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PaulTrudeau
02-06-2010, 07:05 PM
Hi all,

I went to the monthly state Fish & Game Commission meeting last week to inquire as to their attitude toward backyard aquaponics. They pointed me to the state director of fisheries, who spoke with me during a break. He says they are aware of the growing number of people interested in aquaponics and will review how or whether it fits into their current fish and game regulations. They'll present their findings to the Commission in a month or two and will keep me posted.

Paul

badflash
02-06-2010, 08:29 PM
My understanding of the current regulation is that internal recirculation for personal (non-commercial) use is not regulated unless specifically prohibited. O. mossambica is not restricted, but most other species of tilapia are.

PaulTrudeau
02-07-2010, 12:00 AM
Thanks for the reply, Badflash. I've read some of the reg's and other Dept. of Fish & Game materials, and I've spoken with a few different DFG staff in recent months. Some sources support your interpretation, but I've found the information from the various different sources to be inconsistent. I'm hoping we'll get some more clarity in coming months.

dufflight
02-07-2010, 12:12 AM
I think a problem with Dept's and councils is once you ask them they tend to find a reason to regulate. And in turn generate a revenue from.

stucco
02-07-2010, 05:00 AM
We spoke to the division of aquaculture here in Florida. Those folks were interested in different types of fin and shell fish for use in home recirculating systems, but even they have to ask the good old boys down at the Florida wildlife commission. The point is that the F.W.C doesn’t have the time or money to check up on a bunch of small time operations. They want to keep it down to a few large operations they can check up on, or take collection from. Pay for permit, jump through hoops, pay to keep the permit and then it’s not worth it.

PaulTrudeau
02-07-2010, 06:57 AM
I share folks' hesitation about approaching the authorities directly, but I guess I'd like there to be a way for home aquaponics to be legal here if possible. In any event, I get the impression DFG has been aware of aquaponics and has been in the process of taking a look at how their regs do or should apply to the practice, whether or not any of us ask them to do so. It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

badflash
02-07-2010, 08:05 AM
You can't sell tilapia for bait anywhere in california except the Salton Sea. I guess that makes sense. nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=3253

Below is the governing document.
State of California - The Resources Agency
DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME
RESTRICTED SPECIES LAWS AND REGULATIONS
IMPORTATION, TRANSPORTATION AND POSSESSION OF WILD ANIMALS - MANUAL 671
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1518.pdf is the current regulation sited for tilapia.
671. Importation, Transportation and Possession of
Live Restricted Animals.
1. Tilapia sparrmani (Banded tilapia) (D).
2. Tilapia zilli (Redbelly tilapia) (D), except permits may
be issued to a person or agency for importation, transportation,
or possession in the counties of San
Bernardino, Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San
Diego, and Imperial.
3. Tilapia aurea (Blue tilapia) (D).
4. Tilapia nilotica (Nile tilapia) (D).

O. mossambica is not on the list and so is legal unless there is some local regulation against it.

Hybrids like Rocky Mountain White would be declared illegal after some investigation as they are a cross between two restricted species.

urbanrunoff
02-07-2010, 08:40 AM
time to cut their budget :lol:
if they have time to worry about what little geeks like me do in their backyard ,then they are clearly overstaffed and a budget cut should be in order.

jackalope
02-07-2010, 09:16 AM
California is going through a budget crisis right now, and threatening to go bankrupt ..... but they still enforce their stupid illegal regulations ..... why do I say illegal? Because their constitution says the same as everyone else's, ONLY Congress (legislature) shall make the laws ....... but the population (including the legislators, judges, and liars/lawyers) has become so dumbed down concerning the state and federal constitutions, that the legislatures allow these departments to make the "laws" which they call rules, and then let them enforce their own rules as if they were law ...... stupid ..... and totally unconstitutional!

PaulTrudeau
02-07-2010, 11:59 AM
Badflash, I agree with your reading of the regs, but not everyone I've spoken with at DFG does. It's a little disconcerting how different the interpretations are that one gets from gov.t staff depending on who you talk to.

badflash
02-07-2010, 12:18 PM
Force them to cite chapter & verse. Put up or shut up. They are there to enforce the rules, not make them up or twist them to their liking.

PaulTrudeau
02-28-2010, 06:45 AM
FYI one of the California DFG staff I've talked to told me they are having a big internal meeting around the end of March regarding raising tilapia at home, and to check in with her at the beginning of April. She says there are many people like me (us) with an interest in the outcome...

kyledwards
07-06-2010, 08:08 PM
I'm with Ernie on this one. I'd love to have tilapia in a small aquaponics setup in my backyard!

Any news?

rfeiller
11-29-2010, 08:41 PM
what ever happened this thread?

TerryC.
03-07-2011, 06:30 PM
The admin part of fish and game are idiots for the most part. When a new rule comes out file a FOIA request asking for the specific legislation that allows them to regulate this particular activity Aquaponics... and the specific species. Also ask them what forms, permits, etc. are required. Bury them in paperwork. Send a FOIA request every two days asking something new... Send the request registered return receipt. Get your friends to file request as well. Ask for biological reports. Ask when the public hearing for the new rules was and if none occured, request a public hearing near your location. There are certain procedures that have to be followed. CC your request to your assemblyman and State Senator. Stir the pot and waste as much of there time as possible...It works...

rfeiller
03-07-2011, 07:34 PM
fed, state and local "regs or laws" are intentionally ambiguious to allow the "law" to enforce restrictions and fines as they deem convenient for their purposes. it doesn't matter if it is for my commercial regs for truck and trailers, as a general contractor, or whether it deals with the fish and game; it just doesn't matter it is the same crap.

badflash
03-07-2011, 08:30 PM
Tilapia infest most of the tributaries of the Salton Sea. Catch your own and keep your mouth shut. Tell people you are raising African Cichlids. It is the truth.

jackalope
03-09-2011, 11:39 PM
Force them to cite chapter & verse. Put up or shut up. They are there to enforce the rules, not make them up or twist them to their liking.

That's what I did in Montana, and I won, they backed off and I've never heard from them since. Get the law, print it out, and wait for them to show up, but wait with a video camera in your hand .... They hate being photographed when they try to break/make up state laws ..... then call the cops for them to be arrested for breaking the law 'under color of law' etc. etc. Like Terry C. says, bury them (and the local cops too, if necessary) in paperwork! They hate the idea of one of their slaves knowing what the law actually says! It's been my experience that most of the F&G (FWP here) drones don't actually know what the law says, they just take their superior's word for what the law says ..... it's worked for me many times, and not just with the F&G drones but with most state employees! Remember, they work for you, they aren't your Master. And, if you are filming, make sure that you let them know what constitutional errors they are making (like being secure in your home; life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness; anything else you can include! If you can make a Federal case out of it, they may back off faster!

jackalope
03-09-2011, 11:51 PM
Tilapia infest most of the tributaries of the Salton Sea. Catch your own and keep your mouth shut. Tell people you are raising African Cichlids. It is the truth.

Good point :!: Most of them wouldn't know one Cichlid from another, and I would think that there is an exemption in the law somewheres that states that if you're raising tropical fish (Tilapia are a tropical fish) in your home or office, it's not under the F&G's jurisdiction. I used to buy Mossies in Salt Lake City 30 years ago, that were sold as "African Mouthbrooders" - just another tropical African Cichlid and then someone let the cat out of the bag and the drones found out that they were also a food fish that they could tax, permit and license <|:^(

tem1160
03-10-2011, 05:39 PM
In Texas possession is not the big problem transporting them is the big fine. The law reads something about the fish must be gutted before transportation. This is to stop the spread of certain vegetation that is more invasive than the fish. It's a pretty good fine here so you might want to keep the bucket you transport them in hidden.. :D

rfeiller
03-11-2011, 09:56 PM
there are only three fish that i am aware of that the state of ca will really come down on someone for: piranah, snakeheads, and red arowanas. you can go to any cichlid club and probably find what you want in cichlids. if you make a commercial business out of it you will probably enter into a personal relantionship with the fish and game, but if you are quiet they will never know. ;)

PaulTrudeau
11-07-2014, 10:31 AM
As you know, aquaponics has all sorts of potential to benefit society and our environment. At the same time, the practice of aquaponics has the potential to contribute to the risk of fish disease and proliferation of invasive species that may threaten commercial aquaculture and natural resources. In California, the state Department of Fish and Wildlife (CDFW) is considering how to minimize those risks while promoting the beneficial aspects of aquaponics. One aspect of that effort involves developing appropriate regulations for the practice of aquaponics. A group of aquaponics practitioners, state agency personnel, and academic personnel, together comprising the Aquaponics Subcommittee (APS) of the Aquaculture Development Committee (ADC) that advises the CDFW’s Aquaculture Coordinator, has come up with an initial proposal for regulation of aquaponics in California. The ADC wants input on the proposal from the aquaponics community between now and their next meeting on January 8, 2015, at which time they plan to discuss the proposal and any input received. A number of members of the aquaponics community, including myself, have volunteered to solicit input from aquaponics folks.

The initial proposal is posted at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OvMb8gpp62IMFuLGHFzPObse4PBUqIcv6eLPxrhp6Fc/edit?usp=sharing. However, I think a discussion of terminology is necessary before you read it. The proposal makes a significant distinction between aquaponics operations that sell fish and those that do not. Unfortunately, the proposal uses the terms “commercial” and “non-commercial” to describe those two different categories, which is potentially confusing because an aquaponics operation that sells only vegetables and does not sell fish would be categorized as non-commercial in this context, even though in any other context, it would be considered commercial. So, I have taken the liberty of inserting the alternate terms “fish-selling” and “non-fish-selling” into the text of the proposal below.

Similarly, at one point the proposal describes an aquaponics operation that “produces” fish. “Produces” could be interpreted to mean a breeding operation to produce fry/fingerlings/juveniles, but according to the APS member who submitted the proposal, that is not the intended meaning. As such, I have taken the liberty of inserting the alternate term “utilizes,” which is more accurate.

PLEASE READ AND THINK ABOUT THE PROPOSAL AND SUBMIT YOUR COMMENTS BY DECEMBER 31, 2014. You can submit your comments by posting a reply on this forum, or you can send comments directly to me at joezbro@gmail.com. I will forward all comments received by December 31 to the APS prior to their January 8 meeting. Feel free to contact me with any questions as well.

Paul

Paul Trudeau
Southside Aquaponic Farm
Sacramento
916-533-5268 mobile

PS: If you are a member of a local group on this forum, please notify your group members of this issue and direct them to the discussion posted here, as opposed to re-posting this announcement or the proposal in your own local group - I think it will be less confusing to have this single central thread where people comment. Thank you.

Roger L.
11-07-2014, 10:50 AM
The government already has enough laws limiting businesses and should not pick on one segment of business separately. As far as an individual's hobby, the government has absolutely no business butting in as long as no laws are being violated. Tell California to try to balance a budget before creating anything else to do. That last statement goes for all states as well as the federal government too.

urbanfarmer
11-07-2014, 02:03 PM
As you know, aquaponics has all sorts of potential to benefit society and our environment. At the same time, the practice of aquaponics has the potential to contribute to the risk of fish disease and proliferation of invasive species that may threaten commercial aquaculture and natural resources. In California, the state Department of Fish and Wildlife (CDFW) is considering how to minimize those risks while promoting the beneficial aspects of aquaponics. One aspect of that effort involves developing appropriate regulations for the practice of aquaponics. A group of aquaponics practitioners, state agency personnel, and academic personnel, together comprising the Aquaponics Subcommittee (APS) of the Aquaculture Development Committee (ADC) that advises the CDFW’s Aquaculture Coordinator, has come up with an initial proposal for regulation of aquaponics in California. The ADC wants input on the proposal from the aquaponics community between now and their next meeting on January 8, 2015, at which time they plan to discuss the proposal and any input received. A number of members of the aquaponics community, including myself, have volunteered to solicit input from aquaponics folks.

The initial proposal is posted at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OvMb8gpp62IMFuLGHFzPObse4PBUqIcv6eLPxrhp6Fc/edit?usp=sharing. However, I think a discussion of terminology is necessary before you read it. The proposal makes a significant distinction between aquaponics operations that sell fish and those that do not. Unfortunately, the proposal uses the terms “commercial” and “non-commercial” to describe those two different categories, which is potentially confusing because an aquaponics operation that sells only vegetables and does not sell fish would be categorized as non-commercial in this context, even though in any other context, it would be considered commercial. So, I have taken the liberty of inserting the alternate terms “fish-selling” and “non-fish-selling” into the text of the proposal below.

Similarly, at one point the proposal describes an aquaponics operation that “produces” fish. “Produces” could be interpreted to mean a breeding operation to produce fry/fingerlings/juveniles, but according to the APS member who submitted the proposal, that is not the intended meaning. As such, I have taken the liberty of inserting the alternate term “utilizes,” which is more accurate.

PLEASE READ AND THINK ABOUT THE PROPOSAL AND SUBMIT YOUR COMMENTS BY DECEMBER 31, 2014. You can submit your comments by posting a reply on this forum, or you can send comments directly to me at joezbro@gmail.com. I will forward all comments received by December 31 to the APS prior to their January 8 meeting. Feel free to contact me with any questions as well.

Paul

Paul Trudeau
Southside Aquaponic Farm
Sacramento
916-533-5268 mobile

PS: If you are a member of a local group on this forum, please notify your group members of this issue and direct them to the discussion posted here, as opposed to re-posting this announcement or the proposal in your own local group - I think it will be less confusing to have this single central thread where people comment. Thank you.
WOW! I wonder why is this happening? :shock:


"A group of aquaponics practitioners, state agency personnel, and academic personnel, together comprising the Aquaponics Subcommittee (APS) of the Aquaculture Development Committee (ADC) that advises the CDFW’s Aquaculture Coordinator, has come up with an initial proposal for regulation of aquaponics in California."

??????????????????????????????? TRAITORS???? :lol:

topz
11-09-2014, 07:50 AM
There are so many reasons I miss California. Regulations and taxes are not on my list.

As for traitors probably not. More like an attempt to steer a train away from a cliff.

Roger L.
11-09-2014, 09:21 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but one more comment and I get off my soapbox. Topz they are the engineers who have steered the train in that direction in the first place. I believe this last election proved the people have had it with big government. California being the biggest short of the Feds. "Back off" has been said, the next will be a call to action if the governments don't pay attention.

topz
11-10-2014, 06:11 AM
Roger I whole heartedly agree the last election proved we were all tired. Hopefully it carries forward to the next election and beyond.

PaulTrudeau
11-14-2014, 06:15 AM
There is now a specific online site for submitting comments on the California aquaponics regulation proposal:

http://www.caaquaculture.org/2014/11/12/input-requested-aquaculture-development-committee-addresses-aquaponicsaquaculture-development-committee-addresses-aquaponics/

Paul

JCO
11-14-2014, 08:04 AM
As for what I think, this is what I submitted to the Calif. nair-do-wells who are screwing with something they know nothing about and that needs to be left alone. :mrgreen:


I was introduced to Aquaponics in 1967 by a friend who is now passed and I have been actively involved in Aquaponics ever since. I also own and operate one of the first and largest Aquaponic websites on the internet with members from all over the world. What Aquaponics means to the people all over the world including Americans is the freedom to raise our own food without interferrence from anyone, government included.

As for invasive spices, the tropical frish trade has for about 75 to 100 years brought all kinds of aquatics into America from all ove the world, fish, crayfish, shrimp and on and on. If you had regulated that trade in the past, there wouldn't be a problem now.

Florida probably has the largest number of non-native spices present in our waterways than any other state including Calif. but suddenly Calif wants to regulate the practice of Aquaponics because we use fish to provide the nutrients to feed our plants.

Aquaponic operations which sell fish either wholesale or retail should not be regulated anymore than those individuals who have Hybrid Striped Bass or Catfish aquacullture farms raising millions of fish to be sold consumed by the American public.

Keep your hands and idiot ideas off Aquaponics and leave us alone.

Aloha Don
12-19-2014, 10:23 AM
JCO - did you get any response from them? lol

JCO
12-19-2014, 03:25 PM
No I didn't and I hope I didn't upset Paul...I like him, he's a great addition to the forum :mrgreen:

PaulTrudeau
01-05-2015, 08:58 PM
Thanks for your kind words, JCO. I particularly appreciate the gesture knowing our perspectives on things have typically been extremely different.

JCO
01-06-2015, 07:10 AM
You are quiet welcome Paul and keep up the vigilance. How are things shaping up on the subject in CA? :mrgreen:

PaulTrudeau
01-12-2015, 06:08 PM
FYI, I understand that a number of key people were unable to attend the State of California Aquaculture Development Committee meeting last week, so the aquaponics regulation issue was tabled to next meeting, which I think will be in a few months.

JCO
01-12-2015, 08:03 PM
Please be sure to keep us abreast of the issue. I am currently working on a article about Florida's regs which effect Aquapoics. :mrgreen: