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View Full Version : REALLY Bummed .......



jackalope
03-24-2009, 05:28 PM
After getting my setup all built and running, I'm almost ready to give up ...... the past couple of weeks, I've lost three or four fish, but today, I lost 5, one of which was my prize large Goldie .... about 4 1/2 inches long ...... he was the strongest of all, the "Bully of the Bayou", as Doug Kershaw would say ...... needless to say, I'm depressed ....not at the thought of losing valuable fish, but that I can't seem to keep them alive :? :?

I don't know if it's the water or not, I have no way to test it other than the master test kit and for chlorine. I've been putting water conditioner in it lately in case it's the metals from the copper and brass in the water lines, whenever I add 5 gallons of water, and I'm feeding them Goldfish Disks food from HBH, and Koi and Goldfish Floating Pellets from Kaytee. All of my readings for ph, ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and chlorine are good .... the ph is a little high 8.0, but it seems that whatever I do to lower the ph, it stays right at the 8.0 anyways. That's what the ph is when it comes out of the tap and sits over night, so I don't try adding lemon juice or anything else to bring it down ..... I'm under the impression that the ph is more for the plants than the fish ....... btw, the plants are doing fine.

Oh, and I did find something weird .... on one of the granite stones I keep in the bottom (to hold down the suction hose of the filter), there was a small dime-sized ball of slime or gel ..... clear and soft, but didn't break apart when I tried to smear it. I've taken out all of the granite, in case itwas some kind of fish disease that shouldn't be there. I don't know what Malachite Green will do to the groceries I've planted, so I can't treat the fish with that unless I quit pumping water to the plants ...... catch 22, I'd say ........

Sorry about the rant, I just needed to vent!

wolfracer
03-24-2009, 06:49 PM
Sorry to hear about your run of bad luck. I believe that I read on one of the aussie sites that granit or limestone will buffer the ph and keep it high. Hang in there. I bet your going to figure it out.

jackalope
03-24-2009, 07:06 PM
Sorry to hear about your run of bad luck. I believe that I read on one of the aussie sites that granit or limestone will buffer the ph and keep it high. Hang in there. I bet your going to figure it out.

Limestone, I could understand, but Granite? Please don't let it be Granite, because probably half of the pea gravel in my grow-beds is some sort of Granite, I'd think :(

badflash
03-24-2009, 07:40 PM
I'm betting you just don't have a good cycle on your system. With weather changing like it is the metabolic processes change quickly and if there isn't enough good bacteria, you end up with floaters. I've found that black mollies are the toughest of them all when it comes to cycling. I also use pond snails.

jackalope
03-24-2009, 10:20 PM
I dunno, somethin's gone haywire ......... now my autosiphon on the bottles has gone TU .... it isn't breaking like it should, it's just overflowing instead of draining the system, the tubing from the pump is all gunked up with crud, and has gone flat, even though there should be pressure on it.

I shut the pump down, and let the bottle system drain dry, filled it back up, but the autosiphon still doesn't drain out, it just overflows ..... I guess I'll have to cut it apart and see what's wrong .... and just as I was going to put pics up ........ Oh, well, at least I have a few fish left and have some plants growing ........ maybe I can water them by hand ......... and BTW, I know it ain't roots clogging the system, the plants haven't got that big yet ........ bummer........

badflash
03-25-2009, 04:57 AM
You using a loop or a real auto siphon? Gooped up could sure be the issue, especially with a bad cycle. These things need constant attention, so just plan on it. Pump & tubing cleaning all the time. If you have a true auto-siphon, low flow can be an issue cause by a gooped up system. If the flow gets low enough it dribbles over and never siphons.

wolfracer
03-25-2009, 05:40 AM
Sorry to hear about your run of bad luck. I believe that I read on one of the aussie sites that granit or limestone will buffer the ph and keep it high. Hang in there. I bet your going to figure it out.

Limestone, I could understand, but Granite? Please don't let it be Granite, because probably half of the pea gravel in my grow-beds is some sort of Granite, I'd think :(
It wasn't granite I read about, it was marble, I went back and re read that post sorry to misspeak on that.

badflash
03-25-2009, 07:51 AM
Marble and limestone won't directly cause clogging, but can make your pH shoot up into the high 8's. No good for most fish. Some plants love it though. I might try in in a worm based bioponic fishless system.

JeffW
03-25-2009, 10:14 AM
I have lost plants and fish but and each time I do I learn why

This is why I am working on the worm juice feeding system as worms are a lot easier to
deal with in my view but I need to prove it to myself first.

jackalope
03-25-2009, 11:08 PM
I got the siphon working again, bought a new hose, I guess I'll have to get me a 6' bottle-brush, this could get expensive. I might have some 1" black poly that I could cut a chunk off of, and put it around the clear tubing to keep it from getting algae, whaddya think? Funny, I was just thinking the same thing as you guys, if my fish die, I'll have to try out worms ... :lol: I was even wondering about crawdads, but the way these three females get along, that wouldn't work either .......

I'd much rather use fish though, I want something I can eat ...... I lost 6 more today, there's one that isn't looking too good, that will probably kick the bucket tomorrow ...... he let me pick him up as long as i didn't take him out of the water ..... I looked at him closely, and it looks like he's got little hairs growing off his underside .... they disappear when you take him out of the water, but put him back in, and they come right back. I guess I'll have to join a Goldfish forum now ...... I'm getting on too many forums ...... haven't had time to check out the Aussie forums lately, been getting our mobile set up and cleaned up for a move in, hopefully by early summer :crosses fingers:.

My worm cocoons came in today, so I'm building my worm bins so I can get them started in a few weeks. The lady I bought them from, said it takes 30 - 45 days for them to hatch, and in 60 to 90 days they will be breeding more ...... I bought 600 cocoons, and each cocoon is supposed to give you from 1 to 3 worms ...... I thought I'd try it out this way instead of buying a bunch of already-hatched worms, just for the fun of it ..... plus, it was about 50% cheaper than anyone else on ebay ;)

The wife was not happy when I came home with three crawdads, and even less happy when I told her I bought some worms ....... wait till I tell her about the BSFL this summer ...... after I get some Marmorkrebs from Jack :lol: :roll: . I think I've got enough lumber left over to build a large doghouse, because I think I'm going to need it ;)

BTW Jeff and Jack, I hope you guys are ready for another good winter storm, I think we're going to be sending you one right soon, we're freezing and snowing out today and tonight ........ put away those bermuda shorts and get out the mukluks for another one :twisted:

mpugh5@aol.com
03-26-2009, 07:45 AM
jackalope what a difference a day makes, good to see your pushing ahead.i'm catching it between disability,which is like playing a ball game with a half inflated ball, and just getting order here around the homestead. i just do ,or try to do a little something every day. when it comes to the aquaponics you just can't get away from the old saying,"that's why they call it fishing." i like you are going to keep on pushing. about the worm cocoons,where did you find those on epay? i'm planning on setting up some half 55 gallon plastic drums like in one of the many video's posted on here. i failed miserably in my last attempt.got tired of the nats flying around the house so i moved them to the barn where they promptly all froze. 1 for experience. i just learned that the 176-6" blocks i hauled in are all corner blocks, that won't stop me from using them, per -free, but i am considering a suggestion from my heavy equipment operater buddy to dig down below the frost line ,put stone down and tamp it with the wacker plate and lay the block right on the ground. he explained to me that all these stone homes we have in pa. have two things different from modern construction. no foundation and not in the same sense as today no load bearing walls.i will do a little research and if this is true, then that will be a major hurdle for me ,due to concrete at a guess is probably over $90.00 a yard or better.i can get a big truck of stone for a $100.00 or so.
woke up this morning with my kidney aching and wonder what's this's all about? well figured i'd rant with you and hopefully make ya feel a little better :roll: :roll: :roll:
thanks michael

badflash
03-26-2009, 08:55 AM
Kidney ache- drink more water! You get busy and stop drinking.

For worms, a mox of cocoons and worms is the best. Keep the bed pretty moist to get those cocoons to hatch out. They stay dormant otherwise.

If you get gnats, you are probably over-feeding. Also be sure to put some cardboard directly on the bed.

JeffW
03-26-2009, 08:11 PM
Went out to sheep farm and we got what we were looking for. Then as it was getting
better we crossed over into the horses pen and into the wet slop and BOOM there
were millions of reds (Eisenia foetida) and man they were wild!

Check this out cocoons can stay dormant 30-40 years if conditions are not right for
hatching now that is amazing :o
[attachment=1:25j1kzfw]cacoons in dirt.jpg[/attachment:25j1kzfw]
[attachment=2:25j1kzfw]cacoon 2.jpg[/attachment:25j1kzfw]t]
[attachment=0:25j1kzfw]babies.jpg[/attachment:25j1kzfw]

jackalope
03-27-2009, 12:04 AM
about the worm cocoons,where did you find those on epay?
She only puts them up when she has some to sell, I bought the last two ..... I'll PM you her ebay ID if you want to send her an ebay-o-gram. The good thing about cocoons is that the worms are born to eat whatever you start them on, some growers use peat moss, some newspaper, some cardboard, etc., so it usually takes the worm a week or two to adjust to whatever you plan to use if the seller didn't tell you what he was feeding ...... with cocoons, you don't have to re-train them for what to eat :D :D


i'm planning on setting up some half 55 gallon plastic drums like in one of the many video's posted on here. i failed miserably in my last attempt.got tired of the nats flying around the house so i moved them to the barn where they promptly all froze. 1 for experience.

I'm using Roughnecks (Roughnecks for the Redneck ;) ) Here's a great Video Clik ;) (http://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-bin-deluxe/worm-bin-deluxe.html) on a great redworm site that has tons of info. This video will show you step-by-step how to build a deluxe worm-bin using Roughnecks, and how to start the bin off for your worms.


i just learned that the 176-6" blocks i hauled in are all corner blocks, that won't stop me from using them, per -free, but i am considering a suggestion from my heavy equipment operater buddy to dig down below the frost line ,put stone down and tamp it with the wacker plate and lay the block right on the ground. he explained to me that all these stone homes we have in pa. have two things different from modern construction. no foundation and not in the same sense as today no load bearing walls.i will do a little research and if this is true, then that will be a major hurdle for me ,due to concrete at a guess is probably over $90.00 a yard or better.i can get a big truck of stone for a $100.00 or so.

Frank Lloyd Wright (famous architect) proved that you could dig a ditch 6 feet deep, fill it with 2" or so gravel, and build a foundation right on top of that, and have no heaving, etc. the gravel never allowed water to build up like soil does, so there was no freezing and heaving to worry about .... and that was probably 50 or 60 years ago ...... look him up and see if you can find out anything about that foundation, then if you get any flack, you've got a famous architect to back up your claims ;)

BTW, I lost two more fish today :(. At this rate, I'll be down to none in no time at all.

badflash
03-27-2009, 06:08 AM
Jeff- Those are worm cocoons for sure.

JeffW
03-27-2009, 06:27 AM
Cool we were not sure, we found them just under the weeds and top surface.

You could take a stick and poke in the roots (very shallow) and the worms were sticking
with their butts hanging out, so there along with castings were tiny balls. Not one was
found more than 1 inch below soil and even then it was more like a soft weedy root area
that these were in.

Now I am incubating them :) I feel like a chicken farmer

mpugh5@aol.com
03-27-2009, 07:12 AM
good morning, jackalope that was an informative video and i will be using the suggestions in it. we have a guy over in central pa. that sells the worms so i can get plenty over there. i plan to raise both red wigglers and night crawlers for fishing.
frank lloyd wright is from over around pittsburgh if i remember right, and built a lotta houses over that way, i am somewhat familiar with him but wasn't aware of the foundation fact.
i would appreciate the ladies epay id so that i could send her off an email to get on her list.i'd like to have a mix of worms and cocoons. i wish i could tell you why your loosing your fish but i'm still in the sponge stage of all of this. from what i'm seeing, in lurking on a few sights, is it possible that your making your water too clean? from what i am hearing there is a happy medium that the fish will excel in ,two steps to the right and it can be a disaster. i guess i would keep on talking and tweeking away at it.

jackalope
03-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Well, I tweaked too far ....... I wanted to get rid of the fish problem, Ick, and/or flukes, so I treated the fish tank with salt, just like they said on one of those Aussie forums. that has killed just about everything I had growing, squash, cukes, beans, lettuce, tomatoes .... the only thing that looks like it might survive is the spinach, and I don't like spinach. I'm just about fed up with this aquaponics stuff .... I've failed again ..........

badflash
03-29-2009, 03:18 PM
No, you've learned a valuable lesson. What is good for one thing is bad for another. Time to get back on the horse & ride.

Most plants do poorly with salt. It is usually better to get rid of the livestock, that try to deal with disease. I've never seen a case where treatment did any good. Fish get sick when their defences are down, just like us. Until the cycle issue is taken care of, nothing will help.

What I would suggest is that you get your temperatures up a bit and re-start your system with something really tough, like gambusia or black mollies. Black Mollies are especially tough and are commonly used to get a cycle going. Gambusia are also known as mosquito fish and are a big guppy. Gambusia also have a good market for pond folk as they do a great job in controlling mosquitoes. They can over-winter as well.

Mollies and gambusia need plant cover, like najas to have babies survive. Parents eat their young.

JeffW
03-29-2009, 04:45 PM
And President Lincoln tried how many times to pass his bar exams?
hang in there you can do this ;)

mpugh5@aol.com
03-29-2009, 06:15 PM
wow we all are learning together,me thinks that what i'm learning from this situation is to have a few aquariums set up to use as a sick bay. sorry to hear about the latest turn of events.keep on pushing, sounds like it can only get better.

wolfracer
04-05-2009, 07:51 PM
Hey Jackalope,

Haven't heard from you in a few days, How are your fish doing? I hope everything is on the mend.

JeffW
04-06-2009, 04:14 AM
Yea i was thinking same thing where is our jackalope :roll: