WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE..?

[JCO]

OK, badflash, jackalope, davidstcldfl, stucco and all the rest of you....anybody...you should all be able to catch the glitch in the video below...If their system is truly set up the way the girl explains it and the way it appears.....who will be the first one to tell me what's wrong with their system and why it won't work the way aquaponics is suppose to work..? :mrgreen:

[video:36n4m7cx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSTYgpHZ3wQ[/video:36n4m7cx]

[jackalope]

The sound is so echo-y that I couldn't understand half of what she said (she's got ugly hair, by the way), but I think that she said that the sump takes out the ammonia and the nitrites and nitrates .... seems bass-ackards to me, I thought the plants used the nitrates after the ammonia was converted to nitrites and the nitrites were converted to nitrates which, I would assume would happen in the grow-bed (I didn't see a bio-filter), and not the sump, which is pumped directly back into the FT. It's terrible to be almost deaf (I threw away the hearing aids), but it's even worse when the room echoes like that. So, if my wife is correct about my hearing, the girl said something completely, totally opposite from what I heard and I missed the mark by a long shot, but I do that a lot ...... !!

[stucco]

Red fraggel said, “the water goes from the beds to the bio filter where… once a week we transfer Nitrites, nitrates and ammonia as well as iron”. What a boot the rest of the week?

[davidstcldfl]

I'm tired this morning, worked about 14 hrs yesterday trying to change out an AC system , with the air handler in the *%^_("! attic. Just finished my first cup of coffee....

I'm with Jackalope, I'm about 1/2 deaf...the echo didn't help or the pitch of her voice. The hair and the thumb ring were a distraction too. (I must be getting old)

I heard her say, they had a 'bio-log in the sump'....doesn't the bio- just change ammonia into one of the N's, not both ? (never remember which one comes first) @ 1:27 mins
-I didn't see any air lines going into the sump, I would of added some.

Stucco, I thought she said they 'test once a week' for ammonia, nitrates,ect (?) @ 3:08 mins

-She mentioned the 7 or 8 fish were small/tiny...wouldn't think they would get much nutrients from that (?)
-The bottle of stuff she held up....is it safe for fish ?.....too tired to research it.
-The thing I did notice, from a construction view point is.....they laid the concrete blocks on their 'sides'. This greatly reduces their ability to carry a load.

[stucco]

Hadn't had my coffee this am when I was listening to 'red fraggle' - worked a long day yesterday too, but I'm with you David- I don't think she has got enough fish for any great growth on that many seedlings. In addition, since they are combining the sump and bio-filter, it doesn't seem like they have enough biological filtration in that little bag (looks like less than 1 cubic ft of bioballs) to substantiate coversion of nutients for the growth they are trying to acheive, but then again- she doesn't have many fish...;) Good thing she is not growing anything that requires a huge amunt of calcium or potassium beacause she didn't mention adding any of these elements- only iron.

[davidstcldfl]

http://www.advancednutrients.com/landin ... nding.html (http://www.advancednutrients.com/landing_pages/revive_landing.html)

Not sure, but I didn't see a slo-drain in the FT, going to the seperator tank. Looked like a pipe going straight, from one to the other (?)

Should have it, to get (more) solids off the bottom.

[JCO]

I keep waiting for Badflash to chime in before I explain what the debacle is with their set up...where are you badflash? I know all of you are on the edge of your chairs...right?:mrgreen:

[badflash]

7 fish won't produce enough poop to do, excuse the expression, shit. With 7 fish you don't need a clarifier or anything else unless these folks are WAY overfeeding. The system has way too little growbed for a real system. Looks to me like this is a hydroponic system in aquaponics clothing.

If you want to use a raft system you must remove the solids. That is incredibly wasteful. Put the solids through gravel growbeds with red worms fill & drain. What comes out you can use in a raft system.

In a 100 gallon system you need about 50 fish to provide the nutirented needed for a good growth of plants. That is not to say some greensand or blood meal is needed to suppliment iron, but it is a good start.

[JCO]

OK, here's what I saw and I looked at this video quite a few times to make sure I understood as much as possible of what I was seeing. Just mentioning here where they fell short in what they had and how it should have been in a true aquaponics system. First off:-

1) Not enough fish. Duh!
2) The "Clarifier" as she called it is actually the sump (that's where the poo and other physical materials collect for removal.)
3) No slow drain in the FT going to the sump (clarifier) to remove the solids from the bottom of the FT
4) Not nearly enough grow bed
5) No mention of the addition of minerals etc.

And finally, the thing that most of you mentioned something about but never hit real hard:-

6) The bio-filter "as she describes it", where the ammonia is turned to nitrites and the nitrites are turned to nitrates (as she describes) is fed by the grow beds. What's up with that? The bio-filter should be between the sump (clarifier) and the grow beds, otherwise all the nitrates are returned to the FT and your plants are not going to be able to remove them before the water is returned to the FT.


And you're right Jackalope, she does have ugly hair (thinks she black or wishes she was)! A little lighter fluid and a match could "CLARIFY" that right up.
Oh yes David, there was an air manifold up at the head of the GBs by the FT.

They had a total of 4 students working on this project and apparently none of them did their homework before setting up the system. It's sad that Universities have the money to spend on such projects but don't do their research to determine if what they are teaching the students is factual and correct. They have left it to the students in a hit or miss situation in hopes they just might figure it out themselves.

OK, so did I miss anything? :mrgreen:

[davidstcldfl]

2) The "Clarifier" as she called it is actually the sump (that's where the poo and other physical materials collect for removal.)
"?"....you lost me on that one.
The sump is where the pump is. (PIST)
Most people refrain from 'pumping' solids. In gravel GB's, it would be OK. Even then, you increase the chance, your pump 'might 'plug.
But with NFT, DWC, towers, or continous flow, like my set up, I wouldn't want to be pumping solids. It breaks them up, then it's even harder to remove. One would be trying to remove them 'first'.


5) No mention of the addition of minerals etc.
She shows the bottle of 'REVIVE', which she says they test once a week for iron, ect. I gave a link to Revive in an earlier post.....they say...
This product contains a full spectrum of chelated nutrients as well as five of the most important macro and micro nutrients.
Nitrogen (N), Calcium (Ca), Mg (Magnesium), Zinc (Zn),Boron (B)
At least they are trying to add a little help.


Oh yes David, there was an air manifold up at the head of the GBs by the FT.
I saw the manifold....one line to the FT...the rest appear to be going to the GB's. None to the sump, where I thought they should have some.
They have a bio-filter in there, it should have some extra air.



The bio-filter "as she describes it", where the ammonia is turned to nitrites and the nitrites are turned to nitrates (as she describes) is fed by the grow beds. What's up with that? The bio-filter should be between the sump (clarifier) and the grow beds, otherwise all the nitrates are returned to the FT and your plants are not going to be able to remove them before the water is returned to the FT.

Good point, it would make sense to have it 'first'.

Both my bio-filters are 'after' the GB's.....they drain right into my sump. For me, it was the easiest set up.
I hope the nitrates 'wave' to the fish as they travel back to the GB's .... :D
My primary concern is, getting rid of the ammonia, before it returns to the FT.

[JCO]

"?"....you lost me on that one.
The sump is where the pump is. (PIST)
Most people refrain from 'pumping' solids. In gravel GB's, it would be OK. Even then, you increase the chance, your pump 'might 'plug.
But with NFT, DWC, towers, or continous flow, like my set up, I wouldn't want to be pumping solids. It breaks them up, then it's even harder to remove. One would be trying to remove them 'first'.


Preferably..the sump is called a sump because it catches all the goop (poo) etc. in their case, it is the clarafier as they called it.
http://diyaquaponics.com/images/sump.gif Once the goop has been removed after having transversed the sump slowly enough to allow all particles that will, to drop to the bottom to be flushed out from the bottom as she shows in the video when describing the clarifier.

Once the goop is removed, then is when the water should go to the bio-filter to make all the changes to the nitrites etc. and that's where I have always placed my pump...to pump the water to the GB.

According to how the system is set up, how many pumps you are using, where the FT is located, above - below - same lever as Sump (clarifier) - GB - bio-filter.

There are so many ways to set up a system, but all the components regardless of whether they are above, below or same level as the GB....they have to follow in a manner that allows for the water to flow from the fish to the sump, then the bio-filter and from there to the GB and then back to the fish clean of goop and clear of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

[davidstcldfl]

Your right JCO....there are many ways to set up a system. Also your right about the 'bio' . It should be before the plants.

In your drawing ( nice drawing by the way)....there is a pump on the leaving side. That would make it a 'sump'.

Take away the pump in your drawing....turn the 90 upside down. The water can flow without being pumped.
Infact, the pipe can go all the way to the ground/floor travel across it....to the GB's. The pipe can turn up and still carry water to the height of the beds, as long as it's lower then the height of the water in the clarafier.
I believe that's how their set up is.

Here you see the exit pipe of my clarafier, comming out the side of the tank. It travels down to and across the ground. Then turns up and into the GB without being pumped. The pipe (on the ground)keeps going to another GB and to the duckweed tank.
The water level in the clarafier, is at the upper line on the outside.
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad157/davidstcldfl/pic021910_1.jpg

[badflash]

Plants can metabilize ammonia and urea, so for the plan't sake, it doesn't matter. The best of both worlds is a gravel bed F/D feeding a FT for stuff like lettuse. The gravel bed IS the biofilter. My system uses an aquacube in with the fish for bio-conversion. That way a pump failure, or excessive harvesting doesn't upset the apple cart bio-wise. The air and pump are on separate circuits just in case.