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davidstcldfl
01-03-2010, 08:26 AM
MMMmmmmmm.....baby lobsters....... :lol: :D

They sound interesting. Too cold to go outside today :( .... found this while 'exploring'.

http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/srac/244fs.pdf

http://www.nt.gov.au/d/Content/File/p/Fishnote/FN32.pdf

Some day....my set up will look like this.... 8-)

http://www.alcareertech.org/acta/aquacu ... tewart.ppt (http://www.alcareertech.org/acta/aquaculture_julia_stewart.ppt)

Hope you find it interesting too. :D

badflash
01-04-2010, 05:02 PM
Great PDF! For some reason I never looked closely at Red Claws. Seems like the perfect cray to co-crop with tilapia.

davidstcldfl
01-04-2010, 07:34 PM
Glad you liked the files Badflash.

I'd really like to give them a try. There are 2 commercial growers, one North and one South , about an hour or so drive from me.
One guy is using 8' X18" deep kiddie pools to grow them in. I think he can have up to 500 adults per tank/pool.

They say 4 to 6 adults make a pound...wow!

stucco
01-13-2010, 06:13 PM
We spoke to the red claw folks today. They told us that all sales in Florida or to Florida residents requires an aquaculture permit, which may count us out as our site is 50 feet over the line of the flood zone :( . The boss is going to call tomorrow to see if it is any different than the last time we spoke to the aquaculture permit people….. Who told us “we had to build a 6 foot berm around our entire yard” “or just grow catfish”.

jackalope
01-13-2010, 08:55 PM
We spoke to the red claw folks today. They told us that all sales in Florida or to Florida residents requires an aquaculture permit, which may count us out as our site is 50 feet over the line of the flood zone :( . The boss is going to call tomorrow to see if it is any different than the last time we spoke to the aquaculture permit people….. Who told us “we had to build a 6 foot berm around our entire yard” “or just grow catfish”.

Don't you just love the socialist interference in our "governments." When we got destroyed in a flood in WA state, we lived in a so-called 500 year flood plain (it floods every 500 years) we checked back and found out that it flooded every 10 to 15 years for the last 40 years or so ..... but since it was in a 500 year flood plain, the sellers didn't have to tell us about the 3 floods in the past 40 years ...... life is wunnaful!!

davidstcldfl
01-14-2010, 09:29 AM
We spoke to the red claw folks today. They told us that all sales in Florida or to Florida residents requires an aquaculture permit, which may count us out as our site is 50 feet over the line of the flood zone :( .

Sorry to hear that Stucco.
The city I live in sits besides a large lake. I'm about 7 streets away, but I wasn't required to buy 'flood' insurance. (by my mortgage lender)
Before all the flood control canals were put in...I understand the lake front was like 2 streets away.. :?


When we got destroyed in a flood in WA state, we lived in a so-called 500 year flood plain (it floods every 500 years) we checked back and found out that it flooded every 10 to 15 years for the last 40 years or so ..... but since it was in a 500 year flood plain, the sellers didn't have to tell us about the 3 floods in the past 40 years ...... life is wunnaful!!

Jackalope....After reading about your 500 year flood plane....it makes me wonder how 'close' I am to the flood zone ?

I was considering getting a permit also.......Hmmmmm... :?:

I went on line and found a way to check on flood areas ......(hope the link works)
http://msc.fema.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... rs/Renters (http://msc.fema.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/info?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&content=userHelp_homeowner&title=Homeowners/Renters)

Looks like the 'flood zone' is one street away for me..... :o

JCO
01-14-2010, 10:23 AM
There are 2 commercial growers, one North and one South , about an hour or so drive from me.
One guy is using 8' X18" deep kiddie pools to grow them in.

David, you mentioned 2 commercial growers. I know about the one just South of Green Cove Springs....where is the other one? By the way, I don't know if you saw him on the TV News there or not, but the one just South of GCP made the news in Jacksonville. His entire crop of Tilapia was wiped out (he had the outside in ponds) and he was coming close to loosing the Red Claw because of low temperatures. It showed the inside of his operation on TV where he keeps the Red Claw and as best as I could tell, he had shade cloth on the sides of the Greenhouse, not much for keeping out the cold :mrgreen:

davidstcldfl
01-14-2010, 07:02 PM
David, you mentioned 2 commercial growers. I know about the one just South of Green Cove Springs....where is the other one? By the way, I don't know if you saw him on the TV News there or not, but the one just South of GCP made the news in Jacksonville.

The other link I saved is showing Miami aquaculture... Boynton Beach, FL
I must of not saved the link( or saved it to the wrong place) .....I thought there was one near Okeechobee / Indiantown area of FL... :?

No, I didn't get to see the news with his farm. Thats a real shame about his loss. I saw some pictures of his set up, about 2 weeks ago. I was wondering what he was going to do about keeping everything warm (?).... :cry:

davidstcldfl
01-15-2010, 07:19 AM
David, you mentioned 2 commercial growers. I know about the one just South of Green Cove Springs....where is the other one?

Patterson Farm........ Indiantown,FL

I also found this grower....
Smallbatch Aquaculture.... Homestead,FL

A friend of mine. said he remebered there was someone in Geneva, FL raising them too.

stucco
01-15-2010, 06:59 PM
The Florida Division of Aquaculture has been designated by Florida Fish and Wildlife to determine who can be permitted to own and operate any culture system with redclaw. Evidently, the FF&W did not want redclaw to be permitted in the state at all, but was swayed to allow it under certain conditions (including tank heights being 1 ft above the flood plane) thru the Division of Aquaculture. The gentleman I spoke with stated that many of the original permit owners had trouble with the profitability of the redclaw since they are foragers and do not necessarily eat when fed. They also like to be in an enclosed environment similar to their natural home. Singular layer culture tanks deter them from mating and the water quality suffers from the deteriorating food. Although less likely to fight than prawn, many of the same elements of culture situations apply. The fresh water prawn, however, is not a prohibited animal.
I suggested to the Aquaculture Representative that culture in an Aquaponics situation would relieve at least some of these issues, to which he agreed, but it did not matter since the regulations require anyone who is to possess a certificate for the redclaw to operate a rather large commercial business, no personal or small operations of redclaw are allowed any longer due to the pervious inexperience operators who could not supply the redclaw with their needs in order to become profitable.
As for the Department of Aquaculture, I found the rep to be not only informative (as we conversed for about an hour regarding all things relative) but also helpful in trying to nail down some other possibilities for types of allowable fish, based on their environmental needs, which could possibly be cultured and profitable for foodstock .
So, in conclusion- sorry redclaw fans, but no dice to you guys here in Florida. Freshwater prawns are the ticket for you instead. Possibilities for future aquaculture fish- the hytec spec is acceptable for sure and has anyone ever thought about the peacock bass? I had often wondered if these were allowed, but they are not native either. Brought in for the bug population and sport fishing, they require live feed- minnows, but could they be brought to feed on SFL or even a SFL mix meal pellet?? They are legal and are prized for their flavor. More research is needed…my next mission?
:ugeek:

badflash
01-15-2010, 10:31 PM
Prawns don't work in a recirc aquaponics system. Been there, failed at that. They need room. You need a gregarios species. In an aquaponics system you end up with just one male and a bunch of females. The meat is in the males.

davidstcldfl
01-16-2010, 05:47 AM
Thanks Stucco for sharing the info. I actually got into aquaponics from hearing a co-worker several years back, talk about wanting to raise prawns and tomatoes aquaponically. Everyone else thought he was 'kinda out there'... :lol:

Thanks for your input too, Badflash.

Not what I was really hoping to hear though....
Between the two of you, you guys are 'peeing in my wheaties'.... :( ....when I finnish setting up my outside system and start to cycle the water....."Then" you can pee in "it" !.... :lol:

badflash
01-16-2010, 09:13 AM
In many states there are exemptions for home gardening and aquatic pets. Find a local agricultural agent and see if they can help. The key points in most of these regulations is to prevent invasive species from escaping, and protect established buisness that pay bribes from competition.

badflash
01-31-2010, 11:20 AM
I took the plung and ordered some red claws from Stick Fins. They should arrive on 2/12. Been doing a lot of reading and got the book they recommend on their website. They really do appear to be a perfect match for tilapia. They are year-around breeders to boot.

Interestingly enough, they need veggie matter as well as protien feed. I got a 50# bag of alfalfa pellets today for $15. I vacuum pack most of that for the future. I'll get some sinking pellets, and I should be all set.

It amazes me that you can grow 4 of these guys per square foot and they won't rip each other apart. They can get to over 8 ounces in a year and have a much larger portion of tail meat than any other crayfish.

davidstcldfl
02-01-2010, 05:02 AM
Wow Badflash, that's great. :mrgreen: I'll be looking forward to your updates on this new project.

badflash
02-14-2010, 01:10 PM
Got 27 redclaws on Friday. They range from 2" to 4". They look pretty good so far. I'll keep you posted.

dufflight
02-14-2010, 02:07 PM
And pictures. Are red claw agressive. I've put hundreds of yabbies into the system and what the fish didn't clean up they did themselves. Want to try Marron. Kinda like a fresh water lobster.

badflash
02-14-2010, 04:45 PM
Of the three Australian commercial crays, the red claw grows the largest & fastest and is the least aggressive towards its own. You can pack them 4 to the square foot without problems. They do need hides, but so far I've seen no issues. They need to be kept away from any fish that might view them as a meal. They walk right over each other without making any sort of aggressive response. The males are really stunning. I'm hoping they will get a little bluer.

Easy & cheap to feed. Mostly alfalfa pellets supplemented with sinking feed 30% protein.

badflash
02-14-2010, 05:11 PM
Here are some pics of one of the males. I'm hoping after he molts he'll have better color:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/badflash/crays/redclaw1.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/badflash/crays/redclaw2.jpg

davidstcldfl
02-14-2010, 07:13 PM
Very cool..... :mrgreen:
What's the length of the male in the picture Badflash ?

badflash
02-14-2010, 07:17 PM
About 4". They get to be 12" long and 1/2 pound. Most of that is tail meat.

davidstcldfl
03-12-2010, 05:57 AM
Baflash, How are the red claws doing...?.... :D

keith_r
07-19-2010, 10:41 AM
how are the redclaws now bf?

badflash
07-20-2010, 10:04 AM
They are growing well. I have a few young ones, and have now separated out a male and 4 females for him to breed with. Hopefully I'll get a nice berry or two. 300-500 eggs at a pop is what is expected.

Catfish- they are good eating, like any lobster. No claw meat, but great tail meat. At 60 months they are over 6" and can be harvested. If I can get these to reproduce in number, they will make a great addition to my system.

They would be good in the aquarium trade as well. Put in a tank with white coral sand they get to be a great blue color. With the red claws of the males, they are stunning.

catfish
07-20-2010, 11:22 AM
They are growing well. I have a few young ones, and have now separated out a male and 4 females for him to breed with. Hopefully I'll get a nice berry or two. 300-500 eggs at a pop is what is expected.

Catfish- they are good eating, like any lobster. No claw meat, but great tail meat. At 60 months they are over 6" and can be harvested. If I can get these to reproduce in number, they will make a great addition to my system.

They would be good in the aquarium trade as well. Put in a tank with white coral sand they get to be a great blue color. With the red claws of the males, they are stunning.


I wish these could be raised outside, but I think the cold tolerance is not too good. Maybe I can find anoth type of Crayfish to work with.

Any ideas?

badflash
07-20-2010, 11:29 AM
Sure. Check out the red swamp crayfish P. clarkii. If you get blue, orange or white breeders they are worth more as pets than food, but you can eat them too.
Orange P. Clarkii (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?37-Orange-P-Clarkii)

The wild types breed a lot easier. They can over winter in places that freeze. There are introduced populations in Vermont.

aquacultureguy
08-05-2010, 09:45 PM
Great info! here are a couple pics of mine. Male is about 6", females are about 4"-5".

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4835&stc=1

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4836&stc=1

jackalope
08-06-2010, 03:10 PM
I suggested to the Aquaculture Representative that culture in an Aquaponics situation would relieve at least some of these issues, to which he agreed, but it did not matter since the regulations require anyone who is to possess a certificate for the redclaw to operate a rather large commercial business, no personal or small operations of redclaw are allowed any longer due to the pervious inexperience operators who could not supply the redclaw with their needs in order to become profitable.

I gotta say, stucco, that's just totally wrong on the face of it. I would think that could easily be challenged, as it smacks of "protectionism" toward big business, rather than safety, animal cruelty, or any other such excuse they may use. I suggest that you look up the laws personally at your County Law Library, rather than accepting the interpretation of someone that is bound up in administrative rules. If the administrative rules are not in line with the law, they can be beat! I know this personally, here in Montana!

keith_r
09-22-2010, 11:21 AM
I'm thinking of starting up some red claw crays in my basement this winter.. i've got 3 55 gallon tanks that i'll be using on the basement setup, one for fish, and the other 2 for cray's? i'm thinking of getting a couple dozen and hopefully breed over winter, and use an 8' snap set pool for growout in the summer, i read somewhere that a commercial operation was growing out 500 crays in that size, i won't be anywhere near as ambitious as that

it looks like you have yours in tanks, how many do you have in what size tank?
i've read quite a bit, but still have a long way to go before i have any clue to what i'm talking about.. food options look like anything from rabbit pellets to horse feed plus a "sinking pellet" - around 50/50 mix?

i'm starting the indoor stuff this weekend, gotta get my blocks to set up tanks on, another pump.. all the fun stuff..

badflash
09-22-2010, 03:42 PM
Use alfalfa pellets, not rabbit pellet. Not only is it cheaper, it has no copper, which rabbit pellets are loaded with. Primary feed is the pellets. Suppliment about 20% with high protein sinking pellets.

Get the walkamins, they grow faster and get bigger. For a breeding colony you can put 1 male and 4 females in a 20 gallon tank with hides for each cray.

keith_r
09-23-2010, 06:31 AM
so a little searching shows that the walkamin is some kind of cross between red claw and another cray for faster/bigger growth..
i've only found one source for redclaw so far, stick fins in fl i think.. gonna keep looking, gotta build something to put them in before ordering anything though..

badflash
09-23-2010, 06:55 PM
I got my walkamins from stick fins. They are not a hybrid, just big fast growing red claws from selective breeding.

urbanfarmer
10-12-2010, 02:14 PM
Thank you guys. I had never considered this, and I am definitely going to try it out. Man, this forum is full of great ideas from great people! Thanks again everyone :mrgreen:

davidstcldfl
10-12-2010, 04:23 PM
Urbanfarmer..... :( ....we need a permit for these too. Stick fins won't sell to you if you don't.
They aren't too far from us...on the river, in Saint Johns county.

urbanfarmer
10-12-2010, 04:36 PM
If we split the permit, one of us can get the livestock and we can divvy it up. It's $100 a year, but you have to set up a viable commercial operation in an area not listed under the floodplain. I may have such a place, but I'm still checking.

CookingCajun
05-11-2011, 07:11 AM
the Aquanic site is dismantled, here is a link to the pdf, I think. Confirm if this is it.

https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/48/

C.C. (NW, Florida, Zone 8b)

urbanfarmer
05-11-2011, 12:31 PM
the Aquanic site is dismantled, here is a link to the pdf, I think. Confirm if this is it.

https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/48/

C.C. (NW, Florida, Zone 8b)
I thought this happened a while ago. I used a program that archives entire websites, and after about 6 hours I think I got most their stuff onto my hard drive, including what seemed like all the PDF type articles/research. :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:

Bioritize
02-11-2012, 08:53 PM
BF,

Did you really mean after 60 months they can be harvested? Or 6 months?

davidstcldfl
02-12-2012, 06:28 AM
Under optimal pond conditions redclaw can grow from hatching to the smallest marketable size (~30 g)
within four months. Queensland redclaw usually mature at around six months of age, or 45-50 g, but it
may be possible to select for later maturing animals when selecting for faster growers.
From a PDF on raising them.....
http://www.nt.gov.au/d/Content/File/p/Fishnote/FN32.pdf

foodchain
02-12-2012, 09:55 AM
Zetts fish farm in Pennsulvania may have a better crayfish, and you don't need the permit.
I am not overyly impressed by the redclaw...but that's just my 2 cents.

Bioritize
02-12-2012, 12:18 PM
I was thinking of going with either the Marmorkrebs or the Reds here, what are you thoughts Foodchain?

I wanted to add something to my new sump tank for sure and I figured that a shellfish would help add calcium as well as clean and occasionally feed the fish.

What would you recommend?

foodchain
02-12-2012, 03:57 PM
You talking AP or Reef or regular freshwater tank?

Bioritize
02-12-2012, 04:16 PM
AP system, I have two 275 gal tanks and a 150 sump total of 700 gallons or so of fish tank I only have around 350 gallons of grow bed at the moment.

keith_r
02-13-2012, 06:38 AM
redclaw like it warm.. i have crayfish that i got from the local bait shop (papershell crayfish) that have been doing pretty well in the unheated pool... i put the females i catch mating or in berry in a different 55 gallon tank that is at about 70f, there are some ghostshrimp in that tank too.. just got a marmokreb, in my rosy red fry tank (all the baby fish dissappeared before adding the marm), so we'll see with her..

tmcmaster
02-05-2016, 07:46 AM
Got 27 redclaws on Friday. They range from 2" to 4". They look pretty good so far. I'll keep you posted.

I must have missed it, but where did you get them?