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wolfracer
03-09-2009, 06:16 PM
Although most of you are way ahead of me, I thought I would start a thread to chronicle my progress. I will add to it as things get done.

Here is what I'm am planning - Build a CHIFT PIST system, That is a Constant hieght in fish tank , pump in the sump system, raise tilapia ( if I can purchase them from some one) and vegtables year round via a radiant heated greenhouse. I am planning on constant flow using loop siphons in the grow beds and river bed systems made of 6" PVC.

For radiant heat I am going to build a hot water storage system copied from Mother Earth news utilizing a pond liner and insulated box. I will pump this hot water thru the pad via the radiant heat tubing. Although I am a big believer in buying locally you should shop around for this Item as it is varies in price from one distributer to the next. I am planning on taking advantage of solar and wind power to reduce operating costs but will also use electric for a backup.

I purchased a 275 gallon IBC from a local barrel cleaning company to use as my fish tank. I plan on enclosing and insulating it with a styrofoam/plywood box hopefully reducing any drastic temperature fluctations. After all this is Kansas and the weather changes to all extremes.

I have already purchased a 10x12 Harbor freight greenhouse and have installed the radiant heat tubing in the pad for it with 3-1/2" of concrete. I did this a couple of weekends ago. Mother Nature has been fighting me all the way! First working with 3/4" radiant heat tubing in the cold is a drag! Doesn't bend or manipulate very well. Since this is a greenhouse with water involved I also installed a small drain in the center.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/ghpadandft.jpg

Then the weekend we poured we recieved an unforecasted cold snap right after we poured. Fortunately the only damage to my pour might be a little scaling on the top layer. I can live with that, after all the concrete is there for thermal mass. Notice the light dusting of snow on the pad after we uncovered it.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics003.jpg

Well I was hoping to get to constructing the greenhouse last weekend but that didn't pan out because of high winds(part of life in Kansas), so I decided to start building my growbeds.
These are made up of 30 gallon sterlite containers my wife found on sale a few weeks ago. they were a littlle tall, so I broke out the die grinder and cut them down to 12" deep on the inside.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics006.jpg

Since I am planning to use a loop siphon system I constructed a internal drain pipe with 3/16" holes drilled in it for the water to drain thru. I made these removable, in case I need to make a design change (add more or bigger holes) and to aid in cleaning.
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics009.jpg
The next step in this process was to drill a 1 3/8" hole in the grow bed to allow the drain pipe to connect to the loop siphon . I connected it with a home made bulkhead fittng using 1" pvc to 1" pipe male and female adapters and hand cut rubber grommetsand 90 degree elbow. These seem to be fairly sturdy, but I have yet to test them.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics011.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics015.jpg

I worked fairly steady at these and was able to complete 9 growbed assemblies this weekend. This will give me approximately 170 gallons of growbed capacity. I may add more But I really need to get the greenhouse up first to see what I am dealing with when it comes to room to work.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics014.jpg

I hope you enjoy this thread and please don't hesitate to offer advise! We all could use a little help from our friends.

jackalope
03-09-2009, 09:29 PM
Sounds like you're going to have a heckuva system Wolfracer. Congrats .... keep us updated!
That kinda makes mine look small ;). That's OK though, I'll get there, little by little :D

JeffW
03-10-2009, 09:24 AM
Looks great!...this thread will be neat to watch as you move forward so I shall subscribe to it.
Interested in your follow up on the heating with the tubing too.

mommyhen42
03-10-2009, 08:35 PM
I really hate to sound stupid here but what is a loop siphon???

I am trying to figure out the need for the pvc to go all the way thru the growbed... Does it go through to both sides or only one?? sorry just trying to visualize something I have never seen before...

I am a great one for looking at something and then going home and doing it myself, but I am totally lost here.

It took me a while but I finally understand how the auto-siphon works and can get them to work now no matter how tall my stand pipe is but I just cant picture a loop siphon.

Would have killed me to cut up those totes, but if what you are doing looks great I will copy your design and give it a try.

Thanks
Sheryl

wolfracer
03-11-2009, 05:02 PM
I really hate to sound stupid here but what is a loop siphon???

A loop siphon is an Auto Siphon, it works on the same principle as a bell siphon that is that once the siphon action starts, it will continue until the siphon action is broken by introducing air into the siphon. A loop siphon is a piece of hose that is looped with the top of the loop being where you want your high water level to be. Once the water level rises to that point and flows into the downward part of the loop the siphoning action starts. this will continue to siphon until the water level drops to a point that the siphon sucks in air. they are the simplest form of Auto Siphon. The bell siphon's definitely work better, as far as removing the water faster.


I tested my growbed loop siphons last night so here's a picture of what they look like.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics002.jpg

Using a constant input of water from my sink sprayer with faucet halfway on I was able to fill the container in 16 minutes and drain it via the loop siphon in 8 minutes . This will work well in the system as I have pictured it. No need for timers using a constant flood and loop siphon system.

Here's a picture of my cat Boots supervising the test.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics001.jpg

I am planning on bracing the growbeds up when I get them in the greenhouse because the bulging sides had me a little worried.

I hope I helped with my explaination.

JeffW
03-11-2009, 06:15 PM
My little setup with those half loop siphons work fine with small pea gravel in the cups,
and it drains the entire system dry automatically when siphon mode kicks in. I am wondering
with your beds having a greater amount of media in them than what I have in those cups
will your grow beds drain the same way with out stopping and more than likely there
should be no reason they won't.

By the way I think flex hose method is great, we have not had any troubles using hose
siphon, we used that in all setups all summer 2008 in more than one system and they all
worked.

wolfracer
03-11-2009, 06:28 PM
I am hoping that they will work as predicted. I have seen this on the Aussie bords and they seem to work well for them.

JeffW
03-11-2009, 06:36 PM
Yep I learn allot from down under..they take this very serious and darn good at it too.

Oh by the way I am using rain water, I got 100 gallons last 2 days from roof.
Our city makes our water with chlorine and fluorosilicic acid in it so it is not good
for my guts much less the plants and fish :o

Yea they are worried about our health and our teeth so they use that acid which is
a toxin left over from mining a certain product. :roll:

mommyhen42
03-12-2009, 10:23 AM
Ok, so now this is starting to make some sense to me. Do you cover the drain holes with screening to keep the gravel from being sucked in??? Or do you use a much larger gravel. I have been using all purpose gravel which has varing sizes unlike pea gravel which seems to be pretty much the same size.
Home Depo is charging me $2.47 for each bag and it takes about 2 1/2 bags to fill a 7 gal growbed to a little over 3/4The pea gravel is a little more than $3 a bag for the same amount, which is why I have been going with the all purpose... either way I do have to wash the gravel because of the amount of mud in them, some are definatly worse than others, as I found out a couple of years ago when I dumped a bag into my new pond and turned it into a big mud puddle... The bag says that it is washed but it is not, I complained to the company and they sent out a rep who brought me 4 more bags to the 3 I had bought but all were just nasty with mud... This years group of bags is just as bad...
The washed pea gravel for landscaping that really is washed nicely is over $5 a bag so I am not going there.

wolfracer
03-12-2009, 02:50 PM
I am hoping to find gravel that is large enough not to plug the drain holes but still small enough to work correctly as a grow media. Thanks for the info on the gravel!

wolfracer
03-14-2009, 06:38 PM
Got busy today and accomplished a lot with getting the greenhouse up! My son was able to help, and we had very little wind, so we really got a lot done. My fingers are sore from all the spring clips, but overall this is coming along nicely. Hopefully I'll be able to finish up the greenhouse tommorrow.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse004.jpg

mommyhen42
03-14-2009, 06:45 PM
i'ts really comming along nicely!
I am jealous as yours is bigger than mine... LOL
What I found when I did mine was that the door construction was the hardest to figure out... I had to run over to Harbor Freight to look again at the little one that they had set up to figure it out...
Hopefully you will be smarter than I was and figure it out in no time.

Have fun
Sheryl

wolfracer
03-14-2009, 07:55 PM
I hope the Doors are easier than the windows! They seem to fit to tight I am still working on that . Hopefully tommorrow I can finish it up. Harbor frieght is like 60 miles away so I"ll just have to brain it out I guess. That's been the toughest part, there is no Hardware store in this small town (only 125 people) and the nearest store is 30 miles away. So I have to plan carefully and pick up the parts I need after work before the commute home.

JeffW
03-14-2009, 08:21 PM
cool very cool

mommyhen42
03-15-2009, 12:12 AM
I hope the Doors are easier than the windows! They seem to fit to tight I am still working on that . .
I had the same problem, never could get the windows the way I thought they should be... I plan on buying those solar window openers they have as soon as they see fit to put them on sale again...
The trick with the doors is that they don't go together like you think that they should.
The framing is as it seems but the screws do fit into the holes in the brace ends, it just didnt make any sense to me that they woud go the way the plans say... wish they had pictures, things got lost in translation if you know what I mean...
build the outer frame, then lay it face down on the ground. Lay those cross braces down with the smooth side down. If you take a close look you will see that the 2 holes on the frame corispond with the holes in the ends of those cross pieces. As odd as it may seem those holes are what the screws go into... I hope this makes sense. I had 4 people here trying to help me figure out that part... LOL it just didnt seem right according to the directions, I thought that those holes were for the screw heads to fit into or something, I dont remember anymore.

I hope this helps

badflash
03-15-2009, 08:03 AM
I am jealous as yours is bigger than mine... LOL
Sheryl

I love it! Greenhouse envy :lol:

wolfracer
03-15-2009, 03:07 PM
Mommyhen you are still so far ahead of me in this hobby, it is I who is jealous!

I finished the greenhouse today with a litlle help fom my friend Brett, and was able to move the the 300 gallon IBC that I intend to use as a fish tank into it. Man I am tired! But the since of accomplishment is worth it. I forgot how good it feels to see the results of good hard work! Now I can get down to the business of actually building the system. I can't believe how hard I've been bitten by this hobby. I guess that is because it contains a little bit of everything I like to do. Designing, Construction, gardening and a little science thrown in too.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse003.jpg

mommyhen42
03-15-2009, 08:49 PM
I want your tank... I am dealing with a pewney 60 or 70 gal fishtank in my greenhouse... works great calculation wise for this greenhouse the way I have it set up but as you know keeping the levels correct is harder with smaller tanks. I will be picking up 2 large (for my friends little pond) channel cats that will be going into the 60 gal tub that I have sitting on the side of the greenhouse. I have set up my flat tray riverbeds on a table next to that tub using the tub for the water supply. There are 2 small crappie in there... or at least when I could see in the water there were 2... water is green now and the water grasses have taken over so I don't know if they are still alive or not. The supplier admitted to having problems with their temp tolerance and origonally there were 6. But the tank obviously is devoid of nutrients now because the Romaine looked georgous for the first week, now it is yellowing... I am loathe to get gold fish here from petco as they look starved and few ever survive, seems something is really wrong with them as they dont eat and secumb pretty quickly. most never even make it home and petco is only 1 mile from my house!
I am hoping to get some decent feeders from the store my husband used to own while we are at my friends house.

Eventually I will drain my swimming pool for cleaning for use this summer. over the winter I have had a dozen bluegill, 2 koi, and several goldies living in there, I was watching the goldies spawn in there over the last 2 weeks. These guys will go into another smaller swimming pool that will eventually be in between 2 home made greenhouses or shade houses, not sure which I will do yet. Perhaps one of each.
I have to watch for the smaller pools to come into kmart and target... short of expensive stock tanks that is pretty much my only option... the local feed store wants $375 for a 200 gal rubbermaid and $197 for a 200 gal galvanized.

badflash
03-15-2009, 08:59 PM
I mail order the 300 gallon kiddie pools. They run under $20 each and last about 2 years. I put foam insulating board under them to make sure nothing sharp bothers them. They are 6' in diameter and just about perfect.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/badflash/snails/pool.jpg

This is one I had set up in my basement. The bubble wrap provides insulation.

JeffW
03-15-2009, 09:13 PM
I like bubble wrap that stuff is great.

Why only 2 years what happens to them?

mommyhen42
03-17-2009, 12:53 PM
Great idea but if it is larger than 4x4 it won't fit into my building... Outside the sides need to be higher... My German Shepherds LOVE water and have 2 pools like this that they play in all spring and summer long. I could do it if I bought some fencing material to go around it though...

So the bubble wrap floats on the surface?
I wonder if I could use Styrofoam??? Or do the fish try to eat the stuff?

JeffW
03-17-2009, 01:28 PM
Sheryl..you have Shepherds?
2 of them then?

And no fish won't eat the foam

badflash
03-17-2009, 05:00 PM
I like bubble wrap that stuff is great.

Why only 2 years what happens to them?

They start getting pin hole leaks. Not bad if you are outside, but no good in the basement. It also shorted out the waterbed heater.

If you use bubble wrap, be sure NOT to get the bios-degradable kind. The stuff slowly disolves in water.

badflash
03-17-2009, 05:03 PM
So the bubble wrap floats on the surface?
I wonder if I could use Styrofoam??? Or do the fish try to eat the stuff?

Yep, bubbles float :D

Tilapia will try to eat anything, so I'd be worried about styro. They never bothered the bubble wrap. Bubble wrap is a heck of a lot cheaper and it lets light through. Easy to cut too.

mommyhen42
03-17-2009, 08:32 PM
Sheryl..you have Shepherds?
2 of them then?

And no fish won't eat the foam

Actually, I have 4 Shepherds and a litter of 3 week old puppies.

I have an old male, a 2 yr old male that is currently working to finish his CD title and is starting in Schutzhund tonight.
A 5 yr old bitch that is sired by an international Champ Schutzhund 3
and a 3 month old Bitch that is also champion sired that I hope to get a Schutzhund title on once she matures.

I just have 2 of those swimming pools set up for the dogs to play in. My young male Lives to play with water!

wolfracer
03-21-2009, 08:31 AM
I am going to try and get this thread back on track.
Being Spring break I had 2 days off from the college (as employees we get 2 of the 5 days), so I spent that time back on my latest obsession. Thursday I constucted the supports for the growbeds out of cinder blocks, 2x12's, and 4x4's. I wanted to go a little higher with them to accommodate a larger sump but that would of limited the amount of fall from the fish tank for my feed lines. It turned out quite well and is very sturdy. This is just the right length to hold the 9 growbeds I built earlier.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse004-1.jpg

I had decided on pea gravel as my growbed media, and calculated that I needed 2.5 cu ft per growbed. Once I shopped around the cheapest I could find already packaged up was $3.28/.5 cu ft from Walmart. This would be around $135 for gravel. I just can't do that right now. I called a guy I grew up with, who owns a local gravel trucking company and he turned me on to a quarry about 30 miles away that might have what I was looking for. I finally was able to get a phone number for them and they had what I needed for $20 dollars a ton. Since I had read that limestone will buffer your PH (limestone is the predominate rock around here) I made sure that this was good hard river gravel in the pea pebble size.
This is where it gets interesting, When you go to a Rock Quarry with a half ton truck make sure you communicate with the loader to not overload your vehicle! They put one loader bucket in the back. I didn't think anything about wieght, until after I crossed the scale and stepped out to go in and pay. The truck was clear down on the frame stops and the tires were squished almost flat. The bill turned out to be $37 for 1.8 tons of pea gravel. I made it home (30 miles away), thankfully this is mostly rural and I was able to go about 45 mph without people running over me.

This is what 1.8 tons of pea gravel minus about 10 3 gallon buckets, looks like.
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse003-1.jpg

I spent the rest of Friday sifting and washing gravel. The pea gravel has some pretty small grit to it and I was really looking for something a 1/4" or larger. We had some sifters laying around, that we made for when the wife and I met my parents down at the diamond mine in arkansas. These worked fairly well for sifting out the smaller stuff. I will save it to use in cups, for the riverbed system I intend to build copied from Mommyhen's design.

Following Laurrie's recommendation, I used my cement mixer to wash the gravel. Even with the cement mixer this is still a huge amount of work. I still have another day of gravel washing in front of me I'm sure.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse012.jpg

I managed to completely fill one growbed and partially fill all nine before it was quitting time. (didn't want to miss the BSG series finale!).

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse006.jpg

I am getting closer but I still have some hurdles to cross, I need to get the sumps constucted and the feed lines and the fish tank lines. I also need to get my pump, air pump and air stones. Not to mention fish and plants. Wow I thought I was a little closer.

mpugh5@aol.com
03-22-2009, 09:20 AM
Tilapia will try to eat anything, so I'd be worried about styro. They never bothered the bubble wrap. Bubble wrap is a heck of a lot cheaper and it lets light through. Easy to cut too.

hey badflash i was at the local college,cheyney state univ. and they use the styrofoam boards for insulation and grow bed on there set up. the type of styrofoam i believe would be the issue. the boards are like expanded foam not the crumbly stuff that gets and goes everywhere. :arrow: :idea:

wolfracer your an inspiration that's some good looking effort you've put out there. it was about 27degrees out here yesterday morning and i liked to froze my fingers off loading 176 cinder blocks on a trailer while the sun rose.the tires on the trailer looked like your truck coming from the quarry,by the way thanks for another great idea. one more trip like that and i'll be ready to start the foundation for the greenhouse.

wolfracer
03-22-2009, 01:30 PM
Can't wait to see some pics of your greenhouse it sounds like it will be nice and roomy. I finished washing the gravel today so all the growbeds are nice and full . Will start on the plumbing after the Nasscar race is over about 100 laps to go. My friend Brett brought me a 2 speed exhaust fan, so I will have to get that mounted up sometime also.

badflash
03-22-2009, 03:17 PM
Careful doing work after watching Nasscar. The beer tends to screw up your judgement :lol:

wolfracer
03-22-2009, 04:39 PM
Especially when you brew your own!.

badflash
03-22-2009, 08:26 PM
Interestingly enough, if you brew your beer from grain, the tilapia will be more than happy to eat the spent grain and yeast. Hard to stand up after feeding, but worth the effort. ;)

wolfracer
03-24-2009, 07:04 PM
I emailed the Kansas Dept of Wildlife and Parks and got a response today. I asked if it would be legal to raise tilapia in a closed system. I know that some state don't allow them. this was thier response. "It is legal to raise tilapia - they are not on our prohibited list. You are correct in that it would be prohibited in releasing them into our waters." So I'm good to go as soon as I get the system up and going!

wolfracer
03-27-2009, 03:51 PM
It's been a busy week for me so I haven't progressed as far as I would like this week. I finished up filling the growbeds with gravel last sunday. My buddy Brett crashed his 4 wheeler and got life watched by helicopter to wichita That same day. Wierd feeling seeing that helicopter come over the greenhouse at treetop level, and then finding out it was for someone you know real well. Oh well, he is doing great and is back home with 2 broken shoulders and plates in the left side of his face.

I am reshifting my thinking after talking with one of the fish hatcheries in the county beside me , I think I am going to go with channel cats in my tank. they are cheapier , easier to get, and litlle more tolerant of newbie mistakes.

Spent monday putting the polycarbonate sheets back on my greenhouse after 25 to 40 mph winds all day. Went out tuesday and purchased grometted self-drilling screws and I guarantee they aren't coming off now!

I will get busy this weekend on the plumbing, The only thing slowing me down is that we are expecting 8-10"s of snow tonight. Right now we have freezing rain.

I know we all like pictures, so here's is the growbeds with what I estimate to be about 1.4 tons of sifted and washed pea gravel.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse002.jpg

badflash
03-27-2009, 05:22 PM
The great thing about pioneers is we learn quickly and adjust. You have to go with what works. Re-visit what doesn;t when we know more.

Keep it up! Looks great!

wolfracer
04-01-2009, 06:22 PM
A little more progress!

Got my growbed supply lines put together, but I am going to have to cut the last line off and put a coupler on it, so I can adjust the level of the rest of the lines. Not sure what happened there but you know stuff happens. been a rough week and with the power off I didn't get a lot done last weekend, but I'm back on the program now.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse006-1.jpg

Here is a closer look at the lines. I used 3/4" lines for each bed with 1-1/2" for the feeder line. The valves are 3/4". I hope this wil produce the effect I am looking for.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse007.jpg

I also managed to get the the hole cut in the IBC I am using for my fish tank but now I am going to have to fish a broken saw blade out of it. I was really pleased to see that the tank is quite a bit tougher than I Imagined!

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse008.jpg

I am hoping to get the tank siphon constructed tommorrow and then I can start working on the sumps .... Getting closer !!

JeffW
04-01-2009, 07:53 PM
hats off to you and doing it with care and such a nice neat job. It shows that your putting your all into this project.......and in my own words I say...very cool.!! :)

JCO
04-02-2009, 08:09 PM
Wolf, you made this statement eariler in one of your post but I think your statement is ill thought....
Mommyhen you are still so far ahead of me in this hobby, it is I who is jealous!

You used the word "HOBBY" when what you are actually working toward is a way of life. A hobby is something you do in your spare time...Aquaponics is something that you do all the time because it requires your constant attention to assure it works correctly and keeps working. You only get a break from it when LIFE actually gets in your way..! Time to wake up and smell the roses...in for a penny....in for a POUND..! Fight it as you may but the hook is set as it is with the rest of us and the only way out is to become worm dirt then someone wil make worm tea with your remains..! :o :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

JeffW
04-03-2009, 05:41 AM
:idea: Wolf..I am changing my will...I want to be compost then brewed in a bucket :lol:

wolfracer
04-04-2009, 04:40 PM
:idea: Wolf..I am changing my will...I want to be compost then brewed in a bucket :lol:

LOL !

wolfracer
04-04-2009, 08:09 PM
Today was a banner day!

My system is running! I 've got a few minor leaks to take care of but everything is working as planned. I finished most of the tank plumbing yesterday. I decided that I was going to get after it hard and heavy with the goal of finishing today.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse001.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse002-1.jpg

The biggest battle was joining the siphon sump to the pump sump. Using the plastic 1-1/2" bulkhead connectors, the hole saw I had was just a little too small and the barrels were a little thick, so getting the connectors on straight ended up being a battle. Here is a picture of the pump sump with the pump and over flow piping.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse005.jpg

This is the piping inside the tank showing the growbed feed siphon, the overflow outlet and the outlet from the pump.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse008-1.jpg

Once the tank was full and flowing into the growbeds it took a little adjusting of the feed valves and now everything is running sweetly (except for the one growbed I shutdown because it was leaking at the drain connector)! All the siphons are working as expected, Also the fish tank level remains the same level. I am stoked!

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse016.jpg

The way my luck runs I will go out tommorrow and find a big mess!

The question now is how do I proceed? How long should I let this cycle before adding Plants and fish and which should come first? Any help would be appreciated.

JCO
04-04-2009, 11:30 PM
Hey Wolf,

Go ahead and put your plants in, they'll do quite well for some time with just plain water being fed to them as is proven by raising plants in a jar with nothing but water.

If you have any old filter material that you can remove from a working fish tank, throw that into your over flow tank and that will help get the bacteria growing. Go to Pet Smart or wherever you can buy about 10 inexpensive gold fish and throw them in your fish tank, feed them sparingly at first and don't worry about the temperature and you're off and running.

Good luck :mrgreen:

JeffW
04-05-2009, 04:28 AM
badflash and JCO can help you with the cycling questions and how long you might have to wait for bacteria.

Sir you have a fine looking green house farm there, we salute you for the diligence. This is awesome and I curious to see how well each siphon works for you so I am watching this thread as you progress.

You might have a few kinks down the road and some leaks here and there but that's OK
we all learn from it.

GOOD JOB!...and also it must feel good to "plug it in" :)

badflash
04-05-2009, 05:09 AM
If you have a cycled aquarium, or access to someone with a healthy cycled aquarium, offer to clean out their filters for them. Swish out all the gook in the filter and dump it in your sump. Add fish within 24 hours. That is all there is to it.

mpugh5@aol.com
04-05-2009, 07:58 AM
WOW what a difference a day makes, just got back from a trip to southern virginia,logged on to a very pleasant surprise. wolf your system is inspiring and looking good. ;) 8-) ;)

wolfracer
04-05-2009, 10:11 AM
Thanks for all the encouragement and compliments! Building this has been fun, but now I have a minor problem. It is supposed to get down to 25 tonight and I don't have my heating system going, should I drain this down or leave it running? If I am going to drain it I need to be doing it soon.

JeffW
04-05-2009, 10:36 AM
how long will it be cold just over night?

I would drain it if it is not a problem or shut the doors and windows kick on a heater and toss a tarp over the top maybe? depends I guess on your flexible parts, tanks can expand a bit but
water in PVC does not

wolfracer
04-05-2009, 12:49 PM
Just over night. I think I will leave it running. No fish and no plants, and the green house appears to stay 10 degrees warmer than outside with no sun.

wolfracer
04-05-2009, 03:37 PM
Update on the expected cold snap .... I went ahead and put a 1500 watt oil filled electric heater in the green house, hopefully this will be enough. Just when you think you your ahead of the curve Mother Nature reminds you who is in charge!

JeffW
04-05-2009, 04:01 PM
Yea tell me about it :oops: I have been fixing up the rototiller and messing around preparing for the garden, I just got the snow plow back out of storage because we are told we are getting some freak weather pattern and maybe 1/2 foot snow tonight. Oh well it won't stay since 60's next week :? ..or so they say.

I think that was a good idea...10 degrees inside higher and a heater for the night will keep your setup safe. That is what I would have done myself like your doing now keeping water moving
and use heater for the night.

wolfracer
04-05-2009, 06:14 PM
I worked so hard to get this going I just hated the idea of shuting it down. Hopefully it will be enough. Outside temp is 36.4 but the wireless thermometer in the greenhouse says 50. The sensor is setting on the table with the growbeds, the display is right by my easy chair.

wolfracer
04-10-2009, 05:09 PM
Time for an update on the project...

Came home Tuesday night to a small disaster, one of the loops pinched itself off causing the growbed to overflow. Probably lost about twenty gallons of water. After spending some time online and more than a little time in the hardware store, I devised a solution that I think will service me well. I purchased 3 5' sticks of 3/8" white PEX tubing. I found that iI could bend this stuff in a fairly tight radius without it kinking and it woud slip air tight into my 1/2" hose. It also allows me to adjust the height of the water in the grow beds by pulling the PEX out or pushing it back in the 1/2" hose.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse001-1.jpg

It took a while to get them all done up this way because I would wait for the end of the siphon cycle and then cut the hose and make my modification. I also found that I had to add some length to the siphon hose at the sump end or the siphon wouldn't break the siphon action, it would just keep on dripping.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse002-2.jpg

While I was fixing these my wife was washing the dirt off of tomato's, cucumbers, peppers and red cabbage plants that we had purchased the evening before, to prep them for planting in the growbeds. We both participated in planting them. We also threw some onions in these growbeds, as we read that they do well in companion planting. These plants have been in the growbeds since Wednesday night and seem to be doing allright. I have also planted seeds for celery, spinach and leaf lettuce.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse007-1.jpg

I pick up the Channel Cat fingerlings tomorrow at 9 am, so I needed to get the air system set up for the fish . I am using 2 6" air stones that I purchased online from drsfostersmith.com, powered by a Tetra Whisper AP 300 air pump. Here are the URL's

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=8121 (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+8121&pcatid=8121)
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=3676 (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+3676&pcatid=3676)

I ran into a little trouble hooking these up as the air pump uses a standard aquarium air lines and the air stones required a 1/4" ID line. I managed to hook these up by using the 1/4" ID line to the airstones and place a short link of standard airline on the both of the pumps outlets then slid the 1/4" line over that, it seems to be working quite well. I also secured the air pump to the shelf using plastic wire ties, to prevent a disaster like the pump falling into the tank.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse010.jpg

Two of these air stones put out a lot of air! Here is a picture of the surface of the tank and the water looks like it is about to boil over! I believe this should provide a good amount of air to my cat fish.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse012-1.jpg

Tomorrow should be a great day, as I will have a fully functioning auqaponics system with 50 catfish fingerlings!

JeffW
04-10-2009, 06:39 PM
You do great job of documentation with pictures by the way.
It looks great too!

If I may offer some advice it would be this. I had a green house running last summer and it got very hot at times so I would keep tabs on your feed lines because they will become softer more flexible later as heat rises inside. Maybe put a shade over air pump if possible keep it out of sun light, keeps pump cooler and prolongs life span.

Always something to think about right?

Even the water temps change because the lines are exposed to ambient air temp in green house. The water inside the PVC lines as it travels along to the beds will heat up. I am not saying it will be a problem only suggest keep an eye on things ;) I know this because last summer my hydroponic system (1" thin wall PVC) was in the sun light and it heated up the water in the pvc tubes VIA radiant heat which caused heat to transfer into the water as it traveled to plant containers (beds). This caused the plants to NOT want to drink it anymore than I would want to drink hot water on 90F day. Anyway I was late figuring this out but now I know that heat and PVC are factors in a radiant
condition. However yours might not have any issues at all..I am only offering what happened to me last summer.

It sure looks cool though and your gonna have a great time :)

wolfracer
04-10-2009, 08:15 PM
Jeff,

You are completely on target with one of my big concerns! We are shopping for shade cloth and solar vent openers. I am planning on removing some of the side panels and replacing them wirh screens for the summer. I also have a 2 speed exhaust fan to mount in the back of the greenhouse.

Do you think I should insulate the growbeds feed line? Also shading the air pump is a very smart suggestion and I appreciate it, That is why we are on this forum right?

As far as my documenting everything with pictures I confess to me it's half bragging rights, and half because I can maybe help someone with thier own design better with pictures than I can describe it with words.

Again keep the suggestions coming! I am always open to improvement.

JeffW
04-11-2009, 04:22 AM
Your welcome...me too I open to suggestions good or bad I learn that way still do ;)

As for the tubes or feed lines I only know that the direct sun was what I was having trouble with, not as much ambient air but direct sun hitting the feeder tubes. I saw a fella in Florida that is a master at hydroponics and he uses shade cloth when needed and so what I did was string some decent wire side to side of green house and it was used like shower curtain only it was above everything and it was sideways or horizontal above my head. It can be anything really that you use it just has to handle heat without falling part.

I was surprised how hot it got inside, I was foolish for not having good vents set up in the first place. All my fault for getting in a hurry ya know? As for the shade I could see a drop of 15-20 degrees just by hold some shade cloth up over an area. However I needed to vent that heat that was bouncing off and it was like a attic with not enough vents and that is why in just 1 summer my $100 6 MIL plastic cracked as I went up to check on it later and just fell all to pieces :(

6 Mil construction grade plastic can not handle high temps, it dries out and cracks. Now my goal is in polycarbonate green house panels that is the way I will go next time. This is April and I have no green house cover...I am bummed. Then again I just spent $2,300 + on a 40 year metal roof for pole barn so at least I will have TONS of fresh rain water now and that is a biggy living in the city getting charged for every gallon you use plus 1 gallon for disposing of it not to mention the crap in it that kills microbes.
dang it I got off topic sorry this is your thread not mine :lol:

Keep on trucking looks good bro!

wolfracer
04-22-2009, 02:14 PM
Latest addition and an update.


I believe I figured out what killed all my fish. The rural water district here uses chloramine instead of chlorine (which is what I thought they used) and stupid me didn't account for it. I never stated that I knew anything about fish by the way. So I ended up hauling water from the Fire Dept well tank. I am still measuring ammonia in this water, but I am assuming it has to do with the well being in a pasture, that has had cattle on it for over hundred years. Well as soon as I get everything cycled I will try again on the catfish. After a few test goldies that is.

Well I got busy and built my riverbed system! I was trying to go easy with the pvc glue so I had a few leaks which I plugged using silicon caulk. I used 3" pvc with 3/4" piping between each tube. I used a 2.5" hole saw for the holes and dollar store plastic cups with holes drilled in them for the plants. Turned out allright but I can think of a few mods for my next attempt.


http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse001-2.jpg

I have spices planted in these but I am a little unsure that they will sprout. Oh well this didn't get the the name of "The Great Experiment" for nothing!

Let me know what you think!

badflash
04-22-2009, 04:57 PM
Looks good to me.

Get some barrels to collect rain water. Town water is pretty bad stuff. I use a Kold-SterileII filter. Pricey up front, but worth it if you can afford it. 3 GPM + and it takes out all the nasties without hurting the hardness.

I sometimes use Amquel+ as a water conditioner. It inerts ammonia and chloramine.

JeffW
04-22-2009, 07:02 PM
Very cool...I like how you mounted the PVC, I see people use the metal strapping but never seen anyone use the plumbers hooks...very nice indeed 8-) As for water well you know I am a rain water fan man, matter a fact a huge flat bed semi pulled up to side of the house today and delivered my new metal roof (yay!!) for pole barn that is. So water rain is going to be collected like never before and heck of allot cleaner than the shingles I am sure.

Keep up the good spirit..you are making some serious headway in this it is looking great.

badflash
04-22-2009, 07:58 PM
Metal roof = metal ions. No big deal for fish, but forget crays. Metal ions are death to them.

JeffW
04-23-2009, 06:56 AM
not to worry this is coated with 40 year silicon polyester paint--no metal contact with water. Used for garden\compost tea jobs

mpugh5@aol.com
04-24-2009, 01:25 PM
hey fella's i just want to say your all looking good and plenty of great idea's floating around here. ;)

wolfracer
04-28-2009, 08:47 AM
I have a question about my fish tank. Am I hurting the devolpment of bacteria by not covering this tank(exposure to the sunlight )? My eventual plan is to insulate and cover this before winter but I was wondering , do I need to move this up a the priority list?

jackalope
04-28-2009, 06:01 PM
This would be my thoughts on that ....... Catfish eat algae, don't they? Well, if sunlight can get to the water, guess what grows .... Algae ;) So, you're providing food for them which cuts down on your food bill! If they don't eat Algae, then when you get some tilapia, they'll take care of your algae problem ..... BTW, I read today that tilapia and Channel Cats. get along beautifully, as long as they are close to the same size ;).
As far as your Chloramine problem, if you get some Jungle Start Right at an LFS or Walmart in the aquarium dept., it removes both Chlorine and Chloramine ;)
Just my 2 centavos

JCO
04-28-2009, 06:24 PM
Hey Jackalope...I don't know if anyone else has mentioned it or not, but I think your avatar is smashing :mrgreen:

badflash
04-28-2009, 06:55 PM
Nitrifying bacteria need no light to thrive. Most of the commercial systems I've checked out use covered tanks. Light is more an issue with the fish than the bacteria. Tilapia need light to stay healthy.

wolfracer
04-29-2009, 07:15 AM
Thanks for the replies everyone.

jackalope
04-30-2009, 09:18 AM
Hey Jackalope...I don't know if anyone else has mentioned it or not, but I think your avatar is smashing :mrgreen:
Thanks, Badflash sized it for me (Thanks Jack) because it was too large ..... it was the best one I could find on Google images that I liked ;)

Wolfracer, I assumed that you were talking about the Fish Tank, as Badflash says, The bacteria don't care about the light .... i.e. all of my growbeds have 14 hours of light from the fluorescents that I have on a timer ..... I have Northern exposure, so no sunlight, I use GE 'sunlight' bulbs and things are growing. My response was directed at your planting of catfish, which, I believe, are algae eaters ...... that would be a good additive to their diet ;) Tilapia are also good algae eaters from what I've read, especially hair algae and other pond algaes.

badflash
04-30-2009, 12:33 PM
Catfish do not need light. They are omnivores, but prefer regular food. If it fits in their mouth they eat it. I don't know anyone who has tried feeding them on an algae diet. Tilapia are one of the few that can eat all types of algae, including blue-green algae.

You can play catfish volleyball by making a dough-ball bigger than their mouth and throwing it in. They will knock it all over the tank before they finally get some of it to come off. Tons of fun :twisted:

JCO
04-30-2009, 03:16 PM
You can truly tell waht kind of person someone is when they have nothing better to do than agrivate poor little ole catfish by putting food in with them that's too big for them to eat....my Grandmother would say "Be Shamed" :lol: :mrgreen:

wolfracer
04-30-2009, 04:40 PM
You can play catfish volleyball by making a dough-ball bigger than their mouth and throwing it in. They will knock it all over the tank before they finally get some of it to come off. Tons of fun :twisted:

:lol: I like the way you think!

Thanks Everyone on the responses and congrats Jack on your position as FAQ mod. (sounds Like work to me!)


I am starting to see the cycling happening on my water tests! ammonia going down .25 nitrite and nitrates coming up (between 0-5ppm)Awesome! The plants are responding as well ! Soon it will be fish time. I am thinking of adding a biofilter to the pump sump where the fish tank and river bed flows into it for added filteration, since my growbed volume is less than 1:1 .

badflash
04-30-2009, 06:49 PM
The growbed will be more than adequate for the biofiltration. the 2:1 ratio is to have enough plant mass to remove the nitrates and phosphates. An extra bio-filter won't help with that. Keep an eye on the nitrate levels. When they top 50 ppm, do water changes to bring them down, or add more plants. Vining plants that are fast growing can be used where growbed volume is limted.

wolfracer
05-06-2009, 07:14 PM
Update with Pictures

I noticed that algae was starting to grow in my fish tank, and I read that limiting the amount of light would retard the growth of algae. I also noticed that I was getting large temperature swings in the fish tank. So here is my solution. I purchased some of the R15 Astro Foil and insulated the fish tank. Because of all the piping and tubing this was quite and untertaking. I would recomend any one using an IBC for a fish tank to consider installing the insulation before the tank is full of water and the piping is fully connected. This thing is really starting to look like something from NASA.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics003-1.jpg

I am still cycling my system without fish and I am seeing test results that pretty much indicate I am in the middle of the cycle or nearing the end. Ammonia has dropped to .25 ppm nitrites are up to 1.0 ppm and nitrates are at 10 ppm. the plants are responding really well to the raise in nitrates.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/auquaponics002-1.jpg

My PH is still setting at 8.4 but I am hoping it will drop once the cycling is complete. Is there a good way to get rid of the algae without harming the plants? Or should I not worrry about it now that I have the tank covered and let the fish take care of it once I get them.

Well let me know what you think! :P

jackalope
05-06-2009, 09:02 PM
Unless it's getting real thick, or you're getting pond scum, I wouldn't worry too much about it, You're going with channel cats, aren't you? I believe they will eat a lot of the algae down when you get them in there ..... that's not for their complete diet, mind you, but if they eat algae, that's good for you ! Nice Star Wars holodeck simulation you've got there ..... mind showing us the real FT? :lol: :lol: :lol:

mpugh5@aol.com
05-06-2009, 09:35 PM
wow wolf looks like you've got that party started :idea: :!:

tayl0r
05-07-2009, 04:50 AM
Great system so far Wolfracer, you did a fantastic job. I'm just starting out with this, in the collecting materials and planning phase.
I've got 3 questions for you =)

1) I am curious why you went with 9 small grow beds... was it just because you found them on sale? If you had found a bigger tub would you have used it?

2) What is the duration of each flood and drain cycle?

3) Let me get this straight- you only have 1 pump, which pumps water from the sump into the fish tank? Then a gravity siphon moves the water into the grow beds?

wolfracer
05-07-2009, 08:36 AM
Thanks tayl0r I 'll see if I can answer your questions or at least explain my mindset on this.


1) I am curious why you went with 9 small grow beds... was it just because you found them on sale? If you had found a bigger tub would you have used it?

My thinking here was based on space and companion planting. I have a very limited amount of space inside the greenhouse and I wanted to contain the system to it. Having 9 seperate growbeds I was thinking wether right or wrong , that I could do some companion planting. (keep the roots of non compatible plants from co-mingling). If I was to redesign I May have opted for a few bigger ones and some smaller. I defintely need to expand to get the 2:1 ratio.


2) What is the duration of each flood and drain cycle?

The flood and drain duration is about 1 cycle every 20 minutes 15 min. fill and 5 min drain.


Let me get this straight- you only have 1 pump, which pumps water from the sump into the fish tank? Then a gravity siphon moves the water into the grow beds?

-yes one pump in the sump nearest the fish tank. the sump that the growbeds drain to is tied by a 1 1/2'" pipe to the pump sump. This pump runs continuosly, I have an overflow line that maintains the level in the fish tank. This is what the Aussies have labeled as a CHIFT-PIST or Constant Hieght in Fish Tank- Pump in Sump Tank.

This really simplifies things and requires less power. I am really proud to say that my over all power use counting pump and air pump is 67 watts.

Hope that helps.

tayl0r
05-07-2009, 03:10 PM
Helps a lot. Thanks for the info.

It's neat that aquaponics is so modular. You can always add another grow bed, a sump, or even another fish tank.

wolfracer
05-07-2009, 08:11 PM
Helps a lot. Thanks for the info.

It's neat that aquaponics is so modular. You can always add another grow bed, a sump, or even another fish tank.

Yeah that's another mod I Intend to make. I would like to add some outside growbeds for the summer growing season, but I am worried that when I shutdown the outside growbeds the inside beds might not be able to handle the fish load. Catfish seem to be the fastest growing fish, but I'm not sure they would be up to harvest wieght when it came time to compress the system.

By the way welcome to the forum! I am looking forward to seeing your progress.

JCO
05-08-2009, 04:59 AM
I don't know about Tayl0r...by viewing his avatar....he seems to be monkeying around a little :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: Welcome to the show Tayl0r and post often, it's the life blood of our existence here and thanks for joining...you won't find a better group of individuals anywhere :D

carson
05-08-2009, 10:12 PM
Your instincts are right, JCO. Taylor is not one to be trusted!

eh, just kidding, he's my older brother :)

Anyway, we're really glad to have found this forum and hopefully this weekend will be the start of a long obsession with aquaponics!

JCO
05-09-2009, 04:41 AM
Well....welcome Carson and a re-welcome to your monkey....I mean older brother.... :lol: and here's hoping this will also be the beginning of a long obsession not only with aquaponics, but also with this forum and website. Welcome to the show. Stay as long as you like and come back soon :mrgreen:

jackalope
05-09-2009, 11:07 PM
Your instincts are right, JCO. Taylor is not one to be trusted!

eh, just kidding, he's my older brother :)

Anyway, we're really glad to have found this forum and hopefully this weekend will be the start of a long obsession with aquaponics!

Welcome to the forum taylOr and carson ..... glad to have you here ;)

wolfracer
05-10-2009, 07:25 AM
Welcome Carson! Glad to see more people getting into this. The more we have the more we can learn from each other.



Anyway, we're really glad to have found this forum and hopefully this weekend will be the start of a long obsession with aquaponics!

obsession is right! I spend way to much time on this, but enjoy every minute!

wolfracer
05-16-2009, 07:58 PM
I spoke to the guy that I bought my catfish from, and it might be a bit before I can get some more because of all the high water. So I went out and got 24 large goldfish and they seem to be doing well. Time will tell, once I can get my cats, these will be what they were intended for bait!
I also put up sun shade today because the greenhouse got rather warm yesterday and the plants looked slightly cooked.

Here's my question, I have plenty of catfish pellets will the goldfish eat these?

jackalope
05-16-2009, 08:35 PM
Here's my question, I have plenty of catfish pellets will the goldfish eat these?

Goldies will eat just about anything, from what I've seen ...... just don't go to Koko's (http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/) and tell them you're using them for food, bait, or anything else other than a pet. Also, don't tell them that you have more than 1 goldie per 10 gallons ;) Anything like that will get you flamed ;) (Voice of experience) :!:

badflash
05-17-2009, 11:28 AM
ClorAm-X isn't approved by the FDA. They say it is not under their jurisdiction. There is a difference. It does look like a good product and inexpensive too.

The ultimate water test is daphnia (water fleas). Any chemical you use for water conditioning, FDA approved or not, should be tested to see if daphnia can live in aged water so treated. If you can produce a growing population of daphnia it is a good treatment. If not, then reconsider. Taking out chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia is only one aspect. Also keep in mind that most of the harmful chemicals are simply bound up and not actually removed.

My water source had loads of other stuff like hydrocarbons and PCB's. Daphnia never had a chance. Now with my water filter in place they thrive. Removal is better than adding stuff.

badflash
05-18-2009, 03:35 PM
It may be completely safe, but that has not been determined. Try the water flea test. If they thrive, no worries.

People will say anything to sell a product. The truth is not a barrier to a good sales pitch.


BTW- I've used Amquel+ for years and this is pretty much the same thing. Kodon and he parted ways and Kordon appears to have done this fellow a dirty deal. Amquel+ worked fine for me until the town started treating with Chloramine, after that my inverts failed to thrive and I could no longer grow water fleas. The Kold-Sterile filter fixed that for me.

I use Amquel+ for shipping critters and it works fine for that. Be aware that many test kits for nitrate, nitrite, etc. will not give reliable readings when using these chemicals.

wolfracer
05-24-2009, 12:13 PM
Time for an update

Fish are doing really well, over a week and no losses. Water chemistry is doing really well also. ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all hovering around zero. PH is still a little high at 8.2 but I think this will go down over time as the small amount of limestone is dissolved.

I have been fighting a new issue now Heat! The green house is getting to hot for the plants and they are suffering . So I added shade cloth which helped alot but still wasn't enough.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse002-3.jpg

Shade cloth

Next came the exhaust fan this works rather well and keeps the plants around 80 during the 85 - 90 degree parts of the day. (who knew it would get that hot in may in kansas).
I still need to get a protective vent on the outside.
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse003-2.jpg
Exhaust fan

If you look real close at the picture you can see a small brown tube hanging down from the roof. This is part of a misting system I am trying out. This brings me to the question I have for you guys.

Since this is ran off of the Rural water and it contains chloamine how much risk is there of contaminating my fish tank given the small amount of mist this produces (only using 3 nozzles)?

jackalope
05-30-2009, 10:07 PM
Time for an update


If you look real close at the picture you can see a small brown tube hanging down from the roof. This is part of a misting system I am trying out. This brings me to the question I have for you guys.

Since this is ran off of the Rural water and it contains chloamine how much risk is there of contaminating my fish tank given the small amount of mist this produces (only using 3 nozzles)?

How many GPH are those misting nozzles rated? That will give you an idea of how much Chloramine is being transferred to your FT via the GBs.

I guess we're pretty fortunate here, they don't use Chlorine or Chloramine unless the state comes by and tests the water and then they only use Chlorine for a couple of weeks

wolfracer
06-04-2009, 08:08 AM
Time for an update !

Got a call from the fish farm guy on Monday saying the water had gone down far enough for him to capture some more fry. I went over last night and picked up 50 catfish fry about 3-4" long.

Learned something about GPS's and country roads, when I turned down the road to his place I am glad I had my 4wd hemi Dodge quad cab because I had to battle thru 1-1/2 miles of nothing but mud to get back to a civilized road.
While I was talking to him , he said he supplied fish to guy in Oklahoma that is running an aquaponics system raising catfish and selling Swiss chard commercially. Basically he told Mark that he could grow chard the best and fastest and had a market outlet for it.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/fish001.jpg
Bag of 50 Catfish Fry

The Bok Choy I had got creamed by the heat so I replaced it with zuchinni which is going absolutely nuts! I also planted cherry tomato plants where my spinach was struggling and they seem to be doing rather well. The green bean plants I planted are also doing well , they are growing twice as fast as the ones that were planted at the same time in my regular garden plot. The original Tomato's I planted are really looking wasted to many transistion's from lack of nutrients & high heat & high PH before I got everything stabilized I think. Pepper plants are still hanging in but they are just not doing that well. My PH is coming down (7.8) but I don't have where it needs to be. Kinda of wished I had gone with Hydroton instead of gravel but just couldn't afford it. That would have beedn the difference between doing this and not.
I will try and get some pictures of the plants in the next day or two.

Still working on the misting system but it has kinda of back burnered itself while I sort out other life issues.

wolfracer
06-04-2009, 08:11 AM
Next came the exhaust fan this works rather well and keeps the plants around 80 during the 85 - 90 degree parts of the day
Nice! What temp does your water stay at?

I haven't seen it go over 80 yet, but since I'm at work during the hottest part of the day I'm I might be missing it.

JeffW
06-09-2009, 10:32 AM
wolfracer your green house is nice, you did well

wolfracer
06-09-2009, 05:30 PM
Jeffw,
Thanks thing s are really starting to fall into place, PH is dropping and the plants are really taking off!
How's the Soil Joy going ? Haven't heard from you in a while I was starting to wonder.

jackalope
06-09-2009, 07:00 PM
Jeffw,
Thanks thing s are really starting to fall into place, PH is dropping and the plants are really taking off!
How's the Soil Joy going ? Haven't heard from you in a while I was starting to wonder.

Me too!

wolfracer
06-12-2009, 09:26 AM
As i promised earlier I am posting pictures of the plants to show the amazing amount of growth in a short amount of time. The first pic is looking in the doorway of the greenhouse showing as much of the growbeds as the angle will allow.


http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse019.jpgbeds

I replaced the Bok Choy I had planted with a zuchini plant this may ne have been a mistake as this thing is exploding in size!

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse001-3.jpgzuchini

The leaf lettuce I planted just kinda set there until the PH of the system fell below 7.8 then it really took off.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse003-3.jpgletuce

Here is beans and cherry tomatos I planted the beans at the same time i planted them in the dirt garden but these are twice as tall and are flowering already.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse004-2.jpgbeans and cherry tomatos

Here are the river beds system, the tall leafy plants at the top are swiss chard the big ones one the bottom right are believe it or not radishes. I also have tarragon, dill, basil, spinach, and thyme in these.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse006-2.jpgriverbeds

Here is the Basil, I probably need to thin these out but I think I will leave the to see how far they will go.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse007-2.jpgbasil

Below is the taragon which is starting to take off.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse009.jpgtarragon

The nice thing about this project is I have yet to pull out 1 weed.

Thanks for looking and comments suggestions welcome!

jackalope
06-12-2009, 11:29 AM
You're way ahead of me in everything except tomatoes wolfracer ...... looking good !

JGudde
06-13-2009, 10:22 AM
I am a newbie but this looks like a great build.
Wolfracer what is the bottom of siphon tube like
is it on the bottom of the tank with slots or is it
raised above the bottom of the tank? I am also
wondering how big your pump is.
Again this is a great thread to follow.
Thanks

wolfracer
06-13-2009, 10:59 AM
I am a newbie but this looks like a great build.
Wolfracer what is the bottom of siphon tube like
is it on the bottom of the tank with slots or is it
raised above the bottom of the tank? I am also
wondering how big your pump is.
Again this is a great thread to follow.
Thanks


The siphon is about a 1/4" above the bottom this allows enough flow but the fish can't get through it. I don't have it glued so every now and then i swivel it around to clear any sediment.

I started with a 450 gph pump but I backed down to a 350 gph pump which uses about 35 watts. It seems to be working good.

JGudde
06-13-2009, 11:50 AM
I forgot to ask what make of pump are you using?

jackalope
06-13-2009, 09:13 PM
I am a newbie but this looks like a great build.
Wolfracer what is the bottom of siphon tube like
is it on the bottom of the tank with slots or is it
raised above the bottom of the tank? I am also
wondering how big your pump is.
Again this is a great thread to follow.
Thanks

JGudde, Welcome to the forum ...... we're all newbies, because the person that stops learning in life is no longer alive ;) Take a look at GaryD's setup ---- a product of 3 years of experimentation --- you learn as you go, utilizing advice gathered along the way :D
We look forward to seeing your input as you progress on your quest toward GMO freedom ;) :!:

wolfracer
06-14-2009, 11:55 AM
I forgot to ask what make of pump are you using

Brand: Little Giant
Model: PES-380-PW
Little Giant PES-380-PW 350 GPH - Mag Drive Pond Pump, 15' power cord (566294) Specifications:
• Shut Off: 9'
• Voltage: 120
• Hertz: 60
• Amps: 0.58
• Watts: 35
• Weight: 3.1 lbs.
• Height: 4.3"
• Width: 3"
• Length: 6"

wolfracer
06-25-2009, 08:43 AM
New Pictures!

Things have been going really well with this. Once my PH dropped below 7.8 the plants just took off!

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouseandboat004.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouseandboat006.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouseandboat008.jpg

I had to put cage's around the cherry tomatos and the green beens because of the excessive growth.

We have also had temperature near 100 F all week but the fish tank has stayed near or below 80F. I guess the insulation is doing it's job. 1 thing I have noticed is that I have to add a little more water than usual because of the evaporation. I think I need to seal up the sumps a little better to help with this. So far no fish deaths, and the water chemistry is really good 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 nitrate with the PH being 7.6 .

I have also noticed that the goldfish and catfish have really segragated themselves with the gold fish on top and catfish on bottom. If you look real close you can see the catfish at the bottom.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouseandboat010.jpg

Well let me know what you think!

wild
07-11-2009, 03:30 AM
Once my PH dropped below 7.8 the plants just took off!

There are a variety of elements (iron being one of them) that are "locked up" and not biologically available to plants as PH rises. It is only when PH drops below 8 that the plants will be able to access more of the elements in the water - the lower the PH, the easier it is for the plants to access them.

I have heard a number of stories on the forums of people complaining about leaves of their plants going "yellow" even though they were adding iron chelates to the water. It wasn't until the PH dropped below 8 that the problem fixed itself.

Cheers, Andrew.

wolfracer
07-11-2009, 11:23 AM
Yeah I knew that was my problem but with all the limestone around here even the well water is highly alkaline. It has been a battle, but I am winning!

badflash
07-11-2009, 01:42 PM
You can condition your make-up water with a little Muratic Acid. You can get it by the gallon at home depot. It doesn't take very much, so be careful if you use it.

wolfracer
07-12-2009, 08:06 AM
Is there a ratio to this? I am assumming you base it on begining PH vs target PH.

badflash
07-12-2009, 08:59 AM
You could calculate it, but depending on the species of what is buffering the water, you need different amounts. I put in an eye dropper full (5ml) per 100 gallons, wait an hour and test. Repeat until the pH is where you want it. Be sure to have lots of flow to be sure it is all mixed. As the pH drops, more limestone may go into solution, so it can take some time to get it where you want it.

Remember that pH is a log scale, so as you go from 9 to 8 it takes 10 times as much acid as it takes to go from 8 to 7. Go cautiously. Use rubber gloves and a face shield. You can't replace your eyes.

wolfracer
07-12-2009, 11:55 AM
Thanks now that I got my well going this will help a bunch!

jackalope
07-12-2009, 06:49 PM
You can condition your make-up water with a little Muratic Acid. You can get it by the gallon at home depot. It doesn't take very much, so be careful if you use it.

I've been using white vinegar instead of other acids (trying to stay organic as much as possible) ...... it lowers the PH, but the next day it's right back up to over 8.0 :? :? and without any water changes ......... when I do water changes, I put vinegar in the water as well as ascorbic acid, the PH is 7.4, but the next day ...... you guessed it, over 8.0 :( :(

badflash
07-12-2009, 09:22 PM
Sounds like something is buffering your water. Before you go overboard, double check your pH kit. These things go bad fast.

jackalope
07-13-2009, 07:12 AM
Sounds like something is buffering your water. Yeah, I just can't seem to figure out what .....



Before you go overboard, double check your pH kit. These things go bad fast.I've got two of them, one old and one new ....... they both read the same :( :(

badflash
07-13-2009, 08:39 AM
When all else fails, take in a water sample and see what is in your water.

jackalope
07-13-2009, 06:10 PM
When all else fails, take in a water sample and see what is in your water.

I'll ask the town water gal, she knows all that stuff ;)

wolfracer, sorry to be crapping your thread ..... I'll start a new one next time ..... :lol: :lol:

badflash
07-13-2009, 08:39 PM
Forget crapping on threads. When are you going to read your PM's?

wolfracer
08-21-2009, 10:01 AM
I thought I would post an update to the project.
I pulled out the non producing zuchinni and planted them in the ouside garden, and they survived despite 100 degree temps and brutal handling. I decided to replant the leaf lettuce and spinach where they were. I also planted some brussel sprouts and artichoke but I haven't seen much from these yet.
The west end of the greenhouse is totally out of control! I should have spent more time as things were growing to hang them up or something. I will try to straighten it out this weekend.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse005-1.jpg


The river bed system is in an equally overgrown state depite my harvesting of the swiss chard and basil leaves. I guess I will be doing those again this weekend also.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse006-3.jpg

here is the lettuce after 2 weeks from planting.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse007-3.jpg

Soon I will be looking at planting a fall crop and adding to the river bed system. I am quite pleased with the outcomes so far, and I am looking forward to taking this to the next level.

Question for everyone is this , I am starting to build up some solids in my sumps does anyone have a good way of cleaning this out?
I am planning on my first 50% water change this weekend so maybe I can get some pics of the fish.
Enjoy ,

Wolfracer

badflash
08-21-2009, 10:35 AM
I use a wet/dry vac. Suck it up, dump it in the beds.

wolfracer
08-21-2009, 01:41 PM
Thanks I'll give that a try.

jackalope
08-22-2009, 10:57 PM
I use a wet/dry vac. Suck it up, dump it in the beds.
I think the solids and excess feed are what ended up in my beds and went septic ..... whew, what an odor! now I've got only water until the tomatoes quit qroducing ..... then I'm going to tear it all apart and get ready for winter ..... we're already into fall here, our summer only lasts from about mid-May to mid-August some years. At least I'll have a head start next spring ;)

JGudde
08-25-2009, 09:03 AM
Have you started on your floor heat system yet?
How late are you going to try and run November/December?

wolfracer
08-25-2009, 02:33 PM
Have you started on your floor heat system yet?
How late are you going to try and run November/December?

Untill it won't go any longer. I am approacjing all of this as a proff of concept. My goal would be to get an all year system devoloped.

jackalope
08-25-2009, 08:45 PM
Have you started on your floor heat system yet?
How late are you going to try and run November/December?

Untill it won't go any longer. I am approacjing all of this as a proff of concept. My goal would be to get an all year system devoloped.

If you were to run mineral oil through there, it's non-flammable and it won't freeze!

Breed
09-03-2009, 09:36 AM
Wolfracer
We are lucky enough to have a landscape company close to our house. It is $28.00 a ton for pea gravel. We also live close to the Missouri & Mississippi rivers and gravel is cheap from them - $17.00 a ton. BUT - you have to hire a subcontractor to deliver which is $80.00! So we went with the landscaper and took our truck and loaded it ourselves and saved some money.
Breeding :D

JGudde
10-15-2009, 02:48 PM
I was wondering if you got started on your floor heat?
Its starting to cool off!

wolfracer
10-17-2009, 09:34 AM
Yes I have started on it. I put a small electric water heater (4 gallon) on it. it works minimally on warmer nights (above 45 it keeps it around 60 degrees). right now I am shopping for a propane water heater around 30 gallons or so. the electric ones just don't have a fast enough recovery rate. I put a small 1500 watt oil heater in ther with it at it is making up the difference for now.

wolfracer
10-17-2009, 10:32 AM
Well I haven't posted any pictures lately and I know you all love pictures! I have been really busy lately with systems upgrades and stuff at work, so the project hasn't recieved the attention it deserves. I added the 4 gallon water heater to my radiant heat and with the small oil heater it works fairly well. At the time of this picture it was 42 F outside and 73.4 F inside with cloud cover. Notice the condensation on the walls in these pictures.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse012-2.jpg

Plant and fish growth has been phenomenal, I have dehydrated over 2 pints of basil and harvested about 5 lbs of swiss chard from the river bed system. The growbeds are doing really well. Lettuce and celery have really taken off lately. Brussel sprouts are really going.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse017-1.jpg

What is amazing is the tomato plant growth. Both the cherry tomato's and the better boy plants have just grown over everything. If there is some thing they can grow on they do it. even though the temps have been below freezing outside these things are still flowering and producing tomatos.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse016-1.jpg

Here are the regular tomato's trying to take over the fish tank.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse018.jpg

Things are moving along well. I also have exciting news! We have purchased the 3 lots diagonally across from us, and we are planning to build this into a retirement business over the next 5-6 years.We are thinking it will be a combination of aquaponics and regular gardening to sell at the local farmers markets and resturants. Hopefully when I retire from the college it will be up an running.

Well enjoy and let me know what you think.

stucco
10-17-2009, 01:40 PM
:shock: WOW!

mpugh5@aol.com
10-19-2009, 05:58 PM
looking good wolf, it's been a joy watching you develop your system. i'd still like to see those fish ;)

wolfracer
10-20-2009, 09:17 AM
i'd still like to see those fish ;)

I hadn't figured that one out yet. I don't want to net them. Thier fins get caught in the net and it makes a mess getting them unstuck. When they come up from the bottom to eat they are too fast to get a picture with my digital camera. The bottom where they hangout is 40" down and the insulation makes it dark, so I can't get thier picture that way. Any Ideas?

I added a 29 gallon propane water heater to my radiant heat, and pulled out the 4 gallon electric one, it is working great now and the water heater hardly runs. Still need colder weather to definitively test it, but I am thinking that I have this part solved.

wolfracer
10-20-2009, 03:45 PM
I set my camera for 3 shot burst and got this one! certainly not one of the big ones for sure.


http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse011.jpg

Here is the propane water heater for the floor heat the thing hardlly even runs.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse003-4.jpg

stucco
10-21-2009, 06:24 PM
What type of pump runs the floor heating?

mpugh5@aol.com
10-22-2009, 09:15 PM
nice, how is the floor heat set up? i'm on the trail of a 100,000 btu pool heater(propane). i don't want to cook anything when i set up. i'd really would of perfered a multi fuel boiler but i don't have multi fuel money at this time.

Breed
12-16-2009, 08:31 PM
mommyhen42 -
We used 2' X 3' containers from Lowes. They are a polytank type material. They cost $12.00. It took 5 bags of pea gravel to fill them. Yes they are very muddy. We hooked a hose to the drain and washed the gravel in the containers, but drained the water to the sewer. We were in the basement. The side will bow badly if not on real solid base. We used 2" X 10" boards several inches wider and longer than the tub. We bought pea gravel from Lowes but discovered it was for landscaping and it has such small gravel it was almost like sand and would go through the drain into the fish tank. So we went to Home Depot and got the real stuff. We have 3 beds working now with 3 more to come as soon as babies grow big enough not to get sucked into the pump. No more filters!
No more fish poop! We are waiting for Spring when we can go outside to the big stuff. We are growing lots in our mini-aquaponics and testing what we want to grow outside and what will grow best. Good luck :D

davidstcldfl
12-17-2009, 06:19 PM
Hi Wolfracer, I finally finished reading your building thread. "Nice greenhouse" Man,some of the plants were/are going crazy ! :) I was impressed with how warm you can keep the green house.

One minor thing, that 'you may already be aware of'..... I noticed you used pvc to hook up your hot water tank. I couldn't tell if it's pvc or cpvc, sorry... my monitor's color is 'off' some. If it's just pvc, you may want to keep an eye on the discharge line. The heat can soften the pvc and/or cement joints. Also, over a period of time,it may get brittle. Shouldn't be a problem for a few years.
I'm over cautious I guess, I like to have a foot or two of copper, comming right off the tank, because it's always hot. Then I switch to cpvc.

wolfracer
12-29-2009, 05:41 PM
Well I thought I would post an update of my project. I have managed to keep things going despite really cold temperatures. The radiant heat definately works, but more insulation would make it more economical. I am going to to do this to the house some time in the future. Here is the greenhouse with all the snow and the 2 IBC's that were given to me.( suppossed to get a few more) I am planning on using these for rain water collection system in the spring.
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse002-4.jpg


The Fish are doing great, some are well over a pound. I have not lost any fish for over 2 months. Even the gold fish refuse to die. One thing I have noticed is when the cats come up from the bottom they will get out of the way most of the time. Of course when I took this picture they were in the way, go figure.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse010-1.jpg

I have started some beans in the riverbed just to see if I could get them to do anything. So far so good

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse004-3.jpg

The cherry tomato's are still doing okay but I had a little issue with the fish tank feed system to this growbed. every now and then it just plugs up with crap and the water stops flowing this kinda stressed the plants out but I think I got it working correctly now.


http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse006-4.jpg

It was kinda nice being able to harvest tomatos today when it is 27 degrees on December 29th in Kansas.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse016-2.jpg

Any way there are several things I need to add to this system to make it more viable for a family to survive on.

1. I need more space. Bigger greenhouse for sure.

2. A more economical hot water source for the radiant heat heat such as solar/wind with wood back up.

3. A better plan for crop rotation to ensure a more constant output from the system.

As usual let me know what you think , because as I continue to upgrade this project all input is welcome.

davidstcldfl
12-29-2009, 07:25 PM
WOW, Wolfracer ! A bucket of 'maters sittin' in the snow...lol. Gotta love it.... :D
You said it was 27 outside (Brrrr).....what is the tempt inside your green house ?

The plants and 'cats' are looking nice.

I must confess, I'm a little 'green'... :mrgreen: ....over your new IBC's. I found some at a good price.....but the cash didn't come through :(

Looking forward to some more pictures and updates. Take care....Dave

wolfracer
12-30-2009, 08:11 AM
We had another 1 1/2" of snow last night, temp outsude is 30 degrees and the greenhouse is 60 degrees in the front and 62 degrees in the back.

Yeah I am pretty fortunate with the IBC's. He just drives right up to the greenhouse and drops them off. Costs me nothing.

wolfracer
01-09-2010, 04:05 PM
Ran into a bit of an issue with these cold temps (-5 F). Greenhouse is staying plenty warm (lows around 52 F ). but my well froze and I haven't been able to top off the sumps. We had a power failure yesterday which caused the sumps to overflow and when the power came back on it pumped the sumps really low, on top of that I had a growbed overflow and now the sumps are so low that water is not flowing in the system.

This is a definte drawback to to this type of design if the sumps go dry then the flow stops. Since we have chloramine in our public water system I am not sure what I am going to do until I can get my well unthawed.

temp is suppossed to get back down below zero again tonite.

stucco
01-09-2010, 04:08 PM
Could you use amquil to treat the city water?

wolfracer
01-09-2010, 04:21 PM
Don't have any and I live pretty far from any where.

stucco
01-09-2010, 04:31 PM
I think Wal-Mart carries it.

wolfracer
01-09-2010, 04:40 PM
If I can't get things going tonite I will shoot in there (30 min drive). And thanks This won't mess with eating of the fish will it?

stucco
01-09-2010, 04:50 PM
I don’t think it will, but I’m not 100%. I’ll check their web site. I hope not, I’ve used the stuff when I couldn’t get enough rain water. :?

stucco
01-09-2010, 05:28 PM
It took some searching. Their f.a.q section is down right now, but this is what I came up with. :mrgreen: .AmQuel Plus® gives you all the same fine features of original
AmQuel - plus it quickly removes nitrates and nitrites! Amquel Plus
controls and removes all forms of ammonia, chlorine, chloramines
and toxic pheromones from both fresh and salt water. AmQuel
Plus is nontoxic to all aquarium inhabitants or biological filters as
well as humans and pets.
Add AmQuel Plus to existing aquariums or to new water during
water changes. In general AmQuel Plus does not affect the water's
pH, and removes toxic
organics from older water for
fewer water changes.
AmQuel Plus has a non-toxic
odor that quickly disappears
in water.

jackalope
01-09-2010, 09:44 PM
Vitamin C removes chlorine and also cloramines, I think! I've been using ascorbic acid since they told us about it in this thread: Removing chlorine from tap water with Vitamin C? Clik ;) (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?118-removing-chlorine-from-tap-water-with-Vitamin-C)

I buy my ascorbic acid in the health foods store in Billings .... I buy it in bulk by the pounds, rather than prepackaged!

jackalope
01-09-2010, 10:28 PM
Vitamin C removes chlorine and also cloramines, I think! I've been using ascorbic acid since they told us about it in this thread: Removing chlorine from tap water with Vitamin C? Clik ;) (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?118-removing-chlorine-from-tap-water-with-Vitamin-C)

I buy my ascorbic acid in the health foods store in Billings .... I buy it in bulk by the pounds, rather than prepackaged! I use charcoal and zeolites to remove ammonia, etc. I just go to the thrift shop and pick up new or used pantyhose/nylons for $.50 each, pour some zeolites (when I can get it) or WalMart aquarium charcoal into the 'sock, tie a knot in it, cut off the excess, and put it in the tank .... it floats around because it gets an air bubble in it, but after a few days it sinks ..... when it gets clogged with algae, I take it out and swish it around in some of the water I draw out, then I put it back in to go again .... I only use them two or three times before I throw them away! Zeolites are the best, but they are expensive, so I buy them at thrift stores (they are used for removing odors, etc., put them in a nylon, and use them the same way as the charcoal .... the good thing about zeolites is that every month or so, you just take them out, soak them overnight in water with a couple of spoons of aquarium salt, rinse them real good in non-city water and you're good to go!

The only problem with buying the nylons is that the gal in the thrift store would probably think I'm a cross-dresser, so I have the wife buy them for me! :lol: :lol: :lol:

JCO
01-10-2010, 08:05 AM
I was just about to ask you what color of heels (or do you wear heels in all that snow) and purse you liked the best :shock: :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

badflash
01-10-2010, 08:12 AM
Amquel+ is safe, but expensive. Sodium Ascorbate is what I use. Quite cheap, safe and effective.
See removing chlorine from tap water with Vitamin C? (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?118-removing-chlorine-from-tap-water-with-Vitamin-C)

wolfracer
01-10-2010, 10:30 AM
Good news Well started pumping again after putting 2 150 watt flood lights in the well house and the temp got above 20 F. I started getting good ole well water. Still waiting for a hose to unthaw, but I carried 10 five gallon buckets enough to get a good flow going. I will top it off after the hose unthawed. Greenhouse is a nice and cozy 82 F. Guess I'll go and pick a couple of tomatos and have a sandwich!

Thanks for all the help during my little crisis!

jackalope
01-10-2010, 01:26 PM
Glad to see you got it all sorted wolfracer it always sucks when things are not working because they are froze up! We had warm weather the last two days, it only got down to 20F last nite .... I hope this lasts for a few months :lol: :lol: but I know it won't :roll: :roll: We'll probably be sending some of this warm weather to you soon ;)

dwaller
03-05-2010, 11:57 AM
I'd be interested in learning more about how you are heating the greenhouse. Are you using primarily radiant heat, or is it a combination of the radiant and oil heater? Here's a few questions I have in regards to the radiant heat:

* Do you have a thermostat that kicks water heater on?
* Do you use a pump to move water from the tank through the floor?
* How much propane are you going through to keep the house heated to you last state low of 52F?

I love your setup, and must say that yours really inspired me to start researching aquaponics in hopes of beginning my own project.

wolfracer
03-06-2010, 03:36 PM
Thanks dwaller!

To answer your question I have a 115 volt thermostat that is wired to a plug in that controls both the pump and the oil heater. When the thermostat kicks in the pump starts moving water thru the system . I just use a 400 gph pond pump that sets in a half barrel, the water comes out of the floor and into the barrel, the pump then pumps it into the water heater and from the water heater to the floor. I only use the radiant heat when it is going to be really cold 20 degressor lower otherwise the oil heater does a pretty good job. When the radiant heat is running fulltime I use about 40 dollars a week in propane.

wolfracer
03-14-2010, 10:03 AM
Has anyone done strawberries in thier system? I was reading that they can suffer from root rot so I was wondering how well they might do in an aquaponics setup? Any info would be helpful?

stucco
03-14-2010, 10:27 AM
If you have salt in your system they will not grow. :(

dufflight
03-17-2010, 03:43 AM
some people do okay with a 1ppt of salt. I have one strawberry plant thats running like mad in one of the gb's. I like to keep a min of 1ppt(1kg of sea salt per thousand ltrs).

badflash
03-17-2010, 04:06 PM
Flood & drain is needed with many plants. Most don't like the roots under water full time.

markcaso
04-16-2010, 06:33 AM
The supply line from your FT that goes to your GB is that a T on the inside of the FT. So the water will pull from the bottom of the tank and the T keeps it from Siphoning? I like you system and thinking of going with this design. Anything you don't like about it?

wolfracer
04-16-2010, 09:02 AM
The supply line from your FT that goes to your GB is that a T on the inside of the FT. So the water will pull from the bottom of the tank and the T keeps it from Siphoning? I like you system and thinking of going with this design. Anything you don't like about it?

That is exactly what is going on.

What I would change is a better design on the riverbed system. And the supply line to the grow beds probably could be larger. Everything else has worked out great.

markcaso
04-18-2010, 10:21 AM
Is your riverbed system a NFT system or a flood system, If it's a flood how much of the tube is flooded, is there anything in the tubes besides water? Also what size pvc tubing do you recommend from the FT to the GB.

wolfracer
04-18-2010, 12:10 PM
I guess it was a flooded system as in the water just flows thru the tubes and cups with very fine gravel are suspended in it. As far as the feed line to the growbeds I think i would have been better off with a 2" line instead of 1-1/2".

stucco
04-18-2010, 01:51 PM
hey wolfracer :P how is your camera workin :?:

Emmett
06-09-2010, 05:44 AM
Hi Wolfracer, you mentioned you'd like a more economical way of heating the water for the radiant system. Here's an option. http://www.hilkoil.com/ has stainless steel tubing that you can run though a woodstove. You can burn just about anything in a cheap woodstove and maybe even heat the air if the stove is in the greenhouse.

Just a thought. :D

Doc
06-29-2010, 07:33 PM
hey wolfracer :P how is your camera workin :?:
So wolfracer, did you get a new camera? I figured the old one must be broke cuz there ain't been any new pics for awhile. :shock: :lol: Would really be interested in getting an update. Your system really inspired me.

Doc

~

wolfracer
06-30-2010, 05:25 AM
I have been so busy with work and all, that I Pretty much feed the fish and pick the greens and go in for the night. I will try and get some pics.

wolfracer
07-18-2010, 08:05 AM
I haven't posted anything in a while so I thought maybe I should get off my butt and get something done here.

I have been really busy with work and other projects so my system hasn't been getting the attention it needs. I constructed a swirl filter a couple of months ago to help with the amount of sediment the fish were creating. It has worked very well. I let things go until yesterday and you wouldn't believe the amount of sediment collected by this filter.
Basically what I have is a 55 gallon barrel with a 3/4" line running into it that tees into opposite facing elbows. this creates the swirling action. It is fed by a little giant 400 gph pump in the bottom of the fish tank. Water is returned to the fish tank by a overflow at the top of the tank. This is also helping to add aeration to the water. I have also added a layer of furnace filter material to the barrel. This helps to trap floater stuff ( sorry don't have a better term for it ) in the filter. Here some pics, I am sorry the quality isn't better but it was 100 degrees outside and I have no Idea how hot in the greenhouse so I was constantly wiping sweat from my eyes and couldn't really focus all that well.

This shows the tee and elbow arrangement with the pump turned on.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse003-5.jpg

This is the filter material . I just layer it over the tee piping and clamp it in place, seems to work okay but I would be happier with some better type of support.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse006-5.jpg

Like I said, I let things go for to long so I decided to do water change and really had to clean the sides of the tank as they were getting pretty filthy. Here is a picture of the fish I took this while I was draining the system. Some of them have gotten quite large since I put them in there a year ago.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse010-2.jpg

I thought I would also include a picture of some greenery just to finish up this post. This is swiss chard and some sweet basil .

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/wolfracers/greenhouse007-4.jpg

I really mucked up the water cleaning the tanks and sumps but I went out this morning and the filter is doing it's job and the water is clear again. This a really simple build, and I believe a definite benefit to the overall health of my system.

Oldandfound1
08-04-2010, 07:39 PM
Inspirational. Read the thread from the first post, and it makes a well documented build. In a good story there are problems, tragedy, success, smiles, good humor and sincere suggestions by contributors.
Thank you for your diligence.
System under construction :
700 + sq. ft. GH Hoop House
About 1,000 gallon CHIFT PIST
!BC 325 tank. Below Ground Sump
Small Camp Wood Stove
Gravel Beds.
Best Wishes,
Dennis
Oldandfound!

wolfracer
08-05-2010, 05:24 AM
Thanks for the comments! I hope this thread will help all who take up this hobby.

johnlvs2run
08-05-2010, 11:04 AM
Wolfracer, thank you for posting the chronicle of your progress.
I read through the thread a couple of days ago, and have a few questions.

Do you feel the quartz pea gravel was not low enough in pH?
What do you feel has caused the pH to come down, and what might you do differently with expansion?
I'm considering black volcanic ash, but haven't yet found a reasonable source.

Why might a larger 2" feedline be better?
If due to clogging, maybe a screen could alleviate that from happening?

Is each loop siphon independent of the others?
I wonder if perpetual opposing siphons would be possible in a system.
For example as one set of siphons empty, the lower water level would trigger the opposing set of siphons.

mike
01-24-2011, 11:30 PM
Thanks for the documentation! Your wife found a good resource cutting down deep containers. Costs below $2.00 USD/sq ft is hard to find in 12" deep ebb and flow beds. Surface area cost management will make this affordable to all. You might want to make sure your loop siphon gets up to the surface minus about 2 inches so that you maximize biofiltration depth while avoiding over growth of algae with surface water! Your prototype picture had your loop a little low from what I saw??...

JCO
02-06-2011, 08:15 AM
Wolfracer, how's the system peculating these days. Give us an update....we might want to stop by for a salad or something :mrgreen:

wolfracer
12-05-2011, 01:30 PM
Right now the system is shut down for winter, but I am thinking of starting it up with a new direction --- Fresh water shrimp in the spring.

foodchain
12-05-2011, 01:34 PM
Prawns or Shrimp?
They are different. Prawns are very territorial. And get large. I have had some success with them, but never by themselves. Only in a poly format, they have a symbiotic relationship with tilapia, I don't beleive it's direct though. I lack the space and equipment to nail down exactly if it's a direct or indirect relationship. Let me know what you find out. I run mine as a seasonal crop, picking up the post larvae in the spring, harvesting in the fall.

JCO
12-05-2011, 04:22 PM
Wolfracer....where have you been????? I made that post 02/06/2011 and you are just now answering....Outta' town or the country??? :mrgreen:

wolfracer
12-06-2011, 11:13 AM
I was thinking Shrimp. Still in the research stage but I need something that has a short season. The catfish I did just take to long. It also gets way to hot here in Kansas.

keith_r
12-06-2011, 11:50 AM
freshwater shrimp should be an option for you.. quite a few ponds in ohio, and it's getting bigger
http://southcenters.osu.edu/aqua/pdfs/shrimpfaq.pdf

foodchain
12-06-2011, 12:33 PM
Too hot for catfish?
Never tried shrimp. Just the prawns. Where would your seed stock come from?

wolfracer
12-06-2011, 01:12 PM
Too hot for catfish?
Never tried shrimp. Just the prawns. Where would your seed stock come from?
The heat didn't bother the cats they just are slow growers. I haven't found a good way to heat my system thru the winter. I was refer to the heat in regards to tilapia. Not sure were to get them but a local farmer has a source.

foodchain
12-06-2011, 01:18 PM
I don't know what the higher heat tolerances are on them. We pushed 110 degrees outside this last summer, and didn't seem to have a problem. The greenback minnows, and sunfish started dying, but everything else seemed to tolerate it. Good luck.

aquaally
11-05-2014, 11:03 PM
Just finished reading 1 to 18. Great job on keeping focused and explaining the progressive build. Excellent pictures made comprehension quick and easy. Where are you almost 3 years later than the last post? aquaally

urbanfarmer
11-07-2014, 03:08 AM
Hi Wolf, and everyone!


Just finished reading 1 to 18. Great job on keeping focused and explaining the progressive build. Excellent pictures made comprehension quick and easy. Where are you almost 3 years later than the last post? aquaally
Has it been that long? :mrgreen:

topz
11-07-2014, 07:13 AM
Well are the catfish grown yet!?! I mean a little feed back wolf could be used here. Welcome back Urban.

JCO
11-07-2014, 02:27 PM
Ya, urbanfarmer's not saying where he's been, but there was something on the news about illegal something being grown somewhere in Florida. Now I'm not sayin' but he has been gone a couple years....very suspicous...wouldn't you say? :roll:

Aloha Don has been missing awhile also as are a few others...I'm not sayin'...just puttin' it out there. :shock: :o

As for Wolfracer...he's been gone for awhile as you can see from my previous post on his thread. I have no idea what happened to him but I hope he's OK. :mrgreen:

Aloha Don
12-19-2014, 11:09 AM
Read my lips...I did not grow any illegal substances with wolf.... :lol: (I can picture Bill saying something like this again)
besides - I am far far away from florida... :D
Still trying to get caught up on everyones threads