or so in a single dose/24 hours..
my system sat in the high 7's for over 8 months before the ph dropped, it now has to be bufferred, and all my plants did fine, with light dosing of maxicrop with iron (a quart lasted me over a year)
but i do understand the need to experiment.. i just picked up a couple bags of daphnia during my lunch break, three 5 gallon glass fish tanks for the daphnia, with five 5 gallon green water buckets to feed them.. trying to order some scuds today too.. lol

[alex281]

let your water from the tap "offgas" for a couple hours with a bubbler, then test the ph...
you don't want to change the ph more than .2 or so in a single dose/24 hours..
my system sat in the high 7's for over 8 months before the ph dropped, it now has to be bufferred, and all my plants did fine, with light dosing of maxicrop with iron (a quart lasted me over a year)
but i do understand the need to experiment.. i just picked up a couple bags of daphnia during my lunch break, three 5 gallon glass fish tanks for the daphnia, with five 5 gallon green water buckets to feed them.. trying to order some scuds today too.. lol


Thank you for the advice! much appreciated :D

[Roger R.]

Has anyone used the powdered form of Maxicrop? Seems like it would last longer and you're not paying for the water.

[keith_r]

in a 100 gallon system i used maybe a capful every month or so..
for my 80 gallon system i've used 1/4 cup 2x in the past 6 months

[Apollo]

I just needed to keep track on this subject...to track this issue, not such how to do so without just joining in. Thanks for the ride.

[David - WI]

I just needed to keep track on this subject...to track this issue, not such how to do so without just joining in. Thanks for the ride.

Up at the top, under the title and "New Thread" button you can click "Subscribe" to be included on conversations that you were not part of.

[Aloha Don]

Does Maxicrop supply all the missing nutrients that plants need? How does it affect PH?
I was under the impression that the aquaponic system would basically take care of itself except for iron which is added.
What other nutrients should WE add that the system does not provide for?
Thank you

[Aloha Don]

has anyone placed banana peels in their system?
If so, do you put them with the egg shells under the flow of return water to the FT?

[urbanfarmer]

Does Maxicrop supply all the missing nutrients that plants need? How does it affect PH?
I was under the impression that the aquaponic system would basically take care of itself except for iron which is added.
What other nutrients should WE add that the system does not provide for?
Thank you
No.

The law of conservation of mass, or principle of mass conservation, states that for any system closed to all transfers of matter and energy (both of which have mass), the mass of the system must remain constant over time, as system mass cannot change quantity if it is not added or removed. Hence, the quantity of mass is "conserved" over time. The law implies that mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form, as for example when light or physical work is transformed into particles that contribute the same mass to the system as the light or work had contributed. The law implies (requires) that during any chemical reaction, nuclear reaction, or radioactive decay in an isolated system, the total mass of the reactants or starting materials must be equal to the mass of the products.

The concept of mass conservation is widely used in many fields such as chemistry, mechanics, and fluid dynamics. Historically, mass conservation was discovered in chemical reactions by Antoine Lavoisier in the late 18th century, and was of crucial importance in the progress from alchemy to the modern natural science of chemistry.

READ MORE ANCIENT WISDOM @: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

As a favor for me and my price for this knowledge that took my time to get to you, I strongly request you teach this to as many people as you can. I am only one man, but together we are two. Thank you

[urbanfarmer]

has anyone placed banana peels in their system?

Yes.



If so, do you put them with the egg shells under the flow of return water to the FT?
I'm not sure what difference you are hoping this makes, but this is not a reasonable way to get nutrients into your system. Try planting them next to the ROOTS of a BIGGER FRUITING PLANT in your garden. Also, try putting these biodegrading materials further from other plants. Pay attention to how the roots move towards the decaying matter over time. Notice how little critters get in there and eat away. Notice the swelling or puffing of gasses building up and notice the smells. Notice the cluster of bacteria oozing decomposed nutrients into your water column. Notice the bacteria, fungus, and other microflora and microfauna you cannot see with the naked despite your ability to detect them other ways.

HAVE FUN AND ENJOY :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Blizzard]

I think I should have paid more attention in science class now? Ok here is what I have read. A high PH can block most other things like magnesium and iron. And potassium. A high carbonate level will prevent your PH from going up and down to quick? So if you have a high PH now. Then you may not need to add anything? As the high PH could be blocking the potassium and iron from your plants?
Building a system is easy. Getting the plants to cooperate is the hard part.

[urbanfarmer]

I think I should have paid more attention in science class now? Ok here is what I have read. A high PH can block most other things like magnesium and iron. And potassium. A high carbonate level will prevent your PH from going up and down to quick? So if you have a high PH now. Then you may not need to add anything? As the high PH could be blocking the potassium and iron from your plants?
Building a system is easy. Getting the plants to cooperate is the hard part.
Hi Blizzard,

I frequent the forums a lot less than I'd like to or used to; so, please excuse the delay. :mrgreen:

First off, getting the plants to cooperate is part of building a system.


I think I should have paid more attention in science class now?
I see & say this daily. The amount of useful knowledge we were taught over 2 decades and the general attitude that it's all useless was "the jock's greatest propaganda", or something.



[Will] A high carbonate level [...] prevent your PH from going up and down too quick?
I have to go out on a limb and assume you mean CALCIUM carbonate. It can act as a buffer to some extent, but this is no way to manage an aquaponic system in the long-term. It's a great method to control certain issues in the short-term.


So if you have a high PH now. Then you may not need to add anything? As the high PH could be blocking the potassium and iron from your plants?
Maybe, but only for a while. Eventually, the system will consume your calcium carbonate from the water. Think about The Law of Conservation of Mass. If a plant root takes out matter (molecules of calcium carbonate) out of the water then it will need to be replaced if the molecules get too low in concentration for proper uptake by the plant roots... this is what happens with every nutrient. A high pH doesn't "block" the nutrient. It makes it rain out of the solution like hail on a cold day.

[urbanfarmer]

This is where your calcium carbonate could come from:

http://youtu.be/L-XujwMJATw?t=1m6s

:shock: :lol: :ugeek: :mrgreen:

[urbanfarmer]

If you watch the video through you will see these strange white rock crystals at the end. They made these. If your pH gets too high in your system these rocks magically appear in your water column and start to snow down onto the bottom. That's where your NUTRIENTS go when the pH of the solution is out of their range for the solubility of those chemical species.

I think... I posted an article or something on how to make these out of eggshells. I made some giant ones years ago and used the rock pieces to feed nutrients to my plants. You have to extract the calcium from the eggshells (although some people have thrown eggs into their system as this works, but very differently and it is less predictable given the rate of chemical reaction). It's fun, easy, and maybe a really cool science project to do with the kids (if there are kids that is).

I hope something here helped!!

:mrgreen: