View Full Version : Barrelponic School System
GreenPhoenix
05-11-2010, 08:57 AM
So as a high school teacher I have always had an interest in projects that can help lead my students to learn something new, and hopefully even interest them to the level that they WANT to learn more on their own... To that end, this year I decided that I was going to involve my extra-curricular club in a little project called "Barrel-ponics". They had no idea what they were in for! We were able to "free-source" most of the materials (It is amazing what people will donate to a school!!!), and we bought the rest for a total investment of about $250 (which the school generously footed).
I don't have any pictures of us building the setup, these are as it stands today. There is a bit more work that we are going to do - namely adding a second Bell Siphon to a growbed and building a solid framework to hang our grow lights from. But we have plants (Basil and Strawberry) and a few goldfish. Soon to have some Tilapia (thanks Badflash).
http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af324/GreenPhoenix_album/main-sys2.jpg
http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af324/GreenPhoenix_album/flow-sys2.jpg
http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af324/GreenPhoenix_album/growbed1.jpg
Our school year ends here in about 3 weeks, so I think that I am going to be managing the system over the summer, but I hope to get a full greenhouse for the kids over the summer and find a way to either move this system outside, or build some new ones out there and keep this as an indoor display system...
Either way, I think I have my kids hooked and since they are finishing their freshman year now, I will have them in this program for at least a few more years. Two of them are already talking to their parents about building systems in their backyards over the summer! I think that it is safe to say that they have been bitten by the bug.
Phoenix
wolfracer
05-11-2010, 01:46 PM
Very nice! I am glad to see this as part of the classroom. Keep up the good work.
davidstcldfl
05-11-2010, 02:18 PM
Very nice.... :)
You sound like a very dedicated teacher and the students are lucky to have you and in this day and time if you can touch and inspire the mind of even one child then you can consider yourself a success. :mrgreen:
REEFBUG
05-12-2010, 10:40 AM
Hi Phoenix, system is looking good. Great job, I am glad to see a teacher that cares enough to show kids how something works and put in the effort for something they can touch and really see what's going on and end up with "fruit" of their labors. (pun intended).
Keep it up.
GreenPhoenix
05-12-2010, 11:38 AM
Ok so I have my first problem (I think) with this system..... Today we finished installing the second bell siphon (works great!), but one of my kids noticed something in one of the growbeds....
Specifically it was in the growbed that is NOT directly under the light. It seems like a thin filamentous white fuzz that is growing between the hydroton balls..... I have had water running through this bed for almost a month now and nothing. But this has now appeared less than 48 hours after I planted some dormant strawberry roots.
Any ideas?
Phoenix
badflash
05-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Might be mold or fungus of some type.
jackalope
05-12-2010, 07:52 PM
Ok so I have my first problem (I think) with this system..... Today we finished installing the second bell siphon (works great!), but one of my kids noticed something in one of the growbeds....
Specifically it was in the growbed that is NOT directly under the light. It seems like a thin filamentous white fuzz that is growing between the hydroton balls..... I have had water running through this bed for almost a month now and nothing. But this has now appeared less than 48 hours after I planted some dormant strawberry roots.
Any ideas?
Phoenix
I think badflash is right ..... I'd dig down a ways into the bed and see if'n it is doing the same down below ..... possibly becuz you've been trickling water instead of F&D .... I'd check and see if'n the bell siphon is working correctly ..... if you've trickled water in or if it was filling to a different level each fill, it's possible that it may have allowed some mold spores to take hold without being washed away by one of the higher fills ...... if you find more mold/fungus down below where it is appearing, I'd empty the whole thing, put the clay balls in hot chlorinated water to kill the mold, let it dry out completely (maybe in an oven in the Home Ec room), then put it back in the barrel/GB after you install the other bell siphon .... Just my 2 centavos
GreenPhoenix
05-13-2010, 07:28 AM
Ok, that sounds like a whole lotta work.... Looks like I know what I might be doing this weekend.... Is there any way that I can treat the bed, without having to remove all the grow media? I don't have access to a large oven or anything to dry out the media, though I think that I can get a large tub to soak them using chlorinated water...
Here is a pic of what I have growing.... It is only in a few spots, but it seems worst near some of the strawberry roots that I added a few days ago.... I never saw any sign of this stuff until 24 hours AFTER I put in the strawberry roots... Could the spores come from them?
http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af324/GreenPhoenix_album/Fungus.jpg
Please tell me what ya'll think this is... Also, thanks for the supportive comments about teaching and such. They mean a great deal.
Phoenix
jackalope
05-13-2010, 08:04 AM
Ok, that sounds like a whole lotta work.... Looks like I know what I might be doing this weekend.... Is there any way that I can treat the bed, without having to remove all the grow media? I don't have access to a large oven or anything to dry out the media, though I think that I can get a large tub to soak them using chlorinated water...
Unless there is a safe way of diverting the chlorinated water from dropping into the FT, I don't know how else you would do it. As far as the oven, that was just an extra precaution that might be possible if you had access to one ..... probably not absolutely necessary .... my wife says that everything I do is 'Overkill.'
Here is a pic of what I have growing.... It is only in a few spots, but it seems worst near some of the strawberry roots that I added a few days ago.... I never saw any sign of this stuff until 24 hours AFTER I put in the strawberry roots... Could the spores come from them?
Sounds possible to me I think you're on the right track ;)
Please tell me what ya'll think this is... Also, thanks for the supportive comments about teaching and such. They mean a great deal.
I wish more teachers would take as much interest in teaching like you do, rather than worrying about whether kids are eating candy, whether kids are wearing American Flag T-shirts, or whether kids are taking down foreign flags that have been placed above the US flag (breach of flag protocol).
Phoenix
This is just a harmless type of what my grandmother called spider web mold. Spray it down real good with the hose (if not chlorinated), let it drain and dry real good and it will go away. It is just feeding on matter probably introduced from the roots of the Strawberries and is a natural action that takes place when the spores are present and there is moisture and something for them to feed on. Wash them out with the hose. :mrgreen:
GreenPhoenix
05-13-2010, 08:30 AM
JCO --- so it is really harmless? I don't need to wash everything out and such? That would make my life during finals SOOOOOOOOOO much easier!
Phoenix
Molds and bacteria of all kinds live in the soil and help break down all sorts of matter turning it into soil. If you hose down the media real good, you will not only wash away the mold but also that which the mold has been living on.
I was raised on my grandparent's farm and as nasty as it may sound, my grandmother never allowed me to wear shoes during the summertime because they had little money and could only afford one pair of shoes per year for me to wear to school...SSSOOOOOooooooo, imagine if you will...walking out into the barn lot to feed the horses, cows, chickens and pigs in your bare feet and then ask yourself how many germs were present in every step I took. :shock: :o
I've never really had a sick day in my life except for childhood measles and mumps...as an adult...only an occasional cold, of course I have had a few heart attacks and surgeries in the last few years but I don't think you can contribute that to my grandparents barn lot.
Ain't nothing like accidentally stepping in a piping hot, fresh cow patty with your bare feet....it oozzies up between your toes so warm... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: OK now that I've grossed everyone out....know this...what I have said is no joke, it's how poor folks grew up in the 40s & 50s when I was a kid. :mrgreen:
GreenPhoenix
05-13-2010, 09:09 AM
JCO -- no worries. I totally understand the need to actually INTERACT with germs in order to have a good immune system. While I think I am a "bit" younger than you (actually I am only 32), I grew up with no antibiotics or antiseptics, I ate dirt and played in the local drainage ditches... I too only have the occasional cold these days and I usually only take my sick days as "mental health" days. Now that I am raising my son - I am treating him the same way - he HAS to be exposed to germs and such in order to develop his immunities.
More that I meant about "it is ok to just wash it down" was in regards to the plants.... I am relatively experienced in raising fish and such, but VERY inexperienced in raising plants... I just wanted to make sure that the fungus wouldn't kill my plants...
Phoenix
AAAHHHhhhh...so, your trying to make me feel old...HUH? Well, I guess I am getting there as I will be 67 in July, but since I plan on living to be at least 100, I guess I am still relatively young comparatively. 8-)
As for the mold, was any of it actually growing on the plants or just the media? You can always use a gentle spray from time to time on the plants to help remove dust and pollutants that settle on their leaves but as far as it hurting the plants, normally that kind of mold only attacks dead and decaying materials. :mrgreen:
GreenPhoenix
05-13-2010, 09:40 AM
haha... not trying to make you feel old... just more info about me...
No, none of the mold was growing directly on the plants... just on the media surrounding them.... and nothing at all in the other growbed with the other plants....
If I wanted to spray with something as a preventative.... What would you recommend considering that this is AP and we can't use traditional antifungals....?
Phoenix
Plain chlorinated water...! Fish are very picky about their water :mrgreen:
REEFBUG
05-13-2010, 11:23 AM
Plain chlorinated water...! Fish are very picky about their water :mrgreen:
WAIT, don't you mean DE chlorinated water???? :o
Yep, that's what happens when you get old, but guess what, your memory isn't the only thing that goes arye :mrgreen:
GreenPhoenix
05-17-2010, 06:20 PM
Ok .... so time to update. I rearranged the one light that I have on the system to shine over the GB with the the strawberries. Hopefully this extra light will coax them out of dormancy and get them to start sprouting.... We shall see! Everything else seems to be growing fine, maybe a bit starved for nutrients - but I went and bought some Maxi-crop today and I will start using it as a foliar spray until my little fish get a bit bigger... Speaking of my fishies.... My tilapia arrived today from Badflash (THANKS!!!) They seemed to be adjusting nicely to their new home... We shall see how they do in the coming days. I might have been a little premature in getting them, but I really wanted to get some fish in the system before the kids left for the summer (only 1.5 weeks left!!!!)
So far my ammonia is effectively at 0; so are my nitrites and it seems that my nitrate test kit has disappeared... (Silly students...) Maybe that is a good thing, maybe not... We shall see... I hope my fishies will be ok... If not I guess that I will be doing some water changes...
Phoenix
GreenPhoenix
05-24-2010, 01:38 PM
OK, time for another update... The kids are taking their finals this week, so I am now stuck with the duty of maintaining the system for the summer until we resume classes again in the fall... Well it should at least allow me the time to tinker with a few things and see if I can increase efficiency.
Now, on to the system... I have now had my Mossies in there for about a week and they are doing great! No deaths and they are all eating REALLY WELL and swimming all over the place. I feed about three times a day and add a pinch of duckweed when I leave in the afternoon to tide them through the night... Originally I thought that they might be a bit small for the duckweed, but the first bit i put in disappeared in about 15 minutes... So I am feeding a bit more during regular feedings and adding the duckweed as a supplement overnight...
My plants are doing OK, the basil is growing (like a weed!) I have had to cut back all of the plants, but instead of harvesting the leaves, I decided to place them back into the system and try to root them for more plants. That was about 5 days ago... I checked this morning and it seems that three of the cuttings have already put out new roots and one (that I started about 10 days ago) has taken off with its' new root system... The cucumber plants that I added two weeks ago are starting to sprout new growth and seem to be doing OK... The problem is the strawberries... They have not put up any new growth, in fact they have not done ANYTHING to make me thing that they are actually alive... I guess that is what I get for buying from the 90% off rack at the nursery... But then again - for $0.75 - how could I pass up the chance for 10 strawberry plants?
I think that I will bring my jalapeno pepper plant from my home NFT system and a few of the herbs as well. They would probably love the empty grow-bed that I have in the school system... I am also going to bring the other light up and install it finally. I will try to take some pictures in the next couple of days, but with finals and graduation commencement and everything else - pics might be a ways away.
Phoenix
badflash
05-24-2010, 04:02 PM
Those little guys eat & poop non-stop. From the sounds of things the system is properly cycled. At this age you can get one of those automatic fish feeders for the weekends. They have a battery and will feed them 2X a day.
Test the water for nitrates. That is one key to plant growth. Once the nitrates get up a bit the plants may take off, then there will be a battle as the plants drag them down and slow their growth.
If the plant look a little yellow, get some greensand and add it to the growbed. This adds iron and trace minerals slowly & safely. Small amounts of bllodmeal works too- but don't over do or the water goes bad.
GreenPhoenix
05-28-2010, 01:14 PM
So today when I was checking my system I noticed that several of my Basil plants looked "chewed"..... I couldn't figure it out - initially I thought that maybe some of the kids had been a bit "overzealous" when they were taking cuttings and chopped some leaves.... Then I noticed what looked like caterpiller droppings.... And the more I looked as the leaves on the Basil, it did look like the result of a caterpiller..... But where from? My entire system is indoors and has never been exposed to the outside environment!
Well low and behold, look what I found.....
http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af324/GreenPhoenix_album/invader.jpg
After taking this pic, we (he and I) decided that he looked a bit parched and that it was time for him to learn how to swim.... So off he went to the tilapia tank.... But the damage has been done... Look at the remains of one of my Basil plants... this is only one of several that was eaten badly...
http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af324/GreenPhoenix_album/Invader-damage.jpg
Only thing that I can think of, is that somehow he hitched a ride on one of my cucumber plants that I added a week ago.... But he must have been an egg, because I fully checked (I thought!!) each plant for aphids, and other crawlies before adding them into the GBs.... Oh well... he is fish food now!
Phoenix
GreenPhoenix
01-24-2011, 02:32 PM
So it has been a long time since I have updated this thread.... Time to remedy that!
Since the start of this school year, I have had a change in my plans with this system. Originally we were trying to raise Tilapia - mainly because they were relatively cheap, and very hardy. (I wanted a fish that would be hard for my students to kill.) Also they reproduce easily and have a rapid growth rate --- all great things when dealing with students...
The problem was that the building I am in is solid concrete AND my room does not have heaters... So it seems that year round (in North Texas) my water temps are around 75 degrees F. That is not great for Tilapia -- the few that I did have survive the cold were growing at less than a snails's pace... So we needed a new fish!
After several calls and conversations, I managed to find a supplier for Rainbow Trout who would be willing to give me a few fish for my class. My most heartfelt thanks go out to Marvin Emerson of Crystal Lake Fisheries.... He was EXTREMELY generous to me and was willing to donate 75 trout to me for this project. Now that is wonderful, but as it turns out - he was much more generous than I had originally thought... These were not fingerlings of a few inches... These were stockers ready to be placed into fishing lakes --- these fish are already plate sized. Even though I have managed to increase the size of my fish tank from 40 gal up to 150 gal..... (I need a few more growbeds now...) I only have room for about 25 fish.
I managed to bring 24 fish into the school (one went straight home for dinner after taking a tour of the back seat of my SUV) and I have only had one fish die since I added them into the system. He dressed out at almost 1.75 lbs..... Here are a few pictures that I took this morning.
http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m542/acohen2010/IMG_20110124_150819.jpg
http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m542/acohen2010/IMG_20110124_150834.jpg
I put the 2-litre soda bottle in for some scale...
http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m542/acohen2010/IMG_20110124_150906.jpg
Now I just need to get the new towers online, the framework for the new full spectrum lighting system and then we need to work on designing an automatic fish feeder and a biofilter to help with the waste-load... I don't have enough room to add enough new growbeds... I am hoping to be able to have some HUGE fish and nice produce to present the Head of School with at the end of the year -- hopefully that will actually give me a budget to work with next year and I won't have to pay for this all out of my own pocket!
Laters for now, Green Phoenix
Everything looks great. So how often does one of those whales jump out into the backseat of your SUV? :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:
urbanfarmer
01-24-2011, 08:24 PM
If you need any help designing let me know! I love thinking these kinds of things through! :ugeek:
Hea there,
The Trout are looking great.......
glad to see that ya got them in ok, and they are doing good..........
RS
davidstcldfl
01-26-2011, 11:33 AM
Wow, that's really nice they donated the trout... :)
GreenPhoenix
01-29-2011, 08:46 AM
So another quick update... The trout have been in their new home now for 10 days. The have been doing great - all things considered. I managed to bring 25 fish into the system and I have only lost two. Though to tell the truth, I think that I am going to harvest / cull the largest trout out of the system early next week so I can get some better numbers to show my school. After all, the whole point of this system is to prove to my school that this is worthy of some major funding and attention. Hopefully I can present the Headmaster a large trout (2.5lbs+) and a basket of produce toward the end of the school year and ask for a bit more space and such for next year!
Now to the nuts and bolts... When I got these trout, I knew I was going to overload my system and be out of balance. I mean I have a 150gal fish tank with approx 30lbs+ of fish and only about 50 gal of growbed... So one of the first things that I did was to figure out how to convert my little "sump" tank into a full-fledged biofilter. What I decided to do was use the plans that others posted here on how to make a swirl filter -- I would change the inflow into the sump, add some eggcrate and some scrub pads and then I would leave about 2 inches of water at the top so I can grow duckweed as well.
That was my project for last week. I completed it on Thursday. What I found amazing was that on Tuesday morning my ammonia was at almost 6ppm !!!!!!!!! I was freaking out! The system is in a prep room for one of our science labs, and the genius that designed it did notput a floor drain in... So unless I wanted to shuttle 5-gal buckets across the room, I had nop way to do a water change.... So I decided to fully top off the system (about 50gal) in the attempt to dilute the ammonia and cross my fingers to hope for the best... Needless to say, I have been motivated to get that filter built... Now skip forward to Friday morning -- I tested my ammonia and when I saw the result, tested a second time, and then a third! As of Friday morning (YESTERDAY) my ammonia was reading at between 0.25 and 0.5 ppm. Of course my nitrites are spiking, but I can obviously see that the cycle is working!
Now the system has been running well for over a year, but even still this was a huge spike.... I still have my fingers crossed, but I am breathing a bit easier. Projects for next week involve FINALLY putting up a framework to hang some growlights. (Though after following the lighting thread, I think I am simply going to re-purpose a few of the 4' fluorescent ballasts that I have in my garage - just need to go to Home Depot and get some daylight bulbs.) The other project is to add some additional growbed in the form of vertical towers for strawberries and a few other climbing vine plants.
I will make sure to take some pictures of the next projects. I will also start making my updates on a more frequent basis... I need to train myself to write things down more! :)
Green Phoenix
I for one, think you are doing a terrific job and that school is very fortunate to have a teacher as dedicated as yourself. Keep the pics and updates coming and if you have any questions about anything, ask away. Someone on here will have the answer for you. :mrgreen:
urbanfarmer
01-30-2011, 01:33 AM
Keep up the good work! We need more folks like you! :mrgreen:
Projects for next week involve FINALLY putting up a framework to hang some growlights. (Though after following the lighting thread, I think I am simply going to re-purpose a few of the 4' fluorescent ballasts that I have in my garage - just need to go to Home Depot and get some daylight bulbs.)
Don't waste money on the grow lights. The regular ones for $1 a bulb work just fine. Basically, whatever the highest wattage your ballast can take should be your guide. Get the cheapest and most powerful bulb that you can find for that price. For 40 Watts at my local store, that's about $1 a bulb. If you want to SEE for yourself, buy 1 type of each bulb you are considering. You can then purchase a SIMPLE device that allows you to SEE the strength and color of the spectrum the light produces. Read up on chlorophyll if you aren't already familiar and then make your own judgment. You will most likely conclude that there just isn't much of a difference between the $1 bulb and the $100 bulb...
Fun and nifty device (might also be good for the kids to see)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015T7JH2/
Just some food for thought, but you will see those new fancy LED grow lights adding UV, infrared (IR), and other strange color LED lights because supposedly the plants need a tiny bit of this to grow properly. Well, get a regular incandescent and use the device above. You will see it has the entire spectrum; no weird gaps like the fluorescent bulbs. That is why I like to throw one into my indoor lighting mix. The problem of course is the electric cost, but right now I am using one for the old lady's indoor herb garden. Strangely, it seems to have made the plants grow faster, but this is not objective and could be coincidence or something else.
GreenPhoenix
01-30-2011, 09:12 AM
Urban - I already have two 150watt Hydro grow-lights that were donated. I was going to use those, but I think the fluorescent will actually illuminate a greater area. So I will probably use them instead... That way, the really nice Hydro lights can find their way into the riverbed system that I am designing for my garage!
Thankfully this system is located in my school, so electric costs are of a lesser concern right now. When I set up my home system - that will be a different situation.
JCO -- thanks for the kudos, my friend. I am simply doing what I can to teach what I can to my students. Hopefully they will get something out of it...
Green Phoenix
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