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gosmith
09-25-2010, 12:01 PM
Hi all,

Another newbie to AP. I live in a rural area about 75 miles N of Seattle WA. My wife and I are avid organic gardeners and getting ready to retire in the next couple of years. We've decided to set a goal of becoming as self-sufficient as possible in both energy and food production, and it seems that AP might just fit nicely into our plans.

I've spent the last couple of weeks absorbing as much as possible from around the web, but there's still so much to learn. I'm hoping to find others delving into AP in the Pacific NW to be able to work out whatever local adaptations may be required to successfully operate a small to medium home system in this region.

I'm hoping to start soon with an barrelponics type of system with goldfish to experiment with over the next few weeks/months. My bigger plan is to design and build a 200 sq foot greenhouse and incorporate an AP system, worm bins with a rolling compost cylinder above it, and possibly a few chickens if I can work out the air filtration. Solar thermal doesn't work too well here in the winter months, so I may need to add some supplemental heat to keep it all functional. I've done a lot of experimenting with wood chip bio-char stoves and space heaters and have plans to convert an old 50 gal. gas water heater that would also allow me to add some free hot water as needed.

At any rate, it's nice to find a U.S. forum to explore and learn from. Don't have much to offer the group by way of practical AP experience yet, but if anyone has questions about making and using bio-char in organic gardening (and possibly in AP systems), I may be able to help.

gosmith (Gary)

davidstcldfl
09-25-2010, 03:32 PM
Hi Gary....welcome.... :D

Check out the map....you might find some locals.

http://aquaponicsmap.com/

gosmith
09-25-2010, 04:35 PM
Thanks David,

Gosh, no listings at all on the map for all of the Pacific NW: WA, OR, and ID. Yet I've already discovered that Oldandfound1 is from this area. (Hello Dennis.) Looks like we are true AP pioneers and could be the first in the region to eat salad made from fish poo!! :o

G

JCO
09-25-2010, 05:59 PM
Welcome to the show....pull up an easy chair, relax and stay awhile. New voices are always a welcome addition to our family..! Whatever questions you have on you mind, this is the place to get the answers. .:mrgreen:

Oldandfound1
09-26-2010, 08:14 AM
Hi Gary,
Welcome to DIY. As to the map, I registered there and was never placed. Maybe just did not make the right last click.
There may be others in the NW who just will not admit to their involvement in AP. :lol:
Our farm has been busy with a number of Fall things and with animal expansion needs. We have about 50 chickens (sell eggs), a dozen Muscovy Ducks, 3 sheep (started spinning wool), 2 goats, one gives us 3/4 gallon of milk a day (cheeses, ice cream, kifir, soap), the other is a Boar doe (breeding for meat), and a hutch full of rabbits also for meat and for sale.
We have been in our present farm location only since February 10, however we have had some of our animals now for 3 or so years.
Sounds like your around Mt. Vernon area maybe Bellingham.
Probably post up some progress photos on my build thread this week.
Glad you came up here in the NW.
Off to Church this am.
Dennis
Oldandfound1

P.S. Just went to the AP Map and find that I am there. Hmmmm

gosmith
09-26-2010, 11:58 PM
Hiya Dennis,

Thanks for the welcome and for putting WA on the map. Your farm sounds wonderful. Looking forward to some update pics on your system. Your greenhouse looks great. I'll be following your thread closely.

I've been learning a LOT from looking at the pics and descriptions that people here have posted, so a big thanks to everyone for taking the time. I hope to return the favor as I get my own systems going.

You were about right on our location. We're just about halfway between Mt. Vernon and Bellingham, a few miles from a little place called Alger. This is a beautiful area with close access to both the San Juan Islands (great fishing) and the North Cascades (great hiking and skiing). We bought these six acres as raw land about 20 years ago and have gradually been converting it into our little version of paradise.

My wife and I have been doing a lot of napkin engineering this weekend and have come up with a plan for a little greenhouse AP system that we hope to get started on in the very near future. This will be a small experimental system just to get our feet wet, so to speak, and will have the FT on top, flowing to a couple of modest GBs, draining to a pump sump. What was that weird acronym for this kind of setup? Something to do with being Constantly High In the Fish Tank and getting pissed. Must be an Aussie thing. ;)

We'll probably just start out with some goldfish as finny guinea pigs to see how it all works. I'm curious if you've found any local sources for fish stock, and if so, what you plan on raising in your AP system. I've searched a little under "pond stocking," but haven't found much that sounds promising yet. I thought yellow perch might be the way to go around here because of the temperatures, but I'm open to suggestions. Never tried catfish or even seen it in a store, that I can recall. I don't think anyone around here has ever eaten any kind of fish except salmon, steelhead, ling, and rock cod.

Oldandfound1
09-27-2010, 01:48 PM
I don't think anyone around here has ever eaten any kind of fish except salmon, steelhead, ling, and rock cod.
Hi Gary,
My brother Terry has lived in Bryant, near Arlington for 35 years. His mastery of fishing for the above named species now includes Sturgeon in shallow water estuaries around Stanwood. It would only take one of them to feed an AP system. :D
Congratulations on your dream building retirement property. I have traveled through Alger a couple of times many years ago. Like everywhere else the community has likely grown.
My Mrs. said early on, "Why don't you try out an experimental AP system"? By that time I had seen enough YouTube experiments to know that it worked. There are also some "Commercial" movies there.
An issue with potential for discouraging results in AP is going small. The delicate balance in a small cycling system is too easily imbalanced by for example an abrupt harvesting of too many plants eliminating their nitrate removal from the fish water. A rapid increase of Ammonia from the fish, their feed not being eaten. Unless the system is "indoors", over night temperature swings will stress fish, frost plants, or flood the system should it rain upon it.
I am a novice. Neither have I a cycling system, nor will I except by a tentative date of Jan 1, 2011. After beginning the build of a green house several months ago, I stumbled onto AP. My Mrs. has rightly accused me of spending too much time reading about it. AP is addictive. With this sites numerous contributors as well as the Aussie site, YouTube, studies by US State Agricultural Extension offices, University studies, information is abundant.
AP involves creating our own little almost closed Eco systems. We add fish, feed, water, electric, plumbing, pumps, some math, some construction skills, some insights in chemistry, biology, physics, commerce, seeds or transplants, often rocks, bacteria, filtration, pest control, temperature, and prayers. "what happened"? We become fish farmers.
Presently, I think that trout will be the goal in my system. I will let you explore this site located in Orting, near Puyallup. They sell products including eyed eggs, and for a dollar each, a 7-8" trout in volume. An issue I've read about gold fish is their inclination to disease carrying. Koi are a hearty breed. They are expensive.
http://www.troutlodge.com/index.cfm?pageID=4212FDFA-3048-7A03-39A58E291D56192A
I had thought about yellow perch but have learned they grow slowly. One of those nice size 12" yellow perch are 5-7 years old. I have not found any commercial source for them. While they could be locally harvested, they may be carriers of diseases from their natural environment. It is possible for commercial fish growers to overnight ship fish, much the same way we purchase chicks from the mid-West for our farm. Your AP system needs to be cycling upon their arrival.
I have bookmarked many dozens of pages with regard to the facets of AP. If you have a particular question I will try to locate an answer. Searching any of the forum pages or the main index page often will turn up answers. You may have noticed that you can subscribe to any of the build threads by participants here, and any time a new post appears notification arrives by email.
Last week my Mrs. left our camera at a daughters home at a baby shower event. I have some weeks of progress to post soon.
Best Regards,
Dennis
Oldandfound1

gosmith
09-27-2010, 02:46 PM
Ha, my wife has already given me the evil eye for how much time I'm spending on the computer reading this site and the Aussie site. My dogs stare at me longingly and when I look back they ask pleadingly: "When are we going out, Dad? Can we go now, pleeeez?!!!!" They're not used to me sitting around this much.

Thanks for your offer of assistance in answering questions. I keep coming up with them, but have had good luck with the search feature so far. I do have some questions about sizing and building bell syphons, but I'll wait till I get to that stage of the design. Too much info overload right at the moment, if you know what I mean. ;) If anyone's posted a nice schematic somewhere, that would be helpful as I sometimes have trouble following some of the written descriptions.

I do understand the limitations of a small system and will just have to hope I can balance everything long enough to be able to experiment and learn. I've already mostly completed the layout and design of my first little project, which I'm hoping to start in the next week or two. I'll start a project thread and post drawings when I get them complete.

It's a round greenhouse using a 4 inch thick cable spool side as a floor. The diameter is 98 inches. The FT is 42" in diameter and 36" high, which comes out to 216.2 gallons if it was filled to the rim. The grow bed is curved, following the outside wall about 140 degrees around the south side. Under this will be worm bins. I'll also try to work in some PVC riverbed tubes to increase the grow bed area.

I've been thinking about trout too. I have an idea for making an outdoor system along the lines of Francois design. I'd only be able to grow for part of the year, but I bet the warmth of water would extend the season on both ends. The FT would be dug into the ground and lines with a poly tarp. I have a 15,000 gal solar heated swimming pool that works this way. My wife and I hand dug it about 15 years ago and the tarps last a long time as long as none of the above water parts are exposed to sunlight. We learned that after replacing the tarp a couple of times in the first few years. We use a 30 x 40 foot tarp and the last one cost around $85. It's showing no sign of breaking down after 5 years of abuse from pool parties and grandkids. The edges are covered with cheap Home Depot carpet as a sun block.

Can't wait to see your update pics. I may want to pick your brain about your greenhouse design next spring if I can get these other projects finished and operating. Arlene wants a hen house too, so I may need a little advice from an expert on that project too. Good thing I'm getting ready to retire. I don't have time to work for a living anymore! :D

Best,

G

JCO
09-27-2010, 03:00 PM
Please pick a topic and start a new thread. This one is for saying hello...all other business needs to be handled under a proper topic with a new thread. :mrgreen:

stucco
09-27-2010, 03:43 PM
Hey! Welcome!

gosmith
09-28-2010, 03:04 PM
Thanks Stucco, glad to be on board. Your system is very impressive and it's given me some new ideas to play around with. I like your spirit of experimentation.

G

urbanfarmer
10-09-2010, 10:22 PM
I just wanted to say HELLO!

I have found this forum to be a cornucopia of knowledge. The members here are friendly and wise! Your stay will be a pleasant one, WELCOME.