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mespe
10-06-2013, 06:06 AM
Well I bumped my AP fish tank and cracked the side with the hole drilled in it for a CHIFT PIS
So, I had such success wilth a 50 gallon tank, I'm going full speed ahead and build a AP greenhouse with solar heated water.

The first problem to tackle was how to hold the 20x4 solar pool heater to be used to heat the water. To maximize efficiency for teh coldest of months (February) Sun's angle is 31 degrees.

Thus:

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4878&stc=1

I glued the panel to furring strips. Hoping that it's stay up there.

I located some 1 1/2 PVC conduit, got a decent deal 20 ft length for $4.00
Picked up 15 or so and now we have a hoop.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4879&stc=1

Right now it's attached at the top with PVC pipe heated and formed,,,
( I will be filling inbetween the pipes with that expanding foam, and adding
brackets along the hoops).

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4880&stc=1

and

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4881&stc=1


Now for the horizontals,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4882&stc=1

I don't want a bunch of 4 way fittings, so thuis is what I'm doing,, these will be glued and probably taped over.

More pics next post

mespe
10-06-2013, 06:20 AM
After drilling the horizontals (hole saw is the ID of the pipe)
I cut the excess.
I found that a rounded clipper works much better than a flat scissor top cutter.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4757&stc=1

It was really neat, after cutting the piece, when joined they snapped together like legos.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4758&stc=1

I cut about 20 horizontals. Using a drill press and a fixture to ensure consistent results.

The fish tank will be in the ground inside the greenhouse. I'm thinking about 6 or 7 feet square 2-3 feet deep, should be a decent thermal mass.

The solar water heater is rated at 60,000 BTU's

That's were we stand as of this AM.

eddiemigue
10-08-2013, 01:27 PM
Very nice. Looking forward to reading about your results. What kind of fish ate you raising?

JCO
10-09-2013, 12:17 AM
Mush on you Huskies...great work..better get it in gear, Ole Man Winter is at your door. Keep us informed and photos please. Lookin' good so far. We all will be curious to see how your solar heater works out. :mrgreen:

mespe
10-12-2013, 07:33 AM
Did some work, but had a disaster too.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4137&stc=1

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4138&stc=1

Now there isn't that much tension on the PVC pipe to break like that.
Anyone hazard a guess how it broke? I'd be interested in knowing,,,

mespe
10-12-2013, 07:35 AM
None the less, continue working,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4759&stc=1

My fish tank it's 6 ft x 9 ft and 32 inches deep, supposed to hold 750 gallons,,,

Thank you University of Akron for the Publuc Surplus auction,,, $30


http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4760&stc=1

Here's a side angle - notice the broken PVC pipe? Now look how much tensions is on them. Is there a possibility that the glue substanially weakened the pipe. It was a few days after I glued the pieces that it broke.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4761&stc=1

Oliver
10-13-2013, 06:18 PM
Some things that popped out at me while looking at your pictures.

When using a circle cuter on plastic it often gives a cleaner cut if you run the drill in reverse.

I can only assume that your hoop house is also being used as a greenhouse as well as a thermal cover for you solar heater, otherwise that is a lot of surface area to lose heat through just for a solar panel.

Being in northern Ohio places you at about 41.1 degrees North latitude. That means your equinox sun angle will be 49.9 degrees above the horizon and your winter solstice sun angle will be only about 25.4 degrees above the horizon, if I've done my math correctly.

At 25.4 degrees of sun angle, I am curious about where your plants are going to be in order to keep them from being in front of your solar heater panels. They must be on the ground and you are not going to grow anything very tall, otherwise it will shade the panels.

In addition, it looks like another structure is in front of the hoop house and it looks like that will also shade part of your growing area when the sun gets to be at 25.4 degrees above the horizon on December 21st.

Lots of conjecture here, so looking forward to your response.

Oliver

mespe
10-16-2013, 07:02 AM
Oliver, you are one smart cookie. I set up the panel for November & February solar angle. I figured Feb is one of the coldest months,,,

Yeah my solar powered water well is in the way of the greenhouse, may have to take it down. The reason for the well, was to water my gardens. There is a 50 gallon water tank inside the roof.

But now with the greenhouse and it's 750 AP tank, I might rethink my water, but then the well will only block a little sun light, and def, not going to the panel.

Here are some latest pics.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4762&stc=1

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4763&stc=1

And finally last night after cutting, gluing and nailing/screwing wood

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4764&stc=1

I have partially completed one side

Oliver
10-16-2013, 12:21 PM
I am glad to see that you are putting the fish tank in the ground. That will allow you to have the grow beds fairly low.

I have considered the tank-in-the ground concept for cold installations but I don't have a good metric on how far inside a heated structure the tank needs to be. There is a temperature gradient from the outside frozen ground to where the tank is located. The further in the tank in the warmer ground the less transfer of heat from the tank to the outside frozen ground. All of this can be applied to hot desert challenges as well. In that case, putting the tank in the ground for cooling makes sense.

Again, I don't have any numbers or any experience in this but at sometime I believe I am going to be faced with that challenge. In any event, the fish tank needs to be kept warmer than you will probably ever see the ground temperature, even inside the greenhouse. With that in mind, I would insulate the fish tank and heat it in order to keep it above the ground temperature.

Oliver

mespe
10-16-2013, 06:22 PM
Ground temp here is 55 F. Hoping to heat up the clay in the ground, as I don't want the water temp to fluctuate too much. And yes my arms and shoulders are still aching from all that digging. Slowly filling the FT up with well water, and some rain water today too.
shovel got some use too, as I started working on the wall near the FT, I had to move the dirt and clay to make room for the ladder.
No new pictures today, but I did find a used exterior door for $10, so hopefully tomorrow I can finish the first wall and maybe even put some plastic up soon.

Considering stretch wrapping the outside PVC poles to the wood frame that I built, then applying that expanding foam inside the stretch wrap. Should stiffen up the wall considerably sticking to both the PVC and the wood frame.

Still not comfortable with supporting the PVC. I think I might run some 2x4 from the center beam to hold up some coduit to hold up the PVC.

mespe
10-17-2013, 11:52 AM
Finished working for today,,, here's the results,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4765&stc=1

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4766&stc=1

dead_sled
10-17-2013, 01:14 PM
http://i.imgur.com/BCDYv.gif
Enjoying the show, keep it up! 8-)
What are you planning for the growing area setup?

mespe
10-17-2013, 05:06 PM
Enjoying the show, keep it up! 8-)
What are you planning for the growing area setup?

Two things I gotta put in there are my grapefruit tree and lemon bush. And I have two growbeds from the other setup, and a lettuce trough. Thinking about adding a celery trough too.

mespe
10-19-2013, 10:47 AM
Added some structural support,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4161&stc=1

here's a closeup,,, smooshed metal pipe in my vice and drilled a hole

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4162&stc=1

getting closer to covering it up. But I think I want to test the solar heater first, as after the plastic is up, it's going to be tight trying to plumb things,,,

Aloha Don
10-19-2013, 11:33 AM
Question.....Why put the solar panels inside?
It looks like this is just using up valuable grow space....
Also, grapefruit and lemon plants can grow tall....wont this affect your solar panels?

mespe
10-19-2013, 02:35 PM
It's a solar water heater, I will be pumping water through it to heat up the water, it's not electrical solar panel, those wil go outside.

AFA grapefruit yes they grow 16-20 feet tall, I plan on putting the grapefruit in teh ground behind the solar panel growing on an angle towards the center of the greenhouse.

I'm pretty sure that there will be a bit of rope used to train the plant, Als with enough branches it won't try to grow too tall. AFA the lemon, it's a bush, and shouldn't grow too tall, if it/they do, I'll have to prune, just got to make certain that I can get to the branches.

mespe
10-21-2013, 01:02 PM
It's a beautiful day here in NE Ohio I should be working on the GH, but I have been all day and needed to do some work at work and take a break from working.

Here's some latest pics,,,

Firstly, I guess it's officially a GH now, as it has a plant,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4767&stc=1

So I am committed to completing this project in a timely manner,,, not 6 months,,,

Here's a pic of the PVC stretch wrapped to the sides and secured with expanding foam

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4768&stc=1

That's all for now,,,

JCO
10-21-2013, 02:05 PM
You know certain plastics detiorate when exposed to sun light...what about shrink wrap plastic...what it the life expetcancy :?: :mrgreen:

mespe
10-21-2013, 04:43 PM
You know certain plastics detiorate when exposed to sun light...what about shrink wrap plastic...what it the life expetcancy :?: :mrgreen:
The stretch wrap is only there to hold the expanding foam in place while it is expanding. I'll probably leave it there as it will be covered with 6 mil plastic and shouldn't hurt anything.

Apollo
10-21-2013, 07:17 PM
You'll probably need to paint your expandable foam with some white roof coating, as far as I know all form roofs need to have a protective coating.

All of your plants look really good, did you start the in the GB or inside? I'm just start my plants in 1 inch grow cubes, 3 days ago. About 40% have already sprouted.

Check out my set-up on "Pipe Siphon by Apollo". PS You can sure put in a lot of time in the build...but it will all be worth it in the end.

mespe
10-22-2013, 09:08 AM
I was able to get one side wall mostly up, had to leave for work, as I'm expecting a semi to pick up a motor.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4769&stc=1

I used carpet tacking around the lower perimeter and around the door, but the wifey to work pulling out the longer nails. Will probably put a bead of caulking around the inside just to be sure.

mespe
10-22-2013, 04:37 PM
Today's work,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4180&stc=1

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4181&stc=1

mespe
10-24-2013, 05:26 AM
Discovered a few leaks in the solar water heater, need to plug them before I put the main plastic, also need to do some plumbing,,,

dead_sled
10-24-2013, 07:13 AM
Are you going to train your trees to maximize space?
http://www.examiner.com/article/training-apple-and-fruit-trees-against-a-wall

mespe
10-25-2013, 07:02 AM
Are you going to train your trees to maximize space?
http://www.examiner.com/article/training-apple-and-fruit-trees-against-a-wall
Yes the grapefruit needs to be trained, the lemon, I think will be a bush, as It's got alot of branches, need to put it in the ground as well.

Here's a picture of my working conditions yesterday,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4770&stc=1


And final product last night,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4771&stc=1

mespe
10-25-2013, 12:26 PM
The nearly finished product,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4772&stc=1

Training a grapefruit,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4773&stc=1

Transplanted some peppers,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4774&stc=1

As you can see, the camera lens started fogging up due to the heat and humidity.

Aloha Don
10-25-2013, 02:07 PM
Turned out very nice..
Good job..

mespe
10-26-2013, 08:14 AM
Still got a whole lotta work before it's finished. Bought alot of time with the covering, still has many holes that need to be addressed (places where doors are to be put, one for the battery compartment and one for the compost). Also need to add a fan, and play around with some plumbing and fix some leaks, and the list goes on and on,,,

dead_sled
10-28-2013, 06:33 AM
Nice progress. I bet it feel good to have it dried in!

Roger L.
10-28-2013, 07:03 AM
You've got some time before the lake effect snows begin. Will it hold the weight and stresses of that?

mespe
10-28-2013, 12:13 PM
Quick post before I do some work, work,,, Bought a temp/humidity sensor Temp got up to 80 degrees F and with an RH of 66%.

Opened the door to get rid of some of that humidity,,, all the rain before I covered it is now condensing on the inner plastic.

Not sure if my fan moves enough air, so I picked up another fan, here's the original,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4775&stc=1

And here's a pic of the back. I dug along the North wall, tucked the plastic in and around to the inside of the GH. What I should have done was kept the plastic even and put both layers on the outside, but, was fighting time, and weather conditions, and wasn't sure it was long enough, and hadn't thought of it,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4776&stc=1

mespe
10-28-2013, 12:17 PM
You've got some time before the lake effect snows begin. Will it hold the weight and stresses of that?
Yep, got the wood, plan on using corner brackets to secure a 2x4 pependicular to the center beam, to support the 4 inside PVC hoops. The outer ones are secured to the wood frame with expanding foam.

I'm toying with the idea of using some 1 inch metal tubing that I have laying around this "hoarders" tool shed number 2, instead of 2x4's.

mespe
10-30-2013, 11:50 AM
Good news and bad news,,,

First the good, which is also the bad,,,

The solar water heater was able to heat the water in the FT 2.5 degrees F per hour of full sunlight.

Ambient was in the 50's starting temp inside the GH was in the 70's (When I turned on the pump)
10:35 pump on, water temp 54
1:12 pump off water temp 61

7 degrees in 2.5 hours, won't that make for spiteful fish, being subject to that kind of water temp change. Then triple that for 7.5 hours of sunlight, or 21 degree (or so change in water temp)

Ideally I was hoping to keep the water around 70 - 80

But A, numero Uno requirement is to keep the GH temp in the 40's at night, and with the possibility of sub zero temps, I might need to heat the FT up to 90 or so degrees if I can, else backup heater.

I dunno, need more testing and need to complete putting up plastic on the inside.

I also think I might move the batteries outside and make a little box for them, maybe a dog house,, yeah that would be cool.

Didn't take any pics today, nothing new , other than I finally cut the grass yeasterday and started the compost pile inside.

mespe
10-31-2013, 03:26 PM
Latest GH pics

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4777&stc=1


Transplanted a tomato today,,, Only one that has survived,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4778&stc=1

Need to stake it up

dead_sled
11-04-2013, 02:25 PM
It may be better to heat the soil around the FT. This should allow the temperature to change a bit more gradually.

mespe
11-05-2013, 02:47 PM
We had a good hard frost here the day before yesterday. Temp in the GH dropped to 33.2 I turned on the pump and pumped 56F water through the panel. Temp rose rather quickly,,, thinking if the water were 80F I shouldn't have any problem keeping the GH warm when it gets cold out.
So, I'm in the process of building a wood fired water heater. Plans are to use an old Propane tank (Sorry Hank) as the boiler, building a brick enclsoure around it, pumping water from the FT through the Water heater.

mespe
11-11-2013, 08:02 AM
It may be better to heat the soil around the FT. This should allow the temperature to change a bit more gradually.
AS it turns out, I am adding a rocket stoev mass heater. Most of the mass will be around the fishtank. With a wood burnign heater inside, I don't need to get the water temp up really high for extended cold periods. (Don't think it would get hot enough anyway, and I'm not risking losing my grapefruit tree.

Here's the guts of the thing. Need to fill inbetween the two tubes with perlite. (oops you can't see the inside tube, but you can see all the cuts at the top fof teh stack that I need to bend over and seal.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4779&stc=1

And what it'll look like before painting,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4780&stc=1

mespe
11-11-2013, 01:07 PM
Finished (sorta) the rocket mass heater.

Here's the inside after adding the peralite.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4781&stc=1

added a mixture of mortar and clay (both at the bottom and the top)
Bottom just enough so I couldn't see any light, top a bit heavier.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4784&stc=1

Now to bend the metal tabs back

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4785&stc=1

Put the Tank over it,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4783&stc=1

I filled the tank up to the bottom of the exhaust opening with dirt.
attached the last few pieces of ductwork to the tank,
Put a 5 foot Stack outside 5 feet from the Green house
And light a fire,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4782&stc=1

mespe
11-11-2013, 01:10 PM
Now all that's left is to seal up the elbow joints and add cob around the ductwork.

Forcast is in the 20's tonight,,, what timing,,,

Also looks like I don't need to heat the fishtank up to 80 degrees so I can have an aquaponics GH after all,,,

mespe
11-18-2013, 07:32 AM
Here's a few more recent pics of the progress

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4786&stc=1

Added some copper tubing around the heater box, and some cob to transfer more heat. The cob started falling off, so I held it in place with an old sheet.

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4788&stc=1

Tomatoe is doing rather poorly, but still alive, then I bumped it, and the nicest branch fell off,,,

http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4787&stc=1

Transplanted the lemon into the ground (in the picture) and added some compost on the area over the grapefruit roots.

dead_sled
11-21-2013, 10:42 AM
Very cool. I have been researching rocket heaters for about a year. I am building a rocket variation for my house presently. I am also trying to keep my 'grapefruit' warm. :)

The heat riser tube will likely burn out quickly if it is made of metal. It might make it through this winter.

IdahoAquaponics
01-01-2014, 07:11 AM
Being a cold weather winter dweller myself i am very impressed with your inovation. How has the rocket stove helped to maintain your temp? I am trying to figure out a good system myself to grow during the cold Idaho winters. Any advice would be wonderful.

JeffS
03-10-2014, 08:36 PM
I put a wood burner in my GH and it works just fine. Only problem is keeping it going over night. Plus wood heaters are a lot of work. I stopped using it and put in a thermostatic controlled propane radiant heater. Cost a little more to run but is better for me and more reliable. I will run the wood heater if I am going to be in the GH for any length of time plus the propane heater will take over when the fire goes out.

semi
06-16-2014, 08:27 AM
So Mespe, how did your setup fare through the brutal winter we had? I am in SE Mich and very tempted to build a lean-to style 10x16 greenhouse attached to my house's south facing wall. Do you think it would be worth the effort and expense? I would have a subterrainean race track tank housing rainbows and 2 ea 3'x10' grow beds (approx 400 gal) raised 2.5' above the 300 gal FT.

Romoshka
08-25-2014, 06:45 PM
Newbie to this site. Been researching AP for over a year and collecting bits to build a system. Now have 500L hydroton, a commercial hot tub (no idea the gallon capacity but it's big) for fish tank that I'll bury 1/2 way into the ground. My question is what thermostatic controlled propane heater have others used with success? GH will be 20X40 and my locale seldom sees temperatures below 30F. BTU rating? Reviews on all the heaters are all over the place so I'm looking for some input on which brands to use vs gravitate toward.

Aloha Don
02-27-2015, 01:46 PM
Mespe - How is your system?
I was interested to learn more about your lemon bush ?
Has anyone else grown lemon bush/tree in their AP system?