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brent
01-24-2011, 06:58 PM
When algae grows in the fish tank, would the algae killers for fish be harfull to the plants in the grow beds?

urbanfarmer
01-24-2011, 08:36 PM
That's coincidental. I was just staring at the kids' turtle tank because it was SO GREEN. They have UV clarifiers for cheap on eBay. Try this: http://cgi.ebay.com/36-W-UV-Sterilizer-Clarifier-w-36-watt-Light-Bulb-New-/110633081416?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c23eda48

The clarifier needs power to run, but it will kill the algae and make it clump up. I would put it inline with the water going to your grow bed. The dead stuff will settle and provide nutrients to your plants. The worms will probably eat it too, which is great.


When algae grows in the fish tank, would the algae killers for fish be harfull to the plants in the grow beds?
YES! DON'T DO IT.

Try to keep as much sun out of the water as possible, and you shouldn't have a problem with algae.

JCO
01-25-2011, 06:14 AM
I don't know if this is an isolated incidence or not, but the link below gives one mans experience with the Odyssea 36w UV. There is a difference between cheap and inexpensive. One denotes quality while the other denotes price. Figuring out which one fits a product isn't always the easiest thing to do. Do some more research before you give China (they manufacture Odyssea products) your hard earned money. It's a sad thing but more and more, inferior products and China have become to mean the same thing. :mrgreen:

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f218/uv-sterilizer-dont-be-cheap-like-me-113865.html

keith_r
01-25-2011, 06:48 AM
you don't want to use any algae killers for sure..

a little algae is not going to hurt anything, you just want to avoid a "bloom" (pea soup looking), but even if that happens, just add mucho air and cover, it'll be fine

swamp creek farms
01-25-2011, 08:18 AM
Why not just add some algae eating fish? Mine are doing work, keep it nice and clear.

urbanfarmer
01-25-2011, 10:02 AM
I don't know if this is an isolated incidence or not, but the link below gives one mans experience with the Odyssea 36w UV. There is a difference between cheap and inexpensive. One denotes quality while the other denotes price. Figuring out which one fits a product isn't always the easiest thing to do. Do some more research before you give China (they manufacture Odyssea products) your hard earned money. It's a sad thing but more and more, inferior products and China have become to mean the same thing. :mrgreen:

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f218/uv-sterilizer-dont-be-cheap-like-me-113865.html
Aside from the grammatical and spelling errors and that users obvious lack of a 5th grade education, that is a strong testimonial. I didn't realize that product was not UL listed, I just grabbed a quick search on eBay to offer an example. The price tag is attractive, but China makes some cheap junk and they do not care if the product ends up hurting someone. Trust me, that really is their philosophy IN MOST CASES.

Anyway, I digress. From a financial standpoint I would probably still go with the cheap stuff. For example, the 9 Watt UV clarifier on eBay is $20 whereas on Amazon it's almost $140. So, I could buy 7x of the cheap ones for the same price. Personally, that's a good replacement for a "Warranty" because if it lasts 10 months then that's 70 months (or almost 6 years). Lastly, this isn't a vital piece of equipment; so, if it fails it's not like your fish are all going to die in a few hours. It can be replaced in a non-emergency manner, which really leaves room for cost saving for the hobbyist or even small business! :mrgreen:

Amazon "UL listed with a 3 year limited warranty." $134.99
http://www.amazon.com/Tetra-GreenFree-Clarifier-Watts-Gallons/dp/B0002563JK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1295974385&sr=8-2

eBay "Returns: 14 day exchange" $19.95
http://cgi.ebay.com/UV-9-watt-Clarifier-Sterilizer-Algae-Green-w-Bulb-New-/290512368292?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a3e2f2a4

But, as mentioned already, it's even cheaper to not have an algae problem or "pea soup" problem! :lol:

JCO
01-25-2011, 11:40 AM
A 9W UV won't handle much volume of water to be helpful except in a very small aquarium and it only takes one of these to burn the house down, but you would still have the other nine left, right....OH I forgot the house burned down....they probably went up in smoke with the house, but I'm sure they are covered on you home owner's insurance, that is until the insurance company finds out the fire was caused by use of a non-UL listed product. They might still pay, but all your other sh*t is still gone :mrgreen:

urbanfarmer
01-25-2011, 12:27 PM
A 9W UV won't handle much volume of water to be helpful except in a very small aquarium and it only takes one of these to burn the house down, but you would still have the other nine left, right....OH I forgot the house burned down....they probably went up in smoke with the house, but I'm sure they are covered on you home owner's insurance, that is until the insurance company finds out the fire was caused by use of a non-UL listed product. They might still pay, but all your other sh*t is still gone :mrgreen:
Typically things that short turn off at the circuit breaker. I haven't really seen water catch on fire, but I guess it's possible! Also, I think his system is outside... :mrgreen: Either way, I would hope it's on a GFCI outlet since we're dealing with water. That's a good point though, if the product shorts it can possibly be enough to electrocute the fish dead, but very unlikely.

I think he said his system has to be portable and I doubt he will have algae problems indoors; anyway, I assume it's small, but the 9 Watt was for example purposes either way. eBay has ALL sizes UV clarifiers! :lol: There's nothing wrong with getting UL listed if the price is right.

Not everyone that had one of those faulty space heaters that were sure to start fires had their house burned down. Sure some were just plain lucky, but I'm sure some people anticipated such problems and used the device accordingly. I'm not saying the UV clarifier is in any way faulty, or if it is, as bad as a faulty space heater, but these devices are just tools. Anyone can use a tool better or worse than someone else. The guy with a $1000 nail gun might nail himself if he's being negligent, but the guy with a $20 nail gun from HB (China store) might keep his fingers and toes intact... BUT, the guy with the $1000 nail gun might get to keep nailing his hands and feet longer than the guy with the $20 nail gun. (by the way, did you know that HB nail guns come with really long warranties, that's unexpected but promising :D )

All kidding aside, you should always err on the side of caution, and safety can be a real issue. If you feel less than comfortable with a product for any reason and you have the means to pay for a product that makes you feel safer, then by all means go for it. I would never trade safety for dollars (even if it's just perceived or emotional and not reality). If I can figure out a simple electrical device and all of the implications of its safety, then I don't mind taking the financially wiser choice!

rfeiller
01-25-2011, 02:04 PM
Instead of buying blind, there are tables for the Calculation for the rate of water flow vs contact time to determine size of uv needed. Many UV systems are over rated. UV is absorbed by all of the suspended particulates in the water. If your water is quite turbid this has to be factored.
be safe life's too short. :)

keith_r
01-25-2011, 04:41 PM
as far as water catching on fire.. i'm from northeast ohio and remember well the cuyahoga burning..

when i was a kid we fished the grand, i remember the "foam" freaking me out, (ok, i'll date myself,,, in the late 60's and early 70's) and my dad explaining that it was from phospherous, (before it was "banned") from detergents, and remember asking my mom to change to a different detergent..


so that was totally off topic, so back to the original path

if you do get a bloom, it will die out if you take away the light, and your fish will live if you provide additional aeration... and when it dies, it produces an inhibitant that will keep algae down

Oliver
01-25-2011, 10:08 PM
I'm I missing something here (again)? Are we talking about an aquaponics system or an aquarium?

If it is an aquaponics system then you for sure don't want to use a UV light in your water flow path, for it will kill your bacteria. I imagine the same thing would happen to an aquarium as well.

Not good!

Oliver

rfeiller
01-25-2011, 11:48 PM
the likelyhood of someone installing a uv system strong enough to do that kind of eradication is pretty slim because of the cost of the equipment. the bulbs are also short lived.

aquaponics water is so full of particulates, slim chance of bacteria or parasites being destroyed as the uv rays would be absorbed by the large particles first. if the water was filtered down to less than 20 microns prior to the uv maybe.

even in full sun a pond can be balanced to the point where very little algae will thrive. i guess it depends on the level of nitrates you need to fuel the system, whither you can allow some of it to be utilized by the algae. then again fish graze on algae and the rotifers that thrive in it.

diatom algae is the pea soup, great for fry, but not so good for the crops.

Oliver
01-26-2011, 10:27 AM
While I agree with your assessment about the particles blocking a good deal of the UV, I must say that the whole purpose of a UV sterilizer is to kill bacteria and therefore will be strong enough to do just that.

Remember, aquaponics (if designed properly) is a multi-pass system and at least some of the bacteria will be killed with each pass. The autotrophic bacteria reside mainly in the grow bed/bio-filter area but the heterotrophic bacteria responsible for the mineralization of the solid fish waste remain suspended in the water.

In any case, the purchase of a UV filter for your aquaponics system is a waste of money and installing and using it will be a detriment to your system.

As for the algae, because I raise Tilapia, they tend to eat the algae in the tank unless I feed them enough to prevent them from being hungry enough to go for it. The fingerlings do a better job of keeping the tank clean than do the larger ones.

Oliver

urbanfarmer
01-26-2011, 10:04 PM
While I agree with your assessment about the particles blocking a good deal of the UV, I must say that the whole purpose of a UV sterilizer is to kill bacteria and therefore will be strong enough to do just that.

Remember, aquaponics (if designed properly) is a multi-pass system and at least some of the bacteria will be killed with each pass. The autotrophic bacteria reside mainly in the grow bed/bio-filter area but the heterotrophic bacteria responsible for the mineralization of the solid fish waste remain suspended in the water.

In any case, the purchase of a UV filter for your aquaponics system is a waste of money and installing and using it will be a detriment to your system.

As for the algae, because I raise Tilapia, they tend to eat the algae in the tank unless I feed them enough to prevent them from being hungry enough to go for it. The fingerlings do a better job of keeping the tank clean than do the larger ones.

Oliver
Wow! Thank you for that.

reverse
04-06-2011, 10:06 PM
What is the effect of green water in a AP system especially in plants? Is this good or bad?

keith_r
04-07-2011, 05:23 AM
i'm not sure what you mean by the effect, most systems go through a bloom if exposed to direct sunlight, quite a few go through the bloom even covered,, just make sure you add air if/when your system goes through this phase. when the algae dies off, it releases a chemical that will inhibit another bloom

Oliver
04-07-2011, 01:09 PM
What is the effect of green water in a AP system especially in plants? Is this good or bad?

I have a friend who operates a green water Tilapia system. At one time he had about 1000 fish in the tank. I don't recall the tank size. Apparently, the algae absorbed the nitrogen in the system and the Tilapia feed on the algae. He wasn't growing any other plants as I recall. I also believe he wasn't feeding the fish much else. Maybe I'll contact him and get the particulars. He lives near Palm Springs, CA., lower desert and all.

So, to answer your question about the green water effect on the plants, I would say that it will remove some or most of the nitrogen from the system and thereby have less for the plants. This is pure speculation on my part, however.

Oliver

reverse
04-07-2011, 07:14 PM
Thanks for the replies :) that is also what I am thinking, algae bloom will compete with plants(in GB) in terms of nutrients given out by the fish.. I could be wrong though..

But for the fish side of the AP system, I think it is beneficial specialy for fish fries because its food for them..

Fritz

urbanfarmer
05-01-2011, 01:09 PM
I have tried growing with green water and having plants. The plants don't grow as vigorously, but they grow. I have only had a problem with iron and nitrogen deficiency. The one time I had a nitrogen problem I just upped the feed a little and threw some urea in the system. I haven't had a problem since (probably because the fish got bigger and the roots of the plants are more established). The iron has been a back and forth battle, but the plants continue to grow. It's a mild deficiency and I am not too worried about it.

Algae that dies and clumps up typically will stick around the roots and other areas in the grow bed. The worms eat it and poop it out and the plants absorb it decomposed from bacteria as well. All I can say is it can work, but a lot more data and research is needed to say why or even how to do it right.

I have heard of farms that use green algae water to fertigate their crops. It acts as a nutrient rich slow release fertilizer. I don't recall the ratio, but I want to say it was 400:1 or something like that.