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Hotrodmike
08-23-2010, 11:31 PM
I think it was Badflash who was talking about Expanded shale . I would like to try this and have talked to the Texas producer of it . They are telling me the only thing cost effective that is shipped into my area is 3/8 sized . To me this sound too small . What do the rest of you think ???
They said they can get me larger but it may not be cost effective with transport but not sure what their cost effective is to mine :? Or do I just blow this off and go with gravel even though it lighter and more pourus ? It does sound like it would be a great product for AP
Have A Kind Day
Mike

davidstcldfl
08-24-2010, 02:40 AM
Sounds small to me Mike. I'm surprised they didn't give you a price for the larger size with shipping(?)

badflash
08-24-2010, 04:07 AM
Too small. Get a shipping quote. How far are they from you?

Hotrodmike
08-24-2010, 10:03 AM
David
Being what they use this stuff (road base and cement additive ) for I am sure there shipping method is rail cars .
Bad
I think they are too big and I am too small in their view point and they are 300 or so miles away . I still am going to call her back this afternoon and see what the numbers really are . What kind of price did they give you ? Or did you get that far .

I have heard of guys using sand for media but I agree with you guys in the size and the finer it is the slower it will drain
Does anyone know offhand what the weight per cubic foot / or yard ? for Expanded shale
Have A Kind Day
Mike

Hotrodmike
08-24-2010, 01:23 PM
WOW
Ok I just got off the phone with the manufacture .
The numbers I got are not all that bad and I can get the larger 1/2 - 3/4 " stuff . He explained it was not that they did not have that size but the fact they could not always keep up with the demand on that size . They even said they could deliver :? and the cost would be under 100$ a cubic yard and thats more than rock but way less than hydrotron .
Now the problem ,,,,,,,Anyone in Texas need media ????? :D as a minimum load is 35 cubic yards :shock: Having room for that much is no problem hacking up that much money for media at one time is :?

So that leaves two options run up with my truck and get what I can get in it ,or find a company that is getting it in locally for road base and buy some from them .

We did talk about the material and the weight on the 1/2-3/4 would be 45# per cubic foot and would retain about 20% water after flooding . Even dry it will have 5-10% moisture weight
So at this point I know a lot more about exp. shale but still have no clue what I am going to do :lol:
Have A Kind Day
Mike

badflash
08-24-2010, 03:37 PM
The guy at my end of the country would sell me any amount I want, and was even going to screen & wash if for me and load my truck. I think the cost was $45 a ton. They are only 45 minutes away.

The angle I was going to try and work is to work with a local nursery/landscaper. Now I'm just going with river pebbles for $40 a yard.

Don't go with small stuff. The problem is it clogs. How you going to clean it? 3/4" is just right to not plug up.

Hotrodmike
08-24-2010, 03:46 PM
Bad they will sell me any amount I want if I pick up and they have it in stock the 43,000 # of it was if they deliver .
Some of the nursery places down here already use it for soil amendment and doing garden paths but they are the guys using 3/8 stuff
So it's a long ride or rock :D
Have A Kind Day
Mike

Brier
08-30-2010, 08:45 PM
I think the shale or even hydroton is worthwhile for me because it is ph neutral, and my water is 8.3. My available pea gravel is limestone. I am afraid that when I lower my PH for better plant growth, that it will always be an uphill battle with limestone in my grow beds. Ph is a tricky thing. I am going with expanded shale myself. Anyone have any insight?

Hotrodmike
08-30-2010, 10:17 PM
I am not sure I have insight but have been researching it for a bit and talked to manufactures a few times (so far). To be honest if you can find it in your location I really think it is the best media one could use . It has a very high surface area ,is PH neutral , holds air ,water and nutrients ,but not too much .
I did the numbers on hydrotron and it would cost me over 2000$ to do my beds and being a cheap ol goat I think I would make mine before I paid that much as I do have kilns ( wife is a glass artist ). Also I think the cost has a lot to do with it's an import and more and more is coming from China :shock:
Check to see if their is a firing plant anywhere close and if not check with some of the road contractors as they seem to be the biggest user and see if they have a source . I am still working on getting at least enough for one bed for testing to see if it's worth the problems getting it as I really can not afford 20 some tons right now . I even thought of buying a load bagging it and selling it but shipping would be the deal breaker for most
You are correct in that you do NOT want limestone or you will be chasing your PH all the time and that is mostly what you find down here Limestone!
Have A Kind Day
Mike

davidstcldfl
08-31-2010, 05:31 AM
Hi HotrodMike,
I haven't checked to see if we have some (being produced) here in central FL...(?)
I was chuckling to my self when you and Badflash were talking about the price of rocks....He's paying (I think) $45 a ton for river rock....here, it's twice that.... :roll:

One day, I was driving around, trying to find some naturally acurring rock in Fl....when I did find some, I realized I was in a "bad neighborhood".... :o :shock: :? ........ :lol:

Hotrodmike
08-31-2010, 12:29 PM
David
The price of rock has a lot to do with transport not really the price of rock it self .
The kind of ROCK you found might make the plants grow funny and the fish would just want more and more and more :lol: :lol: :lol:
Have A Kind Day
Mike

badflash
08-31-2010, 04:33 PM
Florida is mostly marl, or aragonite. It adds too much calcium and raises pH to around 8, so not a good choice for AP. The cost of rock here was $45 a yard. That is just about 2400# give or take.

Best bet is something that doesn't effect the pH like granite or quartzite. That is what most rounded river pebbles are.

Brier
08-31-2010, 06:58 PM
Florida is mostly marl, or aragonite. It adds too much calcium and raises pH to around 8, so not a good choice for AP. The cost of rock here was $45 a yard. That is just about 2400# give or take.

Best bet is something that doesn't effect the pH like granite or quartzite. That is what most rounded river pebbles are.

Not here, or in most of the midwest. Our rounded river pebbles tend to be limestone. Must be nice to live in an area, where you could just collect some decent media. Because of our limestone, our local streams and rivers run very similar to my tap water. Tap water 8.3 Local waterways 8.0. I have actually tested them, because of my interest in native US fish. I wanted to know if I was shocking my wild collected specimens by dropping them in my tap water.

Hotrodmike
08-31-2010, 08:51 PM
Matt
This was the closest manufacture I could find .
As small as them states are up there :D it's prob. closer than my supplier in TX
http://www.hpbhaydite.com/
Bad
I thought of granite as we have a quarry about 25 miles from here and I use decomposed granite for my road base but all I have ever seen come out of that place was slab or the decomposed ,which it way too fine , dusty and packs like cement . So I guess you can have the right kind of rock close ,but not in the right packaging :(
Have A Kind Day
Mike

urbanfarmer
10-09-2010, 09:37 PM
The guys in Hawai'i have the best locally available media, and I hear it's really cheap! They call it cinder, it's basically lava rock without the dye and in the case of the lava rock I buy here, it's also REAL lava rock!


Hi HotrodMike,
I haven't checked to see if we have some (being produced) here in central FL...(?) Did you find any, sir?