Trying to feed the people.

[Gherty]

Some of you may know the issues with water delivery in Central , California. This has menat up to 80% unemployment in some cities. Food banks can not keep up and government help... well you know about that one. I am one of the lucky farmers who has water and along with a few others want to help those who had helped us for years and now are out of a job.

My contribution is a 96' * 30' green house that I am not using right now. Would like to creat an aquaponics system and grow fish and veggies. My thinking is Basil, Tarragon, Persian Cucumbers, Tomatoes and Egg plants. If anyone has the designs for the size I need or any suggestions please send it our way. We are a bunch of morons when it comes to Aquaponics thingi )) :shock:
Thank you
Michael

[JCO]

Welcome to the show....pull up an easy chair, relax and stay awhile. New voices are always a welcome addition to our family..! Whatever questions you have on you mind, please standby, the answers will be forth coming. :mrgreen:

[Gherty]

TY JC. I hope to get this thing going before the winter months.

[davidstcldfl]

Hi Gherty... :D

That's very cool to be doing that.

[Gherty]

ty for the kind words. I am just sad to see how many dealers of this technology are there to rip people off.
Being a farmer I know what a pump costs. When I look at the equipment they want to sell and charge 4 times what it should be... well thats when I get mad.

[stucco]

Welcome gherty! Good luck with your system. Are you thinking media based flood and drain or u.v.i style raft system? Power consumption is something to consider as well as the cost of pumps, beds, rocks, stands and a whole list of other things that are jacked up 4 times the price of what they should be. It takes a lot of basil and tomatoes to break even. :mrgreen:

[Gherty]

Not sure what the heck we endup doing. But will lok into advise from a couple of univercities. talked to portablefarms guy, he thinks he is kind to everyone by selling them eqipment. And his pricing does not include $95 per call if I need support after sale. Oh 3 phone calls are ok though...!!!

Not sure what this people think, but I can tell you I am tired of looking at TV and seeing the adds that fight hunger in Africa, when all they have to do is visit the farm lands of california these days.

Cmon boys and girls, put your caps on bsckwards and lets get to work. need your help here. Any design help?

[jackalope]

Welcome to the forum Gherty, glad you're aboard! What you're proposing is a great venture, and I hope it works! I'm going to try to put someone in touch with you about this .... one question .... what kind of fish are you going to use? The reason I ask is that if you don't live South of the Techapis, California won't let you use Tilapia in your aquaponics from the last info they sent me.

[Emmett]

I would look at pictures posted of some of the bigger systems and get ideas from those. Most of the "How To" is right there.

A lot of people here are fond of the rubbermaid feeding troughs and above ground pools seem to work well. I would see what you have available locally and start with that.

One other thought, I've read a lot here on the forums that Aquaponics is modular. Maybe start with one system a quarter of your greenhouse and then just replicate it once you get some experience. That way you get started and can ramp up as you go. You appear to be anxious about getting going but a bit system may take as much time to get going as slowly ramping up. Actually even a quarter of your greenhouse is huge compared to any system I might make.

[Gherty]

Jack: I am trying to talk the Merced County officials of the Fish and Game into working with us. Since this is totaly closed loop, I am hoping they would see the light, otherwise I will break the law and go to jail for trying to feed those who need it...what can I say gov by the people for the people, right?

Emm, good idea, but I am trying to see if economy of scales works for us. We will be paying out of our pockets for this and it is not tax deductable either. so trying to make sure I can still afford it next year. Your idea is a good one though, may try the small version first. Reason for my attempts to get going quick is the great need I see around me.

Looked at a lot of the pictures and have already a manual for a system. It is from NCSU web site. trying to trouble shoot potential problems right now.

[JCO]

Why not set up a Non-profit corp to put it all under, then you could write off all donations you make (out of pocket expense) along with being able to apply for grants for non-profit organizations from the city, county, state, Fed and private institutions...just a thought :mrgreen:

[Gherty]

In the past we have tried to work with local govs for different things like loans and so on, let me just say, you will not find one farmer who wants to have anything to do with either the farm agency or the other offices. It will take so long to play their games that we will end up looking like the goverment boys ourselves.

[jackalope]

Jack: I am trying to talk the Merced County officials of the Fish and Game into working with us. Since this is totaly closed loop, I am hoping they would see the light, otherwise I will break the law and go to jail for trying to feed those who need it...what can I say gov by the people for the people, right?

I'm not too sure about wanting to go to jail for this ..... but to each his own!

I would PM one of our members here (Paul Trudeau) for more info on California's laws, he lives in the Sacramento area and is able to go directly to the F&G meetings as well as the other meetings that affect tilapia and aquaponics. In the interim, you might consider a different fish that may be legal in your part of the state - cold water fish may be a 1.5 to 2 year growout - but they do have their advantages ..... no heaters! Think about that before you get a huge fine, possibly losing your entire GH business and maybe some jail time. ( The gov's love to abscond/steal/confiscate businesses of people who challenge their authority (lawbreakers) :!:

What you might propose to the local F&G is a pilot program under their auspices in the upper counties (Merced, preferably) under their watchful eye to help provide for the food banks ... you might also try to get the USDA involved as well to possibly sway those in power (state F&G) to see it your way ..... after all, you're doing this at your own expense and it will benefit both the F&G and USDA to be seen in a good light as "partners" in this pilot project!

Here's a couple of other ideas -

Here in Montana, I was about to be busted for having Tilapia in this state .... I went to the lawbooks (I have a set of my own that the county school district was throwing out!), and looked up the law for myself. I found the out I needed- Tropical fish in aquariums are exempted from the F&G's authority, and a Tilapia are first an tropical aquarium fish (we used to grow them years ago in Utah as "African Mouthbrooders" when they were known as Saratherodon - i.e Cichlids) and lastly as a sportfish or food fish. So, I sent them a copy of the law that said they have no jurisdiction over my Tilapia since they are grown in aquariums and are indeed a tropical fish - they require heated water - and I haven't heard form the Montana FWP since! I only challenge them when I find that their "interpretation" of the law is at odds with the law itself - this has stood me in good stead several times in several states ;) Most of these 'gods in uniforms' have no idea of the actual law, they only bluster their way through what their superiors tell them the law says!

I would think that you might make a good case for the law being discriminatory .... only those who live in the part of the state which will support Tilapia year round are allowed to raise them (maybe outdoors?). Yours would require heated water during the colder months to survive, (To my knowledge, no tilapia can survive water colder than 48f. and that would be O. Aureus, which are illegal in California), therefore, they would be of less danger to the environment should one or two escape than if the same thing happened South of the Techahapis ;) ..... yours will be enclosed within a secured building, as opposed to outside pools/ponds where a bird might pick up a fish and fly 200 yards away and drop the fish into public waters (one of the brilliant excuses from the Montana F&G :? :? ). Other's here may be able to give you some more ideas on how to convince these 'gods in uniform' of the error of their ways, but once these people are given power, they are very reluctant to give it up :!:

Try to get some support from your state senators and representatives, especially noting your philanthropic venture as the main objective, and/or how the F&G is taking authority away from the elected representatives and giving it to themselves by superceeding the laws of regulating invasive non-native fish with their 'administrative rules' which are keeping the Tilapia in the part of the state where they would be most hazardous to the ecological environment! ( I consider this to being administrative idiocy!) You'll have to look this up in the original laws and see if they were ever given the authority to decide these things or not - a little legwork can go a long way. Most county seat courthouses will have a law library, and it's open to the public, in most cases - usually there will be someone there who has a general knowledge of how the law library works and can steer you to the appropriate indexes for the code/revised statutes. etc.

Just my 2 centavos .....
and a few ideas to hopefully help keep you out of jail :mrgreen: :mrgreen: