GB/FT/Fish Questions

[DaSoul]

Hey All,

First time poster. Been looking at aquaponics for a while. Finally decided to go with it on a proof of concept to appeas my wife.

My questions are concerning the growbed and the fishtank. Some of my reading indicates that I need to have some rocks in the fish tank to support beneficial bacteria that would convert ammonia to nitrates. Other reading indicates that I do not need rocks for the fish tank as the material in the growbed would support the nitrogen cycle. Little bit confused here and just trying to figure out what to buy.

Was looking at hydroton but cost is a factor. How deep should the grow media be? I was thinking we might want to grow carrots but I would assume that the media would have to be fairly deep for that to get good growth for a carrot. That would lead to extra cost as far as grow media is concerned as it would need more depth.

So can someone set me straight. Do I need rocks in the fish tank or just the media in the grow bed. One thing I do not have is a bio filter. If someone has a recommendation for a way to setup an expensive biofilter for a proof of concept I would be open to hear it. (25 gallon fish area)

Right now the fish area is only going to be about 25 gallons of water or so. How large a grow bed might I be able to have for this? I assume not very large considering. Setting this up in my basement how many tilapia do you think I can put into this one system? :D I assume it would be hard to secure tilipia in such small amount and maybe I should start of with something like just two gold fish for the proof of concept. I assume either case I may need some type of water heater? Anyone have any recommendations? Or would maybe some other fish be better to start off this POC. Final system will be the IBC tote style variety likely. Ultimately I will be looking to go the tilapia route.

Thanks for the help!

Scott

[eddiemigue]

Welcome Scott!

I recommend that you leave the FT bare (only water and fish) to ease removal of solids. Any media in the FT will trap solids where you don't want them. Then I would add dedicated filtration (a simple aquarium filter, or you can put together a DIY setup). As far as the GB, consider starting out with a floating raft system (DWC) and initially growing greens/herbs. This is the easiest and most likely system to have success, IMO, and will serve you well as you learn the in's and out's of the AP world.

[DruidFromAus]

Hello and welcome :)

On the topic of your Bio Filter, your grow bed itself can be your bio filter (however I'm not sure on this when it comes to floating raft systems).

Have you checked out Olivers 101 guide? this will answer a lot of your questions.

viewforum.php?f=112 (http://diyaquaponics.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=112)

[DaSoul]

Thanks for the response guys. I havent read much about the floating raft systems. I will look into that and I will also check out those posts. Need to go read a book for work so I think my exploration is done for the night. Anyone else has any tips it would be greatly appreciated.

[cgindiana]

I would go with goldfish for this scaled back trial... No heater required and they are available at local pet stores as "feeder fish" for about the price I was able to find my tilapia for in bulk. I agree with the bare floor of the ft. The gravel in the frowned will act like bio media, but if going with a raft system I don't see why you couldn't place a media box in between the ft and gb... Much like a canister filter... Best of wishes and I cannot stress the "over usage" of activated carbon for keeping fish odor down to keep the wife happy!!! Best of luck!

[JeffS]

No rocks in FT. The most simple system would be a media GB. This would act as all the filter you would need as well as the base for your plants. The bed should be 12" deep. This is a YouTube video that you will find helpful. Bright Agrotech has lots of good info on AP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKGiXoJMLbo I know it doesn't take a lot of fish to handle a large grow bed. Good luck with your project.

[DruidFromAus]

Also on the topic of this setup, you mentioned you're doing this in your basement, have you looked into what type of lighting you would use?

And with growbed depth for in ground veg, from what I have read you want 12 inches, for on top of ground veg I read that 8 inches is the minimum safe goal, this said when I started growing my tomatoes, they started in about 3-4 inches and now in the new system maybe 6 inches if I'm lucky, and have still grown fine, The numbers are like guidelines, if you can follow them great, but if your a little short and a gambling man, give it a shot.

[DaSoul]

Enjoying all the replies. I think I will be going with rocks in the growbed and from what I read 12 inches is the best number for the bacteria to work to break down the fish poop solids.

As far as lights for the basement I bought the following:

Hydrofarm FLT24 2-ft/ 4-Tube T5 Commercial System with Bulbs

I guess I probably need to go with just one fish right now in order to have enough fish waste to power small growbed contained by these lights. I have considered some vertical growbeds as well to grow as much leafy greens as I can in the small space. Some other thoughts I had was instead of using a full growbed would be to use the net pots and a CF type system to limit the amount of growbed I would need. Obviously I would need some other type of biofilter in that case.

Should I just upgrade and get an IBC for the fish tank area? I feel like that would be better than a small 29 gallon area simply because the more water will make the environment more stable or no? Not entirely sure how food grade safe the tote is I would be using for the FT area anyways.

[Apollo]

Welcome, DaSoul from Minnesota, glad that you have joined us. May your journey bring you the knowledge that you seek, put a smile up on your face, create hours of pleasure to stimulate your mind, an a healthier life style for your heart...from Apollo__Phoenix, Arizona.

"Not entirely sure how food grade safe the tote is I would be using for the FT area anyways." IBS food grade totes are the same ones that I use in my Rain Barrel System and what others are using for the AP set up here.

To add more water to your system and still have a BIO Filter...do a raft system as far as the plumbing goes, but use media in it with no raft. I change over one of my fill and drain GB to that system, check out some of my last entries in "Pipe Siphon by Apollo".

If you want to view my set up from start to now, check out “Fire Pit … AP” then “Pipe Siphon by Apollo” and ending with "Got Vertigrow?".

____________________________________
I HAVE NOT FAILED. I'VE JUST FOUND 10,000 WAYS THAT WON'T WORK. Thomas A Edison

[Roger L.]

Hello and welcome DaSoul. I also have a basement system. A couple of things I have learned, if the fish tank is on the floor it needs to be insulated from the concrete and T5 lighting is not good enough. Both these lessons I learned the hard way. Raising a fishtank with 175 gallons of water is no easy feat. The extra money on lighting is better spent up front than replacing insufficient lighting later. Also buy the food grade IBC. look online to find someone who sells them or get them from a food manufacturing sight. Anything that hauled fuels or insecticides I would definitely stay away from.

[DaSoul]

"Not entirely sure how food grade safe the tote is I would be using for the FT area anyways." IBS food grade totes are the same ones that I use in my Rain Barrel System and what others are using for the AP set up here.

Hey Apollo thanks for the input. I was just saying the 29 gallon tote I have now that I was going to use for the FT is not IBC or IBS. It was a tote I purchased from Costco so it likely isnt Food Grade.


Hello and welcome DaSoul. I also have a basement system. A couple of things I have learned, if the fish tank is on the floor it needs to be insulated from the concrete and T5 lighting is not good enough. Both these lessons I learned the hard way. Raising a fishtank with 175 gallons of water is no easy feat. The extra money on lighting is better spent up front than replacing insufficient lighting later. Also buy the food grade IBC. look online to find someone who sells them or get them from a food manufacturing sight. Anything that hauled fuels or insecticides I would definitely stay away from.

Thanks for the information if T5 isn't good enough what type of lights do you recommend for lighting in the basement. Those lights are very well reviewed on Amazon and I am surprised that you would say it wouldn't be enough. I'm probably going to start with growing greens at this time so there is that.

Thanks,

Scott

[DruidFromAus]

Hey just thought I would add this.

I read "pipe siphon by Apollo", the siphon design does seem good, as someone else pointed out you only need one down pipe, I believe the double down pipe is extra "fool proofing", however it seems that the reluctance to use a bell siphon was due to its complexity and diffuculty to get it running properly.

Here is a VERY simple bell siphon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDzcKgWLRf0

Hope this is helpful :)

[eddiemigue]

Enjoying all the replies. I think I will be going with rocks in the growbed and from what I read 12 inches is the best number for the bacteria to work to break down the fish poop solids.


I wouldn't rely on the GB to capture and process your solids. Adding solids filtration can be done simply, and at low cost, and will give you a healthier and more resilient system.

[Apollo]

I read "pipe siphon by Apollo", the siphon design does seem good, as someone else pointed out you only need one down pipe, I believe the double down pipe is extra "fool proofing", Fool Proofing YES, much better to have twice as much water as needed to fire the siphon with no need to keep twinkling it. The problem I was having had to do with my return pipe back to the FT...wrong size, wrong angle, not enough drop, etc. The additional down pipe on the Pipe Siphon confiscated for the errors I make in my drain pipe to the FT, which was no longer accessible for modification.

I did add my Whirlpool Filter / Fry Catcher, 6 months after my system start up between my pump and grow beds. Even though there wasn't any build up visible in the GB's at the time I added my Vertigrow Towers...just to keep future maintenance down.

[Roger L.]

Sorry I left that important bit of info out of my comments. T8 lighting is the way to go. With the T5 my lettuce would start and then stall. With the T8's the lettuce took off and has provided salads whenever I want.

[JeffS]

Scott, Your GB will provide all the filtration you need as long as you don't overload it with too many fish. This site might help. This guy has a ton of informative videos of accurate info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKGiXoJMLbo I go back and review these regularly.

[eddiemigue]

Sorry I left that important bit of info out of my comments. T8 lighting is the way to go. With the T5 my lettuce would start and then stall. With the T8's the lettuce took off and has provided salads whenever I want.

Interesting Roger. I've tried both, and haven't had any issues with either. I would expect otherwise for the same number of bulbs since the T5's have a higher wattage.

[eddiemigue]

Scott,

Regarding filtration, I stand by my recommendation for dedicated solids and bio filters. You can setup a system w/o this, relying on your GB for these function, as many others have done successfully, but dedicated filtration will give you better water quality, greater carrying capacity at the same energy operating costs and a greater margin for error as you learn your way though the AP world.