View Full Version : Could Organic Produce Be the New Ritalin?

10-08-2010, 09:00 PM
This is a pretty interesting article on organics.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-walter ... 18855.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-walter-crinnion/could-organic-produce-be-_b_718855.html)

There's a doctor here in central fl, who helps treat ADD kids by changing their diets....to a more natural, healthier one. He has a 90% success rate. He also has a few parents who say it's too much effort to make the change.... :roll:
One thing he points out is, a lot of the problems are related to something as simple as, the food dyes...especially the red coloring.

On the 'flip side' of organics....I was listening to an AG agent talking about how there is different kinds of spray they are allowed to be used on 'organics'.
Also another problem is, a large farm may set aside a block of the farm to be organic....problem is, when the non-organic sections are being sprayed, the 'organics' right next to it, is being over-sprayed too.
Read the first two 'comments' at the end of the article....before I talked the the ag agent, I would of thought the comments were from some paranoid 'veggans'.....not so much now.

10-09-2010, 12:29 PM
The studies are not rigorous. All the same, pesticides can't be good for you and something sure as hell has created an ADD epidemic. The problem is that without pesticides of some sort, we can't grow enough food to be the world's bread basket.

10-09-2010, 02:42 PM
we are destroying our land trying to be the worlds food basket, we are depleteing our water and overstressing the earth. let the rest of the world figure it our, if they can't maybe that is a natural form of population control.
i have 5 grandkids that if allowed to eat the chemically formulated food junk that is so prevelent they will show all of the symptoms of ADD, when their diets are restricted to natural fruits and veges with meat without hot dog/lunch meats their symptoms all but dissapear.

their are two different worlds of organic certification. the facilities that produce both types have to have facilities at least 1000 feet apart.

10-12-2010, 08:39 PM
I agree we should allot certain wasted resources to aid our own nation rather than others (both foreign and domestic), but I think your focus on WHAT resources is misplaced. Far more money is wasted on other things than giving aid to other countries, and to be honest we HAVE to do this if for no other reason that for OURSELVES (plus some may argue it's the Christian thing to do, which if we have the resources, I too agree with that).

The global economy is far too complex and ever-influencing for us to simply close our doors, and we ARE a world economy whether we like it or not. To let our neighbors starve and fall into chaos and war would doom us.

Let me share to you one of the most interesting pieces of wisdom my father shared with me. As I was visiting one of his restaurants located in a mall's food court, I scoped out his competition. I spoke with one of the owners next to him. When I returned I told him, "Dad, the guy running the biggest unit other than you is an idiot. You could put him out of business in a few months." He replied to me, "Son, it's better to have an enemy that you know who you can keep weak. If I beat him out of here, my new enemy might be smarter and stronger. I give him advice when his business is getting too slow and talk to him to give him hope. I don't take all his customers that way he has just enough to survive." I stood there stunned at his genius.

I always knew the saying, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer", but I never truly understood its practical applications until that moment.

Basically, the US needs to tread carefully and do what we need to in order to ensure our safety and prosperity. China used to have a closed door policy, and as soon as they became an active member of the global economy, they have been growing more rapidly than you can believe. The US has sold a majority of its national debt to who? China and Japan? Well, I don't need to tell you, we're not alone and we can't act as if we're alone in the world without compromising the welfare of our friends, family, and country.

God bless.

10-13-2010, 04:09 PM
if the focus in our country was on the nutritional quality of the food we grow and not on the ability to mass produce food for export to fill the pockets of wall street (the local farmers are still going out of business) not because of "Christian duty". the incidence of ADD would probably diminish. but the emphasis is on production and the ability of our food products to last on the store shelves for months thanks to the preservatives.

if you believe for one moment that shipping food to foreign countries is to help those poor people and keep them from starvation, i think something has been left out in the equation.

the world bank is not the least bit interested in the christian thing to do.
sorry, oh yes our country has been sold to foreign powers also by the same people that profit from food exportation.

i believe in training people to survive not welfare, but then you can read accounts by the peace corp and how as soon as peace corp voluntiers left the people fell back into their old ways.

10-13-2010, 05:59 PM
I also believe in teaching them to fish, not giving them fish.

10-13-2010, 08:04 PM
Those are all good points, and I'm sure the Truth lies somewhere in between, but likely more towards the existence of profiteering tyrants running our government. Sadly, I am aware that politicians or others in power will exploit the constituents for cold hard cash. However, I cannot discount the fact that there are politicians who try to do good, that there are good people, and hopefully, that there eventually will be a change by the people to self-govern themselves collaboratively as a self-aware and intelligent nation.

Until then I will continue saving my money to build a space colony equipped with an astro-sized aquaponic system and a window large enough to watch the world governments launch ICBMs at each other thereby wiping out the populous populace of the world.


10-14-2010, 03:29 PM
I do believe we have an obligation to help folks become able to produce their own food. Aquaponics and bioponics can go a long way to help accomplish that task.
Just completed a 1000 gal tank in my crowded greenhouse. Cycle with turtles, remove turtles, then add young Koi.

10-14-2010, 04:59 PM
It could be argued that organic agriculture has brought down entire civilizations. Think fertile crescent. Without outside input the fertility was depleted. The problem with organic agriculture is materials handling. It takes a lot of manure to provide the same fertility as a 50 pound bag of triple 20. It is hard to feed the world if you have to rely on organic fertilizer. Believe me I am all for organic agriculture, but it is not sustainable with the current paradigm. Works just fine on my small farm to feed my family though.
Then there is the pesticide issue, which is almost as big of an issue as fertility, but more easily overcome. There are some very effective organic approved pesticides, but they are very expensive, and very short acting. To keep flea beetles off of my eggplant requires nearly 2 applications of neem per week. Do the math, and organic agriculture on any large scale makes very little sense.. Unless we all had much more disposable income to spend on high quality food. In the world 2010 organic food is a luxury.

10-14-2010, 10:36 PM
You are absolutely correct brier which brings us back to maybe this earth can not support as many people as some would like to believe. The cost of mass produced food may be in the long run the most expensive.

10-16-2010, 05:05 PM
Yes, and believe me, the broken system really angers me. I am a guy that longs to be a full time farmer, but the economics make it nearly impossible for a small scale, organically based farm to make it. You can either pay for the land, or pay a salary, it is very difficult to do both. Agribusiness has lowered the cost of food so much that it has all but driven the family farm out of the market. They are over. Within a couple generations it will all be agribusiness. This has in turn caused the American consumer to expect cheap food. I was in a supermarket yesterday, and was amazed. You can buy a whole chicken for less than 4 bucks here in Ohio. How do they do that? In our home produced birds, we have that in feed alone. Then I saw the fall favorite, Indian corn. Dried, and nothing but a decoration, 5 bucks for 4 ears. We will pay more for useless gimmicks and decorations than we will for good food. We have a good customer base, and produce a decent amount of income in our little system, but we are one more piece of bad economic news from losing many of our customers to the local grocery store for $3.49 whole chickens.

10-16-2010, 10:44 PM
You are absolutely correct brier which brings us back to maybe this earth can not support as many people as some would like to believe. The cost of mass produced food may be in the long run the most expensive.
It sounds like you want a seat on my space colony :-)

Yes, and believe me, the broken system really angers me. I am a guy that longs to be a full time farmer, but the economics make it nearly impossible for a small scale, organically based farm to make it. You can either pay for the land, or pay a salary, it is very difficult to do both. Agribusiness has lowered the cost of food so much that it has all but driven the family farm out of the market. They are over.
I don't completely agree with that, and I plan to start a small farm myself. I am still doing the research, but a small farm (especially one integrating aquaponics to lower costs), seems surprisingly feasible. Perhaps we need to have a discussion in the coming months about this :-)

10-17-2010, 08:24 AM
I wish you the best of luck. You might want to look into selling your fish for pond stocking, and aquatic vegetation control. Will give you a leg up on trying to sell fish into the food market.

10-17-2010, 11:12 PM
i will be using KOI fry in hopes that i can sell them at the end of a year to suppliment the cost of my wonderful tasting $10 tomatos. :)

take care

10-18-2010, 03:10 AM
:lol: sounds like a plan.

11-04-2010, 01:18 PM
Hi all,

In my area, in the Pacific NW, there is a strong and growing trend towards locally produced food, including organic meats and produce, coming from an increasing number of small family farms. Sustainable agriculture seems to be taking off like wildfire and the local growers face stiff competition in finding space in the increasing numbers of farmer's markets and organic co-ops. All of the supermarkets are adding fairly well-stocked, though somewhat expensive, organic produce sections. Many of the farms are also participating in "subscription" farming, where urban customers can order weekly packages of assorted produce via the internet. Waiting lists for organic farming internship programs are long, indicating a marked interest by others wanting to learn the techniques.

A couple of commercial methane plants have opened up as well, using manure from dairies to make electricity which is then sold to the local power grid. The spent manure is then sold to local organic growers. In one case, several dairies formed a methane co-op to provide renewable electric power to run their operations. Working with the local utility, PSE, methane-generated electricity is fed into the grid and the participating dairies are given kw-hour credits according to their share of the raw material. Excess electricity is purchased by the utility and the spent manure is used on nearby raspberry farms also owned by the co-op members. This is not a small operation, lending credence to the idea that sustainable practices can readily be adopted at a commercial scale.

As an aside, since hydrogen gas is typically extracted from methane, local dairies could play an important role in providing fuel for a new generation of non-polluting fuel-cell vehicles, lowering dependence on foreign oil while providing local "green" jobs. You could top off your tank and a get a gallon of fresh organic milk and a flat of raspberries at the same time.

It seems to me that organic farming can have a viable future in America once a local market and infrastructure is created. Dairy waste and fertilizer run-off has been killing off local rivers and streams and having a devastating impact on the salt water ecology of Puget Sound and it's diverse fishery, including NW salmon and shellfish. Increasing public pressure and new regulations have forced local dairies and farms to look for alternatives to doing business as usual. Although traditionally slow to change their ways, many local farmers have come to embrace sustainable agriculture once they came to the realization that it could make their businesses more profitable. I believe that it is also creating a fair amount of local pride in the sense of stewardship it engenders.

Having said all that, sustainable practices are still far from universal in this area. However, I do remain optimistic that positive changes will continue to improve the situation as more and more consumers and producers come on board. It's easy to forget that we have a 10,000 year history of "organic" farming practice and tradition, while the 100 year-old petro-farming industry is, in a very real sense, a modern experiment that simply may not stand up to the test of time. If we, as a society, were to invest as heavily into modernizing organic and sustainable agriculture as we have into "traditional" chemical farming, it may be possible to actually keep our food affordable as petroleum prices continue to rise. Not to mention providing our children with an opportunity to live healthier lives.


07-13-2013, 03:31 PM
Well, This has been an interesting read for someone new to the forum, a lot to think about. Can Organic farming and small scale farming be a sustainable business?? I would like to think so, but I do not see it just yet, where I live anyway! The truth is in my area minimum wage jobs is the norm. Quality, seems to matter less and less in our society, people just want something NOW, that is cheap (or so it seems). Much of the problem is people do not fully understand the cost of many of the food choices they make. Like putting money on a credit card, eating unhealthy food does not hurt immediately. Consumers have to be educated as to the benefits of an Organic or Local product, so they can fully understand and appreciate, why they should pay more for your product over the processed product in the store, that in all honesty $$ wise is probably cheaper.
Big business such as Walmart and Con-Agri and a whole list of other Big Agribusiness everyone loves to hate, have become what they are today, because we (that is right you and me have to take some of the credit) just like everyone else, stopped buying locally when they came to town and started shopping there, because it was cheaper, we could buy MORE. Now years later when they are the only ones left, The true cost of our choices really show. They price what they want and they sell what they can make the most profit selling, no mater if it is healthy or not. We as individuals must buy it, because they have squeezed everyone else out of business. Or, by our choices( that is right you and me) did we do that???
We as individuals, as small Mom and Pop stores and small farms have lost our place at the economic table and it will not be easy to get it back. The truth is, some of us or all of us will have to work long hours, get by on small profits, and spend years barely making it, if small farms are going to regain their place as local providers. We will have to do it, not for the reasons the Big Agribusiness does it, because there are millions to be made, but because we BELIEVE in what we are doing. Because we believe our efforts will benefit others. Because we Believe our children's future depends on it. We will need the help and support of our neighbors and communities to succeed. Please, do not expect help from your local grocery stores, they will not appreciate the competition, it is bad for their business.
I will be honest, I am a Christian and I believe a certain way, and I make no apology for that, but please hear me out. The Bible says in the end days men will become lovers of themselves. Many people think this is talking about homosexuality? I beg to differ. I believe it is referring to what we see everywhere now in our society. People both men and women, becoming lovers of themselves, caring only for what is best for ME, not what is best for us as a society. People no longer care what is best for their friends, family and community. When the Walmarts and big Agribusiness started squeezing out the Mom and Pop operations we did not care what happened to them, we were saving money, and now we are seeing the real cost of our choices. When we start to care about our community, we will again start to support local small farms and local organic farming operations, and we will force Big Agribusiness out of OUR communities. But we all must think of what is best for us. We must not only want to eat healthy ourselves, but we must educate our consumers on how we can help them eat healthier also. We must quit thinking what is best for ME. Our communities used to provide local food and there is no real reason, why it could not be possible today.