PDA

View Full Version : Biomass Water Heater



petercaine
08-11-2010, 06:15 PM
Has anyone ever tried using something like the compost shower http://www.ecofilms.com.au/2010/06/21/how-to-make-a-compost-hot-water-shower/ to heat a fish tank through winter.
I imagine there would be some kind of continuous flow and the water in the pipe would never mix with the fish water, just that the heated water pipe would coil through an insulated (cob?) fish tank.
Would there be enough heat to maintain water temps through a british winter in a portacabin - so not totally exposed to the elements, just using this kind of set up.
am loath to use a water heater, but would like to try some warm water fish.

cheers

badflash
08-11-2010, 06:19 PM
It is possible, but for a big fish tank there are issues. You can't put the pile indoors or in a greenhouse due to off-gassing. You'd also need a huge pile, not just a little one like that. You'd have to constantly fuel it too.

rfeiller
10-13-2010, 11:30 AM
I read about a Canadian greenhouse project where the area under the shelf was a large bin. The bin was loaded and emptied from the outside. The makeup air was from the outside and the gasses were vented to the outside. Takes a large amount of organics. This system is not connected to the water supply. If you pipe the heat away from the compost or composting will cease.
the temperature was a constant 70 degrees.

urbanfarmer
10-16-2010, 03:26 PM
I read about a Canadian greenhouse project where the area under the shelf was a large bin. The bin was loaded and emptied from the outside. The makeup air was from the outside and the gasses were vented to the outside. Takes a large amount of organics. This system is not connected to the water supply. If you pipe the heat away from the compost or composting will cease.
the temperature was a constant 70 degrees.
That's pretty amazing. I am going to try it on a small scale here in FL. Because I know worm bins produce heat, every time I go to mess with mine the first thing I do is stick my hand in the middle of the bin. It is always quite warm to the touch. I can imagine if I made a really large pile, just how warm it would be during the winter compared to the outside.

Brier
10-16-2010, 04:49 PM
In your worm bin, there is very little composting taking place, or else it would be a fairly sterile environment, and certainly devoid of worms. The heat produced from a proper compost pile is 140 to 150 degrees. This will kill worms. You are likely only seeing solar gain, or a low temp(non optimal) compost. Now think of the potential with 150 degrees. Problems are constant feeding of the pile, aeration, and the fact that removing heat via a hydronic system, will snowball, and slow the composting, and the heat produced. So, though this is a great technology, it is far from low maintenance.

urbanfarmer
10-16-2010, 10:55 PM
Well, this is something I have done since I have been keeping worm bins indoors in A/C. The middle of the compost pile is noticeably warmer. It's like running your hand in very warm water, you know it's a lot warmer, but it's not scolding hot. I would guestimate it at about 95 degrees Fahrenheit with an ambient indoor temperature of 75. We are talking about things on a very small scale, and I don't have the background in Biology to even guess at the implications of implementing this design. I think experimental observations may be required :ugeek:

Although I will say this, with a very large system it is clearly possible. However, the feasibility of maintaining such a large system may not be possible, but that would obviously depend on your situation.

davidstcldfl
10-17-2010, 04:42 AM
but that would obviously depend on your situation.

.....and whether your neighbors are wanting to see a big steaming pile of POOH in your back yard... :shock: :lol:

Brier
10-17-2010, 08:05 AM
Well, this is something I have done since I have been keeping worm bins indoors in A/C. The middle of the compost pile is noticeably warmer. It's like running your hand in very warm water, you know it's a lot warmer, but it's not scolding hot. I would guestimate it at about 95 degrees Fahrenheit with an ambient indoor temperature of 75. We are talking about things on a very small scale, and I don't have the background in Biology to even guess at the implications of implementing this design. I think experimental observations may be required :ugeek:

Although I will say this, with a very large system it is clearly possible. However, the feasibility of maintaining such a large system may not be possible, but that would obviously depend on your situation.

Believe you me, you would not want a hot compost going inside! Every time I turn the piles on my leased cattle ground, My glasses fog up, and the heat about knocks me down, and I am sitting on a tractor moving it with a bucket. Then there is also a bit of smell. :D
If you are zoned agricultural, your neighbors might not say a thing. If you are zoned residential, you will probably have a fight on your hands.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is a great way to heat a greenhouse, just wanted to point out that it is a much bigger undertaking than one might initially think. Look up greenhouse heating calculators. You will be amazed at how many BTU's are required to heat a small greenhouse. Though in Florida, this will be much less than in Ohio. Here it would cost as much to heat my 12 x 24 greenhouse, as it would my home. That's why we are heating both with wood.

rfeiller
10-17-2010, 09:37 AM
this biomas greenhouse heating experiment was done by a university in canada, it maintained the heat in the green house in the 70 degree range in winter. i realize this forum has members from diverse backgrounds and the idea might work for some of us at some point. certainly not in my home in a subdivision in ca.
i wish i could find the article it was several years ago that i found it on the web, when i built my greenhouse and my electric bill went through the roof, but i couldn't impliment the system. my green house has been an orchid house.
now i'm trying to figure out how to heat the 1000gal vat i just built in it for aquaponics. 70-75 degrees, if anyone has a ideas would be greatly appreciated. i looking at lenses, solar water systems, can't burn wood in my area, bad air days which happen anytime it is cold. i am considering hydronics putting a circulating pump on the water heater and running a loop through a makeshift radiator. i know the cost of submerseable electric heaters would kill me.

rich

rfeiller
10-17-2010, 09:43 AM
brier,
i know what you mean about the heat, i have turned my compost pile in the back yard in the evening when the center was glowing embers. i use to have a lab mix that took his job seriously about making compost. boy he could heat that pile up. sure miss that dog. :)

Brier
10-17-2010, 01:07 PM
I am building a hydronic heat system that heats my greenhouse right now. I have the benefit of having a wood burning furnace that I am installing custom made heat coils into the firebox which will heat the fish tanks, as well as the air in the greenhouse via radiators. I am certain that coils within a compost pile would work very well for heating the fish tank water in a greenhouse. The main problem to contend with beyond the composting itself is finding a fish safe coil. The system would be much more efficient if the actual tank water flowed through the coils(heat exchanger) than with a closed system with two heat exchangers. Copper is your best bet, but there is the toxicity issue. Stainless would be ideal, but is very expensive, and difficult to bend. If you did a closed system, it could eliminate the toxicity problems, but would take a much larger pile to create the desired temps. I wonder about Badflash's idea, the Babington burner. Could you use this as a waste oil burner inside of a drum, or woodstove, with some stainless steel coils? The intense heat would require a shorter tube length than a compost pile, and make it doable. With enough water as thermal mass, this may only need to be fired a few times a day to achieve an adequate temp. http://www.hilkoil.com/product.htm I am using two coils similar to the largest one pictured on this page, but they are both quite a bit larger than this. Each one has nearly 14 feet of tubing inside the firebox. I am running an open system with the actual tank water going through the stainless coils, supplying the radiators, and when the temp drops too much in the fish tanks, a solenoid valve will divert flow directly into the tanks until the thermostat is satisfied.

urbanfarmer
10-17-2010, 11:46 PM
How about heating a metal tank from underneath that is part of your system. The water just dumps into that, acquires some heat, and moves on. The water could be heated just before it gets to the fish, but just after it gets filtered through everything else.

Scupper
11-04-2010, 07:40 PM
Brier,
I'm read your post about heating your greenhouse and tank water using a wood furnace. That interests me a great deal as I am building a greenhouse for an AP system in WA state and have an ample supply of firewood. I looked at the website you recomended for heating coils in the fire box. It seems like a great idea. Does the water flow from the FT to the heating coils and back to the FT? Do you have any pictures of your system and/or wood furnace? Also how large an AP system are you heating?

Does anyone else have experience heating with wood?

Thanks,

Scupper

dennis
12-30-2010, 10:57 AM
just to add to the discussion, i did toss the idea as there is a local dary that used to give away tons of cow poop free to gardeners here, consider a heat sink the large amount of poop will produce not only hear but i have been reading about producing methane, there are some low cost systems in use in places like the philippines, this solves the issue of smell and you produce gas to run burners or a generator, once the manure is finished you can bag and sell the composted manure, with a heat sink ( dry mass of dirt) the dirt will slowly release the heat on cold days and help in heating at least? just some ideas, i think i recall reading some people from japan were doing stuff like this in Fla in the 70's
if i ever get to build in Philippines i will do the methane if i ever have a lagre supply of poop, i hear chickens make's the best methane production, but then i hate the mass raising of chickens and prfeer free range so there goes the poop lol

dennis
12-30-2010, 11:08 AM
Scupper look into thermal mass wood heating or russian stoves , i may get the numbers wrong but a thermal mas or russian stove seems to be the best method to extrace heat from wood, from my understanding it is a narrow long fire box at the top it narrows down and a second chamber opens up where more outside air is brought in, when the lower fire gets hot enough the smoke ( unburned gas) ignites or burns something like 2000 degrees i think they say the efficiency is something like 90 percent WAY above any other type of wood burning and produces very very little smoke ( clean air for the neighbors ), used in houses they use masonary i think at least 2 tons. fire this thing up once per day and it releases heat for 24 hours, you could use dirt for thermal mass but the dirt has to be kept dry, i think this would work very good in cold climat . but then there are those that use the smoke from a low temp burn to run car motors which can run generators ???lol

badflash
12-30-2010, 01:15 PM
We actually have a section of the forum for that. See SHCS...How It's Done..! (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?51-SHCS-How-It-s-Done-!)

dennis
12-30-2010, 06:12 PM
ah ok sorry just learning my way around here

Bryancute
02-28-2012, 08:50 PM
Biomass could also be used as a more efficient water heater, simply by using the same method of heating the air.

zenel
04-23-2012, 10:49 PM
Hello...I had heard a lot about biomass water heater and i am here looking for reviews about biomass water heater.