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stucco
01-17-2010, 04:00 PM
Iím considering making a mash with a food processor of bsfl, duckweed, lettuce, hemp and flax seeds, and anything I can think of. After making the mash Iím thinking of rolling it out and putting it in a food dehydrator. My hope is that it will break up into nice little pieces for the fish. Has anyone tried anything like this?

badflash
01-17-2010, 04:38 PM
Yes. I used to make snail cookies like that. You'll probably need a binder like soy flour to hold it together.

stucco
01-17-2010, 04:53 PM
A snail cookie with garlic and butter sounds good! Thanks for the binder idea I hadnít thought of that. Lately Iíve been feeding the fish dick van Pattonís organic cat food. The fish love it, but it gets the water a bit greasy.

badflash
01-17-2010, 04:59 PM
Keep the fat content low if you can. Tilapia don't do well with it and it does muck up the works.

Target is 30% protien, 5% fat and the rest carbos.

mike
01-26-2011, 05:50 PM
We make a floating feed from a blocker. The key is fermenting the mix with EM and molasses -it makes air bubbles and floats the feed!
http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/slide1.jpg
Follow the formula for starters and vary with substitutions after adjusting with excel spreadsheet analysis
http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/slide2.jpg

badflash
01-26-2011, 06:24 PM
Cool idea. Been thinking of trying this with spent grain. Do you sell thatnifty plug device, or are you will to post a DIY on how you make it?

urbanfarmer
01-26-2011, 09:57 PM
Cool idea. Been thinking of trying this with spent grain. Do you sell thatnifty plug device, or are you will to post a DIY on how you make it?
I 2nd that motion!

stucco
01-27-2011, 03:57 AM
+1

mike
01-28-2011, 01:40 PM
You guys seem sharp enough to be able to follow the pictures! :)
http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed10.jpg
The hardest part is finding a spring that fits AROUND the metal shaft.
An aluminum shaft can be obtained at a glass supply or a metal shaft
in the isles of a big box hardware store. The shaft fits around the threaded rod.
PVC dimensions must fit inside each other. 3/4" cap inside 1 1/4" pipe work for us.

http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed22.jpg
Also you have to fill the inner PVC cap with polyester body filler and drill through
the center so that it is solid.


http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed23.jpg
Make the handle nice and smooth with countersunk nut.



http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed100.jpg
Many variations can be tried, just keep the feed moist when "charging"
the blocker and ferment two weeks.



http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed11.jpg
The EM1 (Effective Microorganismsģ) and molasses are key for making it a floating feed.
Dry to 10%-20% moisture over two week period, the beneficial microbes boost usable protien
and nutrient assimilation.


http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed18.jpg
MADE IN THE USA
A complete build out from off the shelf parts.
Note modification: added elbow for easy grip handle!



http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed17.jpg
So easy even ski instructors can do it!
Made off the shelf parts and a few hours at Home Depot.



http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed12.jpg
The technique is from the nursery where we use square blocks to maximize space and minimize
transplant shock. And no disposable plastic!



http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed13.jpg
We now also manufacture horticultural square blockers in the Philippines for our farmers.
The ones made of zinc alloy in the UK are available at Peaceful Valley online.
http://www.groworganic.com/growing-supplies/seed-starting/soil-blocker.html


http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed14.jpg
One size fits in the next.



http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed15.jpg
Use them for soil blocks and fish feed!


http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/feed33.jpg
Use them for soil blocks and fish feed!

JCO
01-28-2011, 02:06 PM
Mike, I for one am glad you decided to join our forum. We need more thinkers and doers such as yourself. Please keep your innovations and posts coming. They are great :mrgreen:

dufflight
01-28-2011, 02:12 PM
I use soil blocks all the time, mainly with worm castings. Never thought of making fish feed blocks. :shock: Going to have to give that a try.

I've been looking into attracting insects for feeding the fish. Keeps them away from my plants. If you are using a blender then insects could be added to the mix. Its easier to set up a light trap that collects the insects in water. A swirl filter also seems like a good place to have a light source over. Does not effect the fish and is easier to keep an eye on.

urbanfarmer
01-28-2011, 11:54 PM
Very nice invention! Thank you for sharing!


I use soil blocks all the time, mainly with worm castings. Never thought of making fish feed blocks. :shock: Going to have to give that a try.

I've been looking into attracting insects for feeding the fish. Keeps them away from my plants. If you are using a blender then insects could be added to the mix. Its easier to set up a light trap that collects the insects in water. A swirl filter also seems like a good place to have a light source over. Does not effect the fish and is easier to keep an eye on.
I have seen people use a bug zapper with the bottom removed hanging over the FT. Obviously, there may be some hidden dangers therein...

dufflight
01-29-2011, 01:44 AM
I was giving my chooks some old weetabix. They didn't seem that interested in them so I gave some to the catfish and silvers. They took to them really fast. one weetabix didn't get a foot under the surface before it was smashed to bits and eaten. :shock:

davidstcldfl
01-29-2011, 03:43 AM
I was giving my chooks some old weetabix. They didn't seem that interested in them so I gave some to the catfish and silvers. They took to them really fast. one weetabix didn't get a foot under the surface before it was smashed to bits and eaten. :shock:
:lol: ....Duff, since the previous posts were talking about bugs........ I googled, to see what a weetabix BUG looked like.... :o

:lol: ...it's breakfast cereal...... :lol: :D :roll:

stucco
01-29-2011, 06:01 AM
:lol:

stucco
01-29-2011, 07:20 PM
We have tried a couple of different varieties of homemade food. Grown BSFL and even fed earthworm. Have spent many hours researching pelletizers and trying to find a local mill who could be used-Never thought to use a soil blocker. So I give you a hearty Thumbs Up on this one. I would like to try it- in my own way, but I have a couple of questions.
I am very familiar with composting though I have never tried the Bokashi sytle- more of a ferment- however, I am keen on making kimchi and have been working on some other lacto fermented products on which to use my abundance of veggies. I am curious what kind of EM you use of if you have some suggestions. I know of a couple of providers from which I could order a mother culture from which you can make individual batches of activated culture which is then diluted.
As far as the other ingredients go,
I gotta admit- I have no idea what tiki tiki is- can you clue me in?
copra meal (coconut meat) is not an easily acquired product here Ė at least at a low cost- what do you suggest as a replacement? I am curious if there would be a way to incorporate some of the veg meal that is left over in the garden to replace this?
Fish meal, Lime, minerals, charcoal, molasses.
Fish Silage- Could this be a vegetable or grain? The protein will be less but it might be more easily accessed in hard times.
Basically- mix it all up compress into blocks and allow to ferment as it dries. Do you place in any specific temperature or humidity- or leave open to the air?
Again- thank you for your insight.

dufflight
01-29-2011, 08:09 PM
Remember that eggs can be added to the mash to help keep it together. Omega 3 and protein are found in chooks eggs and they can help convert your wast plant material from the AP system.

stucco
01-30-2011, 05:55 AM
We do not currently have any chickens - though momma has that in the works.. she is insistent that we get them soon- our goal to be as self sufficient as possible. The boys got rabbits for christmas- they will be our breeding stock- 2m Flemish giants,2f new zealand- for a cross meat rabbit- the first kits should be here around august of this year. they have been eating all the garden leftovers- which has been great- I bought a bag of feed - but they took to the garden veggies like champs -so they get that and ample hay and seem to be loving life. and what great manure... ;) When we finally do get our chickens - i know momma will have a use for every one of those eggs!!! :D
As far as a binder- my sons and I have gluten allergies and momma is used to cooking with weird combinations of flours to obtain satisfactory bread products- her choice for a binder is flax meal- which many vegetarians use as a great omega source- she has on occasion used chia (as in the toy Chia pet) as well which has a great nutrient profile.

mike
02-01-2011, 02:05 PM
Stucco-

Step 1 - Download my book on EM applications at http://www.lulu.com/mik
That will answer the EM1 issue. Basically these microbes are powerful agents in nutrition enhancement and quality preservation.

http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/fish_feed_drying.jpg
The blocks can be fermented in an air tight bucket for 2 weeks and then sun dried. However we usually just rack them under the green house for 2 weeks (they still ferment in the core!) and sun dry. They float!


http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/fish_feed.jpg
Note white molds are beneficial so do not fear ;)

Step 2- Down load my attached EXCEL
Make an EXCEL spread sheet to formulate your own feed
I've attached it for you below, sorry, you have to convert to Imperial if you no like metric! :? Enter what you have and put zero under what you do not have. Enter the price also and you will see what the cost per pound/kilo is as well as crude protein [CP]. Then tweek it till your CP is what you want by adjusting the weight of your inputs.

http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/azola_drying.jpg
Azolla meal production, dripping rack 1 day, drying rack 2-4 days depending on sun. Never direct sun as you loose some of the essential oils and lessen some vitamins and nutrients.

http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/herb_dryer.jpg
Herb dryer-black surface creates heat, herbs dry through passive solar heat in shade

copra meal: 20%+ [CP]- high protein dried coconut meat that is left over after oil extraction
Tiki Tiki- rice bran (sub with GMO free wheat bran)
BSF Larvae: 40%++ [CP]
NO CORN OR SOY as it is mostly GMO world wide :o
FFA-Fish Amino Acid-Fish Silage See my book Appendix 4(?) for making your own

My goal is mercury free, GMO free, Soy Free feed ingredients, so you guys in the USA should be flexible and target the CP as a primary goal. Don't worry if your ingredients vary, just try to get the quality you can afford.

http://www.alohahouse.org/web_images/alga_plate1.jpg
Remember, in a large stable system you can rely on the phytoplankton like algae, zooplankton, floating feed plants like duckweed and azolla and insect eggs as well as fresh water snails and shell creatures to balance out your feed. These are what we call free choice feeds and your fish will balance the irregularities in your GOM-free-all-natural-on-site-formulated-feeds. Tweek it as you go based on your DETAILED NOTES! :ugeek:

mike
02-01-2011, 02:07 PM
Spread sheet xls not allowed, any other ways?

JCO
02-01-2011, 02:12 PM
Send the XL spreadsheet to me via email at admin@diyaquaponics.com and I'll see to it that it gets out :mrgreen:

dufflight
02-01-2011, 02:37 PM
Put up a light over the FT last night. The fish spent all night eating insects that hit the water.

stucco
02-01-2011, 06:48 PM
'My goal is mercury free, GMO free, Soy Free feed ingredients...'
You took the words right out of my mouth... how I long to produce my own complete AP food source- I know it is possible to have a complete eco-cycle in my own backyard - without waste and without missing out on everyday items... I look forward to an email from the admin with your notes/excel spreadsheet attached. I am quite used to producing forms in this program so I should be able to obtain a good ratio quickly to run a test on the fish. Thank you so much for your generosity of knowledge- it is much appreciated and i can't wait to try it out.. Thanks again.