stucco's system Expansion

[stucco]

Howdy folks, I started my stucco grow bed project and wanted to share some photos. I’ve had an empty wooden box where my grow bed is supposed to be for some time now. The original plan was to put in a liner. I had some success with the ferrocement grow box so I decided to do the stucco instead. I think the stucco will cause some problems with ph and cracking while curing. To solve these problems I am going to use a waterproofing material used in e.i.f.s. or synthetic stucco. It’s kind of like spreadable rubber with a thin fiberglass mesh. Next I will use the Sweetwater epoxy paint. The only problem I can see after that is the bed will outlast the stand it sits on.

[wolfracer]

Looks great! Can't wait to see this in operation.

[wolfracer]

Stucco!
This idea has really stuck in my head. I am looking at building a much larger system and was wondering about the viability of doing something like this for a larger growbed layout. Will this be cheaper than say concrete gowbeds? What are you using for your growbed media? Would it stand up to the wieght of pea gravel? How about using this technique in the construction of the actual fish pond?

This is awesome stuff . please keep us informed on your progress.

[stucco]

Wolfracer, thanks for the compliments! I too am stuck with this in my head. In retrospect, I would have built my entire system with this technique. I used Portland mortar with coarse sand and lath. The lath takes the place of the rocks in concrete allowing a thinner, lighter and more durable coat. The tank itself will handle the pea gravel or any other type of grow media. The legs or base is what would be supporting the weight. [If it is going to be raised off the ground] My base was made thinking I was going to use an e.p.d.m. liner. I chose the grey 1 inch landscape gravel and didn’t think the liner would hold up for any length of time even though it comes with a pretty big warranty. Just want to reiterate that stucco or concrete needs to be coated with epoxy paint to alleviate any leaching, ph or cracking problems. I’m still on the fence as to what to use. There are a few brands of cistern coatings and the Sweetwater aquaculture paint from aquatic eco. Let me know if I left anything out, I’m happy to help! Jon
http://www.aquaticeco.com/

Big cistern
JtmKLVVAgbc

ferrocement tank
U7IGsG0TzUo

_jBrgVqyVLA

[wolfracer]

How hard would it be to incorporate radiant heat into this type of growbed/fish tank? Being in kansas heating and cooling are big concerns. Would it reside behind the netting that you stucco over or would you have to maybe sandwich it between layers?

[stucco]

I’ve never worked with the tubing. It doesn’t get that cold here. The stucco is very forgiving it can be applied in multiple layers by using a wall paper brush to “scratch” the material. This allows the next layer to bond. I would think that in between layers you could embed the tubing into the wet mud. This would avoid the sharp lath. I bleed just looking at the stuff :mrgreen:

[stucco]

Hello all, I started to put the new roof over the system today and before I finished, I got to see how well it works. We finally got some rain. When I got all the tools picked up and went inside my son Magnus had made me a “map of your garden” out of legos. What a nice thought. Here are some pics. Jon

[stucco]

Some more pictures. :mrgreen:

[Ironfish]

Hi Stucco,

The pictures look great! I'm very impressed with your setup.

Ironfish

[stucco]

Ironfish, Thank you! It’s still a work in progress, but still better than my first set up. Witch was great just not big enough to dent the grocery bill. I still have it in the backyard and I’ve been trying to give it away. The more people I tell about aquaponics the more people think I’m nuts.

[Ironfish]

Stucco,

You maybe nuts, but you're not alone. There a lot of us here. I'm developing my setup for a retirement business.
I have to get out of the company I'm in and get back home. When I tell people that they have very dumb looks, and the conversation stops.

Ironfish

[stucco]

Ironfish, couldn’t think of a better retirement business.

Good luck, nuts

[stucco]

Howdy folks, I couldn’t resist posting a report for today. This morning I ran out of screws so I couldn’t finish the roof and I didn’t feel like going to the home store for more with the Saturday crowds. I tested the ph in the concrete bed. It was almost where it needed to be so I decided to rush the waterproofing. Here is the first of two coats. I was also able to squeeze in three doors for the kiddie cover with some leftover wood for the roof purlins. I’ll keep you posted, Jon

[Ironfish]

Hi Stucco,

First, is that a nylon or fiberglass mesh?
Second, are you putting that under the watering coat or in between?
And is it paint or plaster for the water proofing?
I was a bricklayer for 20 yrs.

Ironfish

[stucco]

Howdy ironfish, the mesh is embedded a wax coated fiberglass and the waterproofing is a “polymer modified cement base”. It’s a sto product. I just learned that sto has an approval on the watertight coat for use as a potable water coating. Until yesterday I thought that I was going to have to use a concrete primer @125$ and epoxy paint @75$. Other than the color not matching I’m pretty happy about that.

http://www.stocorp.com/webfiles.nsf/htm ... +tb%20.pdf (http://www.stocorp.com/webfiles.nsf/htmlmedia/crd+241+242+tb%20.pdf/$file/crd+241+242+tb%20.pdf)

[Ironfish]

Stucco,

Thanks for the info. This gives me a whole new line of thought.

Ironfish

[stucco]

That stuff is not the easiest stuff to work with. It’s a good thing the rocks will be covering my hack trowel job. :)

[Ironfish]

Stucco,

No problem, most of my jobs look like that. I did ferro-cement on two wall sections of my blacksmith shop.

Ironfish

[stucco]

Ironfish, did you check out the link I posted earlier in this thread on parabolic stress skin? This one has some inspiring stuff.

http://www.flyingconcrete.com/index.htm
:mrgreen:

[Ironfish]

Stucco,

Thanks, for the website, a lot more ideas!

Ironfish

[mpugh5@aol.com]

very nice set up, if it were not for the four seasons ,i'd move south :mrgreen:

[stucco]

Thank you mpugh5! The weather here is still HOT. My system is doing better since we replaced the shade cloth. 50% shade cloth is not a good idea even thou it is used at the plant nurseries. :oops: Plants growing are Malabar spinach, lemon basil, romaine lettuce, butter crunch lettuce, red sails lettuce, jalapeño, turnips, broccoli, Collards, Brusselsprouts , kohlrabi, cabbage, Chinese cabbage, dinosaur kale. Fish growing are 200 or more tilapia, 20 or so brim and blue gill, 2 brown hobolo, 5 golden shiners, 15 koi and one sucker fish. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: jon

[wolfracer]

I noticed you are using the bell siphons, have you had any issues with these?

[stucco]

Hi wolfracer, I’ve had no problems with the bells once I figured out what works for me. The trick was a slight upward angle on the discharge pipe. I use 1” ½ for the stand pipe and a 3” bell with air line tubing for the siphon breaker. My 7’x3’ bed drains in about 2 minutes.

[wolfracer]

I think I will be using bells in my next build. I also like your stucco growbeds. How are they working out? Have you finished the waterproofing yet?

[jackalope]

I've been following this thread with interest, now I've got a couple of questions .... The link you provided for the STO product PDF specifically says it's not for potable water projects, so has it been 'improved or upgraded' since this data sheet?

Division 3
81241 Sto Watertight Coat Gray
81242 Sto Watertight Coat White
Sto Watertight Coat is a fluid applied waterproofing membrane with a low vapor permeability based on a unique combination of acrylic emulsion, Portland cement and fine fibers. Use it to waterproof all types of above- or below-grade concrete and masonry including foundations, block walls, balconies, parapets, planter boxes, non-potable water tanks and fountains.

Also, did I understand you to say that there is a rubberized stucco that would be spread on the mesh to create a thin membrane over the wood/metal? That sounds like the start of a huge FT to me ;)
I'd like to make a plywood tank that I could rubberize easily and cheaply to make a large FT.

Thanks, and I apologize if I misunderstood anything, just chalk it up to senior moments :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stucco]

Hey guys, I have finished the waterproofing. Now I’m saving for the rocks.
Jackalope,” senior moments” at least you have an excuse. :P The rubberized stucco I was talking about is the watertight coat. The watertight goes over the stucco. It is not recommended for use over wood. Watertight did get the approval for potable water usage. Here is the link.
http://www.stocorp.com/servicessto.nsf/ ... estions#R7 (http://www.stocorp.com/servicessto.nsf/view+faqs/frequently+asked+questions#R7)

If you want to build a large fish tank cheap and easy, check out the links I posted earlier in this thread on ferrocement.

[stucco]

:mrgreen: Growth from oct. 16 to nov. 3 :mrgreen:

[jackalope]

Jackalope,” senior moments” at least you have an excuse. :P The rubberized stucco I was talking about is the watertight coat. The watertight goes over the stucco. It is not recommended for use over wood.
Shucks!!

[stucco]

Hey guys, I got the auto siphons hooked up yesterday. They are working like a charm. :D

[stucco]

Some pictures of my first system.

[stucco]

A couple of bees bathing in tomato and lemon basil pollen. :mrgreen:

[stucco]

Earlier in the week we picked up a load of rock. Today we started the washing process. my helper told me “washing rock is no fun”. He stayed hard at it for a bit, but he has the attention span of a three year old and he works for lollipops.

[jackalope]

Great pics of the 'helper' - cute kid!

[stucco]

The grow beds are finished. seemed like it took forever but only a little over a month. I have carrot, turnips, Chinese cabbage and random lettuces started. :mrgreen:

[jackalope]

The grow beds are finished. seemed like it took forever but only a little over a month. I have carrot, turnips, Chinese cabbage and random lettuces started. :mrgreen:
It must be nice to live where you don't have a 9 month winter :lol: :lol:

[stucco]

How about a 9 month summer, hurricane season and tourist season? :mrgreen:

[jackalope]

How about a 9 month summer, hurricane season and tourist season? :mrgreen:
I could live with the 9 month summer, the snowbirds/tourists didn't bother me when I lived in AZ, but I don't think I could get along with the Hurricanes too well ;).

[davidstcldfl]

Today we started the washing process. my helper told me “washing rock is no fun”. He stayed hard at it for a bit, but he has the attention span of a three year old and he works for lollipops.

He's too cute Jon...the shovel is twice as big as he is ! :D 'Say', what flavor lollipops do you pay with ?????? :lol:


Jon , you forgot to mention our twice a year 'love bug' season.
For you that dont know.....they fly 'while' mating (hence...'love bugs' :) ) BUT, we don't love them ! They end up all over the front of our cars. We have to wash them off right away, because their body makeup is acidic. :( We can drive through a swarm and have thousands on the car in no time !

http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad157/davidstcldfl/lovebugs.jpg

[stucco]

Last week I saw a video on utube of a Mexican tilapia farm where they were feeding duck weed. Their tilapias were tearing it up. So this Saturday we put in a duck weed tank. I should have checked to see if my fish liked the stuff first. They weren’t too keen on it. Now there is a bunch of crap floating in the tank.

[TCLynx]

Just give the fish some time to get used to the duckweed, most animals take some time to get used to new things. 12 tilapia can clean a tank out of duckweed if they are not being fed much pellets. If you feed plenty of the food they are used to, they will probably not eat so much duckweed. However, the duckweed will help with water quality if given a chance.

[stucco]

I was hoping to make a mash out of the duckweed, soldier fly larva, flax or hemp seed and whatever else I can get in there. The boss tells me I have to come up with my own food processor. For now I have my little box filter running in the tank to get rid of the extra duckweed particles. :mrgreen:

[badflash]

Check out my DIY bead filter. Best particulate filter I've ever used and easy to clean. Beads last forever so no replacement cost.
Home Brew Bead Filter (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?109-Home-Brew-Bead-Filter)

[stucco]

That is a sweet diy filter badflash. Right now I’m working on a blue drum swirl filter stationed in the sump. Having three tanks the little box filter works well because I can move it from tank to tank.

[TCLynx]

Hope your new fish made it home OK.

[stucco]

Hey tclynx, THANK YOU! The fish made it home just fine. The fry I put in a fish tank inside have already eaten. José Cuervo and I acclimated the larger outside fish, as the boss fried the cat fish. I’m sorry if the boys were a bit excited. Between chasing them and trying to take in that insane garden -I wasn’t much for conversation. Thanks again to you, the cook and your mother for the hospitality. :mrgreen:

[stucco]

:mrgreen: Growth update :mrgreen:

[stucco]

I started a grow bed project today. It’s made of foam, fiberglass and whatnot.

[davidstcldfl]

Is that 'extra-strength' whatnots ?????? :P

Looks nice Jon !

[stucco]

Thanks Dave! It’s just some stuff that was lying around the yard. I hope it’s beefy enough to hold water. If not I can add braces or something.


:mrgreen:

[stucco]

I’ve been working on a swirl filter too. :mrgreen:

[stucco]

Hey guys, I have finished the waterproofing. ... ferrocement.
Dewd your mud work is super saweeet. It brings back memories of when i used to be a tile setter.

But my mud work always got covered up with tile. Your's is much more nicer. You've gotten me rethinking some ideas.

Most excellent. Gracias amigo.
Thanks for the compliments on the “mud work.” I’ve done quite a bit of tile work myself. I once grouted an entire high school with navy blue epoxy grout. I looked like a smurf for weeks :lol: . :idea: I think Tile would make a sweet liner :idea: . A good bargin shopper could make a wood frame tile lined fish tank or grow bed fairly inexpensively. The boss found 18x18 travertine from a lows close out bin for 1$ apiece. She called all the lows I the area and ended up with almost a full pallet. It’s too bad they are reserved for our family room. I need 5 or 6 more grow beds to be at a 2:1 grow bed to fish tank ratio. The new ones will probably be stucco, but I am exploring other material.

[jackalope]

I guess it just now registered .... I would have thought that you couldn't use concrete, stucco, or tile grout for fish tanks or grow-beds because of the lime/cement/ etc. in the mix ...... so why do people epoxy-paint the inside of a concrete FT if it's not going to harm the fish? Is it just for looks? I used to be a tile setter .... (knees are gone now), and even tho the discount tile up here in Montana isn't cheap, I could easily build a large fish tank with concrete, tile and grout .... if it wouldn't harm the fish ;)

[stucco]

Concrete tanks for drinking water have been around a lot longer than urethane sealers, and epoxy resins. I would think where you live sealing would be too protect the tank from cracks caused by freezing. For me it was just going on the side of caution cuz my tanks are only ½ of an inch thick. :idea: The tile idea seems like a winner. Maybe grout the joints with fish tank sealant. Or just buy one or three of these bad boys. http://www.octaform.com/uploads/brochur ... ochure.pdf (http://www.octaform.com/uploads/brochures/octaform-aquaculture-tanks-brochure.pdf)

[stucco]

The styro bed is almost complete. It may even hold water. It took 250$ worth of materials and 2 days labor. So it was a bit expensive to make and it is heavier than I would have guessed.

[stucco]

:mrgreen:

[davidstcldfl]

Wow Jon, You've been a busy guy ! The new GB looks nice. :D

You shared that it cost about $250....what are the deminsions of the tank ? I'm like most others...looking for the best buy for the money on GB's.

Thanks for sharring Jon.

[stucco]

Howdy, the bed is 2’x8’x 13 1/2”. At $250 for materials alone I don’t think the foam is not the most cost effective way to make a bed. For me I generally have materials leftover after my jobs. Tis my way of recycling. ;)
Ft391 40 gal for $114 is a decent buy.http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories ... -Value-Buy (http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/944/Fiberglass-Tanks-Value-Buy) 50 gal stock tanks for $70 ish I think is the best deal.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/livestock/ ... al-2229927 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/livestock/livestock-equipment/stock-tanks/stock-tank-50-gal-2229927)
:ugeek:

[jackalope]

:idea: The tile idea seems like a winner. Maybe grout the joints with fish tank sealant. Now that sounds like a plan ;)


Or just buy one or three of these bad boys. http://www.octaform.com/uploads/brochur ... ochure.pdf (http://www.octaform.com/uploads/brochures/octaform-aquaculture-tanks-brochure.pdf) As if :!: :!: You would have to loan me the million bucks from your mad money ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stucco]

If you bought one of those million dollar tanks you still have to seal the floor. :lol:

[davidstcldfl]

Hi Jon,

I do see tile on craigs list all the time. You mentioned using plywood and putting tile on it. How would you go about it Jon?.....would you seal the ply, even if it's 'exterior?....what type of thin-set would you use ? Any other suggestions ? :?: Thanks for the tips ! :)

[stucco]

Hey David, I no tile guy, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night 8-) . i would at minimum use pt plywood. Cement board is the better choice. Don’t use thin set use mastic and look into epoxy grout. I’m not sure where to buy this stuff, but it is food grade. http://www.sikaindustry.com/search.htm? ... 34&y=3#866 (http://www.sikaindustry.com/search.htm?cx=012323967052855431767%3Ardr-9lqh7zc&hl=en&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&as_sitesearch=www.sikacorp.com&q=potable+epoxy+grout&x=34&y=3#866) It may be expensive, but with thin joints it would go a very long way. :ugeek:

[davidstcldfl]

Hey David, I no tile guy, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night
LOL..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have a buddy that does 'tile'. I know he's been working on a big swimming pool job. If I get any good info, I'll share.

[TCLynx]

I've actually decided that the 100 gallon rubermade stock tanks are the cheap way to go if you don't mind deep beds (and I like deep grow beds. no need to build stands, just level some blocks and place the beds on them.) The 100 gallon stock tank is the best deal since it is only a few dollars more than the 50 gallon. You get twice the amount of filtration for the same square footage of floor space. Granted, if you are wanting more planting surface for your gravel volume, then you want the shallower beds but I figure if I have deeper beds I can always add some DWC raft tanks in the summer if I need it to use up more nitrates. I don't seem to have enough nitrates over winter so I might as well have deep beds in the cold frame.

[stucco]

The boss talked me out of the new foam growbed. She wants to use it as a wicking bed. I had already built a stand for it and had some stucco stuff lying around so another stucco growbed is borne. With all the talk about deep beds I decided I would make an extra deep one at 16”. It may even end up a fry /duckweed tank until I can afford to put the rocks in it. This summer I want to put my papaya and dwarf bananas in there, but who knows I make it up as I go. Astalapasta, stucco

[stucco]

:ugeek:The first coat always looks sloppy. Its real tricky getting the mud to stick when there is nothing behind it. :ugeek:

[jackalope]

That looks good, what do you use for framing, electrical conduit? I can't make it out for sure .......
Also, what will the final thickness be to hold that much water? It looks to be about 2x8x1.4 or so, and that would be about 167.8 gallons .... and 165 gallons @ 8.3lbs. per would be 1369.5 lbs ....... I hope your stand is 2x6's at least :!: :lol: :lol:

[stucco]

Wow jackalope I didn’t really think of it that way. The bed is more like 16” deep so even heavier than your calculations, but u were right on point with guessing 2’x8’. The deck part of the stand is 2x12 and the legs are 4x4’s 6 of them. Maybe it should have been 8. The frame is rebar tie wired to expanded metal lath. I drilled the rebar into the legs of the stand.

[jackalope]

I wasn't figuring the weight of the tank, just the water in the tank ........ I'd probably add some more strength underneath, because if your tank weighs another 800 to 1000 lbs, that could be a problem ...... of course, the wife tells me I always overbuild things ....... but they never fall down :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was just guessing at the 1.4, it's actually 1.3, so I re-calculated .... 155.82 gallons/1293.306 lbs ;) Of course, you have to figure that's 100% full - at 90% it's 140.24 gallons/1163.992lbs :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stucco]

I couldn’t imagine what that would look like :shock: if it fell over. If it does I hope i can get it on video. :lol:

[davidstcldfl]

Wow Jon. You've been busy !

I like how you drilled and dropped the rebar into the legs. That ought to beef up the side strength a good bit.
Did you just use regular stucco....or add any fibers, or maybe a wetting agent to reduce the water in the mix ?

Congrats' Jon....lookin' good. :D

[jackalope]

stucco, I figured that at 8.3 lbs .... actually the official/perfect weight is 8.346 lb. (Which could mean that you can round to 8.4) but the density of water varies with temperature, water quality and pressure, so the exact weight of a gallon of water might change a little from the number I used. I usually just round it off to 8.3 because of the minute density changes I'm not aware of. I'm no rocket scientist ;). It's a good number to round from ;).

[stucco]

"add any fibers, or maybe a wetting agent to reduce the water in the mix ?"

No I didn’t use anything other than old fashioned stucco. I should be using portland cement, but with the waterproofing I don’t see there being any problems. The stucco is free and the Portland is $10 to $14 a bag so I went with the stucco. I’ve never used a wetting agent and the fibers would not be free. I did however use a big can of elbow grease ;) :lol: :lol: .

[stucco]

Good Wishes to all of you APers out there. Hope your day is full of Joy and the best to you in the New Year. The Stucco Family

[stucco]

I beefed up the stand a bit. :mrgreen:

[stucco]

That’s some Strong garlic! It lifts rocks.
:mrgreen:

[davidstcldfl]

I beefed up the stand a bit. :mrgreen:

:D Remember that old commercial....."Where's the beef ?" .....It's in Stucco's back yard ! :lol: :D :lol:

[jackalope]

I beefed up the stand a bit. :mrgreen:
If you look at a pic of the original stand Clik ;) (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?190-stucco-s-system-Expansion/page7) (scroll down), I'd have to agree that you beefed it up ..... just a leeetle bit :!: :!:

[stucco]

I put all the tilapia in one tank reduced the flow and added this fancy pants hot water heater on a timer. The feeesh are still eating a little so I guess its working :mrgreen:

[jackalope]

I put all the tilapia in one tank reduced the flow and added this fancy pants hot water heater on a timer. The feeesh are still eating a little so I guess its working :mrgreen:

So tell us about that water heater ...... I'd like to know more about it! I need a better heating system for my tanks .... I'm trying to avoid the bucket heater/digital controller expense if I can.

I built a DIY sump/filter for my 30 Gal. tank to try to get some biofiltration action going, and it lowered the water temp for my Tilapia to 64F because it's external, and my fish shop (as I call the ex-saloon) has no heat in it ..... If it warms up some, I'll get some pics of it and show/explain how it works. I thought I was going to lose all the Tilapia in that tank because the heater couldn't keep up with the water, but fortunately I had a spare 300W submersible I had just bought, and now that I have put that to work, the water's up to 72F after a couple of hours ...... we'll see tomorrow if it will do the job, because the temps outside are 10F below Zero last I looked, and that was two hours after it was at Zero on the button ...... did I mention that I hate working up to my elbows in 64 degree water when the room temp is at Zero or below? I don't know how cold it's going to be tonite ..... it's usually about 10 degrees colder than the Lewistown Airport, where all of our NOAA weather reports come from!

[stucco]

Hey jacklope, that little heater is a 4 gal hot water heater from the home store. I’m able to run it with an extension cord. It wouldn’t keep up running constant so we added two timers, one for am and one for pm both with 20 settings. We are running 5 minutes on and 25 minutes off with a little submersible pump. I don’t have a thermometer except my hand and I just heat till they eat. This is my only problem with tilapia, but hey… it’s only a couple of days a year. :mrgreen:

[badflash]

Tilapia bigger than 4" can go a week without eating, so just warm them enough to keep them from getting sick.

[jackalope]

It was 23 below Zero last night, but the extra heater has maintained the tank at 75F, which is much better than it was! stucco, how much was that heater? the one gallon ones that I've found on the internet were $400-$600 .... way too much for what I'm thinking ;) Also, why couldn't yours run full time ..... as soon as the water heats up to the thermostat temp, it would automagically turn off the element ... right?

If the stat is able to be set (like a regular hot water heater), you could set the cutoff at 90F and if the water heat went higher than that it cuts off the power to the element, it would probably keep the water at an almost steady 85F - 90F. This is all theory, of course, but that's the way the low-limit/high-limit thermostats work on most closely set devices, like clothes dryers, water heaters, coffee pots etc. the low limit is a cut-in (supplies power) and the high-limit is the cut-out (cuts the power).

[badflash]

You can get a 1.0KW stock tank heater with a 110F cutoff for about $30.
See http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/pro ... DM503JAWXC (http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=2&mscssid=B34JS9K16J0K9LX8QKAKX3DM503JAWXC)

That is what I use. Lots simpler.

[jackalope]

You can get a 1.0KW stock tank heater with a 110F cutoff for about $30.
See http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/pro ... DM503JAWXC (http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=2&mscssid=B34JS9K16J0K9LX8QKAKX3DM503JAWXC)

That is what I use. Lots simpler.


* Thermostatically controlled
* Maintains water temperature at 100°F in a five gallon bucket
* SAFE IN PLASTIC
but then I need that $80.00 digital controller to bring it down to a tolerable temp for the fish! Wouldn't 100F be a little too warm, when the ideal temps are 82-88? Actually, I like the setup you use and I wish I could afford two or three, I just would like to find something a little cheaper ;) I'm planning on building some large growout pools with Plywood and Pool liner .... I'm getting tired of aquariums :!:

[badflash]

You can set it up on a light timer until you can afford it. When it is really cold 1 KW won't be able to get it that high any way. I have 2 KW in my basement and can only get to 75F right now and I'm a lt warmer than you. If you have a few 100 gallons of water and rock mass, the temperature changes will be slow and you can contol it with vigilance and timing changes on the on/off cycle.

100 degrees will not kill most species of tilapia as long as you have enough disolved O2. The warmer it is the lower the dissolved O2 gets, so you need lots of air stones.

[stucco]

The heater was just under $200 its 1500 watts @ 12.5 amps and it came with a plug vs. a rat tail so I could run it with an extension cord easily. This was the only hot water heater with that option. We were looking at those bucket heaters too, but slacked on doing anything about the cold until our first cold snap. Then it was too late and I needed something right then so I had to make do with what was available locally.

[jackalope]

I can get a bucket heater locally, but it goes up to 180F, and I'm not ready to eat the fish yet ;) That heater of stucco's is a bit spendy for me ..... :lol: :lol:

[badflash]

Like I said, put it on a simple timer. Adjust the on/off time until it gets close. If you check it every day it won't get carried away. The thermal mass makes the change slow and controllable.

[stucco]

My simple timers $17 a piece @ home depot.

[wolfracer]

I have one of those water heaters if you open it up (under the big blue cover) there is a control that you can adjust the max temp.

[stucco]

I have it turned all the way up.

[wolfracer]

LOL already found that hidden feature huh?

[stucco]

At first I was going to take it back, but then I found the dial. Now the little thing works fairly decent. Running the pump constant it didn’t really do much, so we added the timers’. things are good now.

[jackalope]

At first I was going to take it back, but then I found the dial. Now the little thing works fairly decent. Running the pump constant it didn’t really do much, so we added the timers’. things are good now.

So how are you timing it? how many minutes/hours on, and how many minutes/hours off? :?

[stucco]

Hey jacklope, that little heater is a 4 gal hot water heater from the home store. I’m able to run it with an extension cord. It wouldn’t keep up running constant so we added two timers, one for am and one for pm both with 20 settings. We are running 5 minutes on and 25 minutes off with a little submersible pump. I don’t have a thermometer except my hand and I just heat till they eat. This is my only problem with tilapia, but hey… it’s only a couple of days a year. :mrgreen:
:)

[jackalope]

Hey jacklope, that little heater is a 4 gal hot water heater from the home store. I’m able to run it with an extension cord. It wouldn’t keep up running constant so we added two timers, one for am and one for pm both with 20 settings. We are running 5 minutes on and 25 minutes off with a little submersible pump. I don’t have a thermometer except my hand and I just heat till they eat. This is my only problem with tilapia, but hey… it’s only a couple of days a year. :mrgreen:
:)

Somehow I missed that! :roll: :roll: Thanks ;)

[davidstcldfl]

That's a neat idea using the hot water tank as a heater Stucco. I was looking at the picture where you have the timmers plugged in....Are you manually switching the plug from the heater, back and forth between the 2 timers ?





but hey… it’s only a couple of days a year.

I SURE HOPE YOUR RIGHT.......BRRrrrrrrrr ! :shock: ... :lol:

[stucco]

I’m only switching the plug to the pump between am and pm. The heater is on a separate breaker running constant. The temp in the tank fluctuates a little like this, but the water coming out of the heater is hotter and I’m able to get the tank temp up a bit higher.

[stucco]

I went out to the system today and found one of the beds wasn’t flowing. I did some adjusting and out of the inlet came three fish blobs. Its gross…. I know, but I thought I would share anyway. The poor little guys made it through the tank to tank connection and into the koi tank where it was nice and cold so they continued on through the tank over flow which has three 90’s, two 45’s and 10’ of flex hose then into the sump where the guard on the pump had fallen off. They were sucked up thru the impeller and made it through three 1 ½” 90’s, a 1 ½” to ¾” reducer, plus a ball valve and a ¾” 90. Quite a journey… too bad they didn’t live to tell about it. :(

[jackalope]

They are sure resourceful it sounds like ;) OK, bad joke ...... Sorry you lost some of your fish ..... hopefully you've been able to plug up the problem escape routes with some plastic grid to prevent more losses ..... If you haven't yet, you can get some plastic grid at either Wally World or a craft shop ..... just look for hook rug grid/screen and cut to fit ;)

[davidstcldfl]

They are sure resourceful it sounds like OK, bad joke

Hey, they were just going 'with the flow'.....bad joke number two... :oops:

Stucco....Sorry to hear about your escapees... :(

[stucco]

Thanks for the condolences guys, but I’m not too bummed about a copula of loses. It’s just weird how the filter screen in the tank to tank connection was out at the same time as the slo drain being turned up slightly and the guard on the pump was off. I just would expect to see a dead fish stuck to the pump not lying in my grow bed. I usually have the pump in a tree pot contraption I made, but I took it down to winterize the system. And duhuhhh I also have a filter bag for the pump as well that I didn’t think of using.

[davidstcldfl]

It’s just weird how the filter screen in the tank to tank connection was out at the same time as the slo drain being turned up slightly and the guard on the pump was off.

:lol: ...Two of my buddies showed up....ya never know where you'll find them and never know when....
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad157/davidstcldfl/Kilroy.gif


KILROY AND HIS FRIEND MURPHY ..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stucco]

:lol:

[stucco]

:mrgreen: Some plant growth pictures. :mrgreen:

[stucco]

Some plant growth pictures. :mrgreen:

[stucco]

:mrgreen:

[dufflight]

You've got some good growth there.

Fish will try and go just about any where. Also watch out for keeping air stones near the sides of tanks as they think they are stuck in a hole and try and jump upstream. Aquafarm near here didn't notice a miss placed air stone but in the morning they noticed the couple of thousand fingerlings sitting next to the tank.

[jackalope]

You've got some good growth there.

Fish will try and go just about any where. Also watch out for keeping air stones near the sides of tanks as they think they are stuck in a hole and try and jump upstream. Aquafarm near here didn't notice a miss placed air stone but in the morning they noticed the couple of thousand fingerlings sitting next to the tank.

That's good to know ..... I guess i'd better move my airstones ;)

[dufflight]

I'm going to be getting some trout soon. They leave the tank if they see anything on the surface that looks like food and head for it at full speed. :D

[stucco]

Until I finish my lid. To stop the jumpers, I keep the tanks filled only half way. Some of the larger tilapia can still bounce off the lid maybe 16” up.[attachment=2:w61rxpeu]P1080095.JPG[/attachment:w61rxpeu][attachment=1:w61rxpeu]P1080076.JPG[/attachment:w61rxpeu]

[stucco]

I was trying to figure out how duflight got so many photos on one page????????? I can only do it in threes.

[davidstcldfl]

Hi Stucco. I see the carrot tops tied and hanging in the tank like you were taliking about... :D Nice looking vegies !


I was trying to figure out how duflight got so many photos on one page?????????
YES...how did he do that ? Maybe, because they are comming from the other side of the world.... :lol:

[badflash]

Dufflight-
What species was that? I've not seen this behavior with tilapia or cichlids in general. I know you can't keep tilapia "down under".


Also watch out for keeping air stones near the sides of tanks as they think they are stuck in a hole and try and jump upstream. Aquafarm near here didn't notice a miss placed air stone but in the morning they noticed the couple of thousand fingerlings sitting next to the tank.

[badflash]

He stiched them all together in one picture.


I was trying to figure out how duflight got so many photos on one page????????? I can only do it in threes.

[wolfracer]

Nice veggies !

[jackalope]

I love these threads ...... I get to see the fresh veggies all winter long, since I can't grow my own here in the winter ;) :lol: :lol:

[dufflight]

Photos are linked to Photobucket account. It saves the bandwith of the forum and allows for more photos per post.


Cod, silver & golden perch will all jump to get to better water. Mainly fish new to a tank.

[stucco]

Does anyone know what these lil critters are? Lady bugs...? I’m hoping.

[dufflight]

Looks like mealy bugs. Sap suckers.

[davidstcldfl]

http://images.google.com/images?sourcei ... CCUQsAQwAw (http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en&q=mealy+bugs&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=EqRoS9_nOMOM8AbgtoC-Bw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCUQsAQwAw)


:cry:

[stucco]

Thank guys! They do not like rubbing alcohol.

[badflash]

Dust them with DE. Kills 'em quick and very safe. Wear a dust mask though.

[stucco]

The local health food store has food grade DE.. not sure the difference... except people eat it for digestion I believe. I have seen it at the local hardware store as well, but never used the stuff. I know people use it for all kinds of crawling critters that preen..exidently it does not go to well for thier insides after a good licking... good to know there is another solution out there. As for this go... the alcohol swabs worked great.. we will see if they come back..

[davidstcldfl]

Stucco....Were you still using your garlic spray when they got on there ? I ment to ask, when I was there......how do you make your spray ?

[stucco]

Howdy, I use a garlic press on a bulb of garlic. Discard skins and add 2 cups hot water. Let sit over night, and then strain with cheese cloth. Add this mixture to 1 liter spray bottle fill the rest of the way up with water and spray. Those mealy bugs were hiding under a bunch of broccoli so they were not getting hit by the spray. After I removed the broccoli I found them and I wanted to find out if they were beneficial or not before spraying them. I did not use the garlic spray because it seems to only make the bugs uncomfortable. For the mealy bugs I used alcohol. I have found the best pest defense is my shoe.

[davidstcldfl]

I have found the best pest defense is my shoe.
I hope PETA doesn't see this... :shock: ......... :roll: .... :lol:

[badflash]

Another solution is bug juice. Take a bunch of the bugs that are causing the problem. Put them in a blender and wizz them up. Spray the strained juice on your plants. Works better than poison. Don't really know why.

[JCO]

Mealybug Control: Prune out light infestations or dab insects with a Q-tip dipped in rubbing alcohol. Do not over water or overfertilize - mealybugs are attracted to plants with high nitrogen levels and soft growth. Commercially available beneficial insects, such as ladybugs, lacewing and the Mealybug Destroyer (Cryptolaemus montrouzieri), are important natural predators of this pest. Use the Bug Blaster or hose off plants with a strong stream of water to reduce pest numbers. Washing foliage regularly will help discourage future infestations. Insecticidal soap contains potassium salts of fatty acids, which penetrates and damages the outer shells of soft-bodied insect pests, causing dehydration and death within hours. If pest levels become intolerable, spot treat with botanical insecticides.

Tip: Control ants when releasing beneficial insects. Ants feed on the honeydew that mealybugs produce and protect them from predators to ensure this food supply. :mrgreen:

[stucco]

The system is looking good considering all the days in a row with frost we’ve had. The cabbage is almost ready to start harvesting. We have been eating a lot of salads, collards, kale and carrots. It’s crazy how far a couple seed packets of the mesclun mix will go.

[davidstcldfl]

Great looking veggies.... :D

[stucco]

A link for planting seeds with the moon.
http://www.almanac.com/gardening/planti ... s/FL/Cocoa (http://www.almanac.com/gardening/planting-dates/FL/Cocoa)
:mrgreen:

[davidstcldfl]

Both sides of my faimily, always used the growing guide in the Farmers Almenac. My grandmother would have a fit, if you didn't go by it....seems to work.... :D

[stucco]

Mar 15 looks like a good day for melons, pumpkins, beans, summer squash, winter squash, potato, cucumber and corn. Good luck!
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[stucco]

:mrgreen:

[davidstcldfl]

Stucco, what's that laying on the hydroton, in the second pic ?

[stucco]

An extremely slow growing Brussels sprout plant.

[dufflight]

An extremely slow growing Brussels sprout plant.

And the worst part is when its finished growing you have to get it. :lol:

[stucco]

The boy picked another broccoli today and I had the camera ready. He isn’t fond of brussels sprouts either duff.

[dufflight]

If you cut the top bit of the broccoli it will send out fruit on the lower branches.

[stucco]

I tried that with the first 5 or so, but they ended up very small. We didn’t think it was worth the plant taking up the space for barely a hand full of veg.

[davidstcldfl]

Wow Stucco...that broc is almost as big as your son.... :D

I didn't know they got that big. I planted a bunch....I better think about some more GB's.... :roll:

[stucco]

:D for dinner,collard greens cheese grits and salad. :D

[stucco]

:D

[urbanrunoff]

nice looking veggies...!

[davidstcldfl]

YUM YUM..... :D

[stucco]

Hooray veggies!!!

[stucco]

We picked up 20 lbs. of assorted worms this weekend for our worm/wicking beds. And I added some more worms to the aquaponic grow beds. :) I thought it a good excuse to add some photos.

[davidstcldfl]

There is a whole lot of wiggling going on..... :mrgreen:

[stucco]

I have plenty if you need some.

[davidstcldfl]

:D ..."Thanks" for the offer Jon !

[jackalope]

My wormbeds went TU ..... IF we move to my son's place in Tenn., I'll probably try again ;) I hate the thought of leaving Montana, (no sales taxes, 75 MPH speed limit on country roads, etc.), but the constant cold 9 months out of the year kinda takes the wind out of your sails if you want to grow anything :( :( ......

[dufflight]

I had a worm bin inside for ages. The worms liked the temp and it reminded me to feed them.

[badflash]

I keep one in the basement. No issues. No smell flies or anything. Lots of worms. My family is finally getting into saving worm food. Great for dividing and having loads of bins come spring.

[stucco]

:)

[jackalope]

@ stucco - Show-Off :!: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stucco]

Isn’t that what this place is for? :D :) :P

[stucco]

I’ve been trying to finish the ferrocement bed. When that is finished we are considering a 1000 gallon conical bottom in ground sump/swirl filter/catfish tank. I want to work out a square foot price for the ferrocement in case someone wants one or three at their place. ;)

[davidstcldfl]

I’ve been trying to finish the ferrocement bed.

Jon, Will this be a GB for your aquaponic system....or a wicking type box ? What's your plans on sealing it ?



Jackalope is right.....we are as green, as your veggies.... :mrgreen:

[stucco]

It is going to be a deep ap grow bed for bananas, papaya, or taller stuff. I will seal it with the water tight coat that I used on the stucco beds.I’ve been slacking on this project since I started the fiberglass project. I need to chill out on the skin for a while... it seems that fiberglass is a skin irritant. :lol: Cheers, Jon

[stucco]

Pics O whats growin :mrgreen:

[stucco]

More Pics O whats growin :mrgreen:

[stucco]

I finally got one of the fiberglass beds online. :D

[davidstcldfl]

Very nice !.... :mrgreen:

[urbanrunoff]

nice... are that cucumbers that i see?
mine are coming along too, dont seem to mind high ph :)

[stucco]

Yes those are cucumbers. I’m thinking that I planted way too many, but they keep popping up in the compost and I tend too over plant my beds. :mrgreen: The ones I have in the more established beds are going off! I planted the seedlings on March 21 and we are already getting fruit. I have an heirloom type that looks like a string bean that I haven’t tasted yet.

[urbanrunoff]

wow... those are looking good.

[stucco]

The tomatoes that I’m growing right now are ones that the birds ate last year and pooped out in the yard. 8-)

[stucco]

Cucumbers like the aquaponics.

[davidstcldfl]

Looks nice Cat and Jon...... :)
Do you use salt in your system ? If you do, the cukes don't seem to mind. I've read where strawberries don't like it .

[urbanrunoff]

i'd love to see a wider shot of your growbed, to see how you "organize", layout your GB.
I have a feeling mine is going to be very chaotic once the cucumber and melons are starting to grow big.

[stucco]

My beds are very chaotic :) . I try and plant vines near the edges so I can trellis away from the beds. Other than that there is no rhythm to my planting. I’ve used salt once last fall, but that was many lettuces ago. I have strawberries growing now, but no signs of fruit. My big problem now is the squash. There is mega fruit and flowers, but the fruit keeps falling off premature. There is no sign of calcium deficiency or no yellowing on the leaves. It’s some sort of fruit setting issue.

[stucco]

:mrgreen:

[urbanrunoff]

My big problem now is the squash. There is mega fruit and flowers, but the fruit keeps falling off premature. There is no sign of calcium deficiency or no yellowing on the leaves. It’s some sort of fruit setting issue.
could it be that they are not being pollinated?

[davidstcldfl]

Stucco, It looks like Urbanrunoff is on to something....... :(

This is from the Master Gareden program at UF
http://osceola.ifas.ufl.edu/mg_faq_10.shtml#Vegcrop.1


My squash fruits get about 3-4" long, then shrivel up and die. What is the problem?

This is a pollination problem. A small squash always subtends a female bloom. It will begin to develop and may reach the size you have described, 3-4', without being pollinated. If it is pollinated, it will continue to develop. Pollination of cucurbits requires bees. Bees may not be present or they may be killed by some insecticides. Hand pollination of the female bloom can be done when bees are absent.

[badflash]

I've used a product called "blossum set" where you get no polination. You end up with seedless fruit. I've used it with squash and tomatoes
http://www.burpee.com/product/id/104911.do

[stucco]

Thanks guys! I assumed since there was fruit the plant had done the deed.

[jackalope]

There's a lot of info on the net for hand-pollinating squash and cukes ;)

[stucco]

I picked up some blossom set. We’ll see how it goes.

[dufflight]

Small paint brush works well to manualy set the flowers. Not sure whats in the spray could not find it over here.

[stucco]

Hey duff, the spray has cytokines… it’s a plant hormone. The eggplant and maters don't seem to have the same problem, just the squash. After buying two bottles of the blossom set to the tune of $22, the boss has let me know that the Verma-Plex (of which she is a distributer) contains the same things and that I had been slacking on the foliar spraying. 4oz per gallon and she doesn’t seem to be having the same issues in her wicking garden. Guess the bugs had been taking up too much of my time.
https://www.vermitechnology.com/index.p ... ux_page=19 (https://www.vermitechnology.com/index.php?show_aux_page=19)

[stucco]

Pics -o- today :mrgreen:

[stucco]

I found a gold fish that was eaten by a tilapia. :shock: I didn’t think that tilapia had it in them. When I first found it he was beat up and missing an eye. Checked on it a little later and half of it was gone. Maybe I need to feed the tilapia more.

[jackalope]

Once my Mossies got to breeding age, they quit eating the Guppies .... they all just swam around together :?

[stucco]

Well we (the boss) decided that the big ferocement bed is not in a good place. I moved it by jacking it up and putting pipes under it, but the frame took a beating. I decided to get rid of it.

[davidstcldfl]

:( :o

[stucco]

It’s ok. It made room for a really large sump.

[davidstcldfl]

:D





Fiberglass ?

[jackalope]

It’s ok. It made room for a really large sump.

And are you going to have to move that one too? j/k :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stucco]

:D





Fiberglass ?
It’s gonna be ferrocement. The reason it’s so large [1500 gal.ish]… I want to put a t with a ball valve on the rain gutter to collect all that free water I’ve been wasting. I’ve been using a lot of amquel due to evaporation and our city water having chloramines. The other day I was adding water and left the hose on. The hose fell into the sump and ran for about 15 minutes. :cry: So far I’ve lost about 40 fish mostly the koi and bluegill.

[stucco]

:mrgreen:

[stucco]

:mrgreen:

[davidstcldfl]

OK.....so whats the story with the new avatar ?????

[stucco]

I grew tired of the old one and wanted a photo of me, but my front side is very ugly so my back had to do. I guess the cat is out of the bag I’m one of those tattooed freaks.

[davidstcldfl]

Hmmmmmmm.....lets see.....you pay really good money to have somone stick you 5 million times with a needle....???

Don't mind me Jon.....I don't even like to pay a doctor to stick me one time...... :lol:

Besides, I hang out with an old southern boy...a retired marine. He thinks grown men shouldn't even wear shorts......there for boys, till they become men... ;)

[dufflight]

Nice tat 8-) I'm still looking for something for my back but can't find anything that I like. Not that I will be able to see it. :D

[stucco]

Nice tat 8-) I'm still looking for something for my back but can't find anything that I like. Not that I will be able to see it. :D


Thanks! I often forget it is there. That avatar pic is from tattoo international magazine. I was very happy when that came out in 1998 I think.

[stucco]

Stinking stinkbugs! I’ve never seen them this bad before. They are everywhere. We have a big bag of DE headed our way in the mail. I hope it works …the only other thing I know of to get rid of them is neem oil and I won’t put it near the ap. they don’t seem bothered by the garlic spray ether.

[davidstcldfl]

Good grief...I went to pick a tomatoe the other day, it must of had about 10 on it... :shock:

Let us know how the DE works....I'm not sure what that is....?

[stucco]

I have heard that if not treated properly they get worse every year.

[davidstcldfl]

OH GREAT... :(

[jackalope]

Good grief...I went to pick a tomatoe the other day, it must of had about 10 on it... :shock:

Let us know how the DE works....I'm not sure what that is....?

I believe he's referring to 'Diatomaceous Earth' - diatoms are microscopic sea creatures with razor-like shells, which when inhaled by or dusted onto insects, worms, etc. will cut their lungs and/or breathing apparatus to pieces, as well as other parts of their bodies! Likewise, if they eat the DE, it should cut their mouths, and stomachs all to pieces too!

We have seen DE used for fleas, etc. because they breathe through small tubes, but I've found that if you can find real talcum powder (without fillers such as cornstarch) it will plug up their breathing tubes just as easily and works faster! I believe DE can be harmful to pets and humans if inhaled, so I'd rather use talc if you are using it indoors on carpets, etc. to get rid of fleas and cockroaches!

They used to use DE in fish filters (http://www.aquariumguys.com/aquarium-diatom-filters.html) a lot, but from what I've read, it seems to be declining in popularity nowadays .... maybe it's the cost, or something else, I always thought they were the best filter I ever used ( I can't even afford one nowadays ;) !

[Emmett]

Hmm. I've never heard that DE is harmful to people or pets. The reason they're so bad for insects is because they don't clot and if they get cut they just dry out. We use it all the time for ants.

[badflash]

You should use a dust mask and eye protection when working with DE. Long term exposure, especially for smokers, can do bad things to the lungs and eyes.

[Emmett]

I suppose that's probably true for most powders. I was thinking that I should have been wearing a mask the other day while I was mixing concrete. :(

[JCO]

Diatomaceous Earth, also know as, DE is actually a naturally occurring fossilized algae. It kills all insects, snails, and slugs by causing them to die of dehydration. It is extremely effective. The problem is it kills all bugs, even the ones you want to have around like bees and lady bugs. DE can be purchased in powder form. It’s non toxic to humans and animals like dogs and cats, but wear a dust mask when applying it. Make sure to apply it on a day that you know it isn’t going to rain and wet all of your plants before dusting. This will help the dust to adhere to the leaves of the plants. Once you water again or it rains most of the DE will be washed away. :mrgreen:

[stucco]

Finding food grade de around here is difficult. We have found small bags at the health food store, but it doesn’t go along way. There is garden grade at the plant shops, but I don’t trust the fillers. That stuff is brownish in color while the food grade that people eat for digestion is white. Anyhoo we have a big bag on order should last a bit.

[badflash]

Don't sweat using garden grade. Its is just un-bleached/un-refined DE. Think of it as whole wheat vs. white flour. I use pool DE and have no problems. Remember, it is supposed to kill stuff and its basically just dirt.

BTW- if you have a closed greenhouse you can use CO2 to snuff bugs. Getting the CO2 up to 10% overnight will kill the bugs. Just be sure the air stones in your tanks are fed from outside air. There was a place in the mid-west that was making alcohol and used the excess CO2 in the greenhouses. The plants went crazy and the bugs went to their grave. Be sure to purge the greenhouse before you go in. It would snuff you too.

[Emmett]

Now the CO2 is a cool idea! It's weird that I was just talking about using dry ice to release CO2 in a baited bucket. As long as there's not a lot of air movement the CO2 will stay in the bucket. I never thought about filling a greenhouse.

[dufflight]

CO2 is good for the plants but the roots and the fish need oxygen. You can fill a bucket with sugar and water and add a little yeast to make CO2. Some people brew there beer in there greenhouse to utilize the CO2.

[stucco]

Clogged up bell siphons.

[stucco]

Aquaponic melons.

[Emmett]

OOOooooh! I've been wanting to try mellon! It's weird how you have some people say "You can only grow X Y or Z in hydro/aquaponics" and then other people that say "You can grow whatever you want."

I wonder if the difference is if they've tried or not? Did you have to do anything special?

[stucco]

Plant enuff so you and the caterpillars can have some. :mrgreen: The only thing that has not done well in my ap system is sage. I have grown a lot of things one wouldn’t think would do well in ap like garlic, rosemary, carrot. I have even seen jicima .I haven’t tried potatoes yet.

[davidstcldfl]

I haven’t tried potatoes yet.
Hmmmm...? I had some sweet potatoes trying to sprout. I cut off 'that part' and stuck it into my gravel bed. It's been several days....I noticed yesterday, 'sprouts' on one are turning green and it must be growing (?) It'll be interesting to see what happens....????

[stucco]

Aquaponic sunflowers.

[badflash]

The only plants that won't do well in a flood/drain AP are ones that don't like wet roots. Sage is a desert plant. The problems that are reported with most standard garden plants can be resolved with nutrients and increasing the drained time to get more air to the roots.

If you want to grow plants with the roots flooded full time, there is a limited number of plants you can use.

[dufflight]

Paw Paw doesn't like its feet wet but seems to go mad in AP.

[Ironfish]

Hi Dufflight,
Is that the same Paw Paw that we have? The paw paw is a fruit bearing under story tree. Is that the one?

Ironfish

[dufflight]

They call them Paw Paw(Carica papaya) over here.

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/dufflight/DSC02350.jpghttp://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/dufflight/2010/DSC02520.jpg
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/dufflight/2010/DSC02518.jpghttp://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/dufflight/2010/DSC02434.jpg

And this is how big they can get. This one is Murray Hallam's.
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/dufflight/Pawpaw.jpg

[stucco]

I have some paw paya growing from seed. They took a long time to sprout, but it is seems they are going fast now. An old farmer from Nicaragua told to cut off the ends of the fruit and remove the seeds from the middle for an increased chance of female plants (we’ll see). I have 25 or 30 of these started… so if you want some David let me know. I also have more of the bamboo and a couple of types of ginger that I need to get out of the yard?

[Ironfish]

That's cool, It is not the same as the paw paw we have up here in the north.
If I had warmer temps. for longer it would be fun to try.

Ironfish

[davidstcldfl]

so if you want some David let me know

Hmmmmm...? Not sure, maybe ironfish's real name is David too ? I hope you were offering us both some..... :D


'Cool'....thanks Jon ! Yes, I'd like to try some of the aussie's paw paw. Ginger would be neat too.

The buddha that you gave me, got 'bit' pretty good, by our freezes. I trimmed the main stocks back. It's going nuts now...with all the 'pooh cocktails', I've been giving it.... :D


Ironfish can grow the American paw paw in Ohio.....may be too hot here (?) I think they are 'full size' trees though....up to 25 feet tall.

[stucco]

I have the Caribbean red variety which I think is the same if not very close to the aussie type. I typed in paw-paya because I think they call the same plant by a different name… and I think that created some confusion…sorry! I was talking to you (davidstcldfl) when I offered some up, but if ironfish wants some…he can pm me. I started these from the center seeds recommended by my friend from Nicaragua. It took a while to get them going. The seeds were saved since last year and dried then started early this year- some took immediately while others have sprouted more recently in the heat. I have started many seeds over the years, but all have turned out to be male plants and therefore no fruit. There are both full sized and dwarf varieties of papaya-as well as self fertile- I have one of each of these in my yard. It is odd that they do so well in the aquaponics since you are right… they are known for getting root rot- it seems they need to get some size to them before transplanting into the ap system because I have lost a couple of small ones….. but as for the heat- they are a tropical tree and therefore love it.
As far as the ginger, what I have is not –I don’t believe- edible … I am just rearranging some plants in the yard to make more room- but if you would like some of the decorative stuff- I will set some aside when I go to rearranging.

[davidstcldfl]

In Murray's new video....he had a red and a 'golden'.... I think thats what he called it.
Do you have to have a male and female (aussie) paw paw to get fruit ?

Yes, I'd still like the ginger. Maybe some more bamboo too...... :) Thank's !

[dufflight]

The Red's we use are Bi and the golden I think you get m f & bi. I'm trying Babaco(champagne fruit) they are more cold tolerant than Paw Paw.

[stucco]

I worked on my sump project today. Was able to weld the frame for the top and mount it. If all goes well tomorrow I will put on the lath and add the first coat of mud.

[stucco]

There are so many different varieties of the papaya tree. We bought the dwarf red from a local supplier, then the bi red standard from the rare fruit tree sale this year. We also bought a strawberry tree and a jujube- they are both odd fruit but supposed to be very good.
Unfortunately, most of the bamboo is gone. I only have one pot left. It was taking up so much room and I needed it out of the way asap. David (st cloud), you are welcome to the last container if you can come to pick it up soon. As far as the ginger, that project has not been accomplished yet, but if you let me know when you are coming – I can get some together for you.

[Ironfish]

Hi Stucco,

I really like your sump project. It looks like 500 - 600 gal? Is it tying everything together? How do your neighbors like you being a gopher?


Ironfish

[davidstcldfl]

most of the bamboo is gone. I only have one pot left. It was taking up so much room and I needed it out of the way asap. David (st cloud), you are welcome to the last container if you can come to pick it up soon. As far as the ginger, that project has not been accomplished yet, but if you let me know when you are coming – I can get some together for you.

Great...Thanks Jon ! I sent you a PM

[stucco]

System Update:
The current concrete sump project will be the main water collection area off the detached garage. The sump is 6’ x 3.5’ deep and will hopefully retain enough water thru the rainy times to accommodate system top off.
Our DIY system has been thru the ringer this season:
Squash bugs have been voracious this year, but even still we have had an abundance of cukes- even made some pickles- until we had to salt the system. Can’t seem to keep the bugs off the melon fruit. Our eggplant has done extremely well and we have been eating roasted eggplant and garlic dip along with roasted lasagna. Bell peppers are doing well, as is culantro. Sunflowers are loving it. We had purple mustard greens. But above all, tomatoes have been the most prolific this summer. We have a single cherry tomato that has grown up and across the system then back and is still supplying us will fruit everyday. Indeterminate, though harder to manage, have been much more active and between the wicking gardens and AP we have dehydrated an entire container of maters for sundried pesto in the fall. We have a heat tolerant lettuce, though slow growing, has not bolted even in this heat. Okra, more peppers and melons have gone in for late summer harvest.
Rain has been extremely acidic lately, and since we have had so much of it- we have seen a serious swing in the system PH. The fluctuation of PH as well as, I believe, harm to the bacterial colony has been detrimental to the tilapia- as well as the brim and koi.
Recently, I dropped the hose in the system when filling barrels with city water for treating. The fish did not fair well and we lost a number.


:mrgreen:

[stucco]

Hi Stucco,

I really like your sump project. It looks like 500 - 600 gal? Is it tying everything together? How do your neighbors like you being a gopher?


Ironfish
My neighbors haven’t caught me on this project. I made the top of the sump small so I conceal it with potted plants. The plan is to tie the diy system with the new fiberglass one that is still at the manufacturer so I can do away with the old shallow sump that has an evaporation problem. I was shooting for 1000 gallons, but I think you are right… 500 – 600 is what I was guesstimating.

[davidstcldfl]

The sump is 6’ x 3.5’ deep
740 gals.....full to the rim.... :D

[stucco]

This is what I did this morning.

[Emmett]

That's interesting, do you have this book? (http://www.amazon.com/Water-Storage-Emergency-Use-Ferrocement/dp/0964343363)
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61zVpG9JwyL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

[stucco]

I do not have that book, but it does look interesting. Most of the info I have gathered was from that old internet thingy and being a stucco guy for 20+ years.

[stucco]

I found this girl in the garden today.

[davidstcldfl]

Little Miss Muffet Sat on a tuffet. Eating her curds and whey. Along came a spider. And sat down beside her, And frightened Miss Muffet away!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[wolfracer]

I have to say Stucco that is simply awesome.

[JCO]

I don't have any pictures of them, but here in NE Fl, Black Widows no longer come in just black, they also come in light to medium brown and tan and the venom is supposedly more potent than the Black. :shock: :o

They are thick as fleas on a stray dog around here...I kill them all the time. I have become so aware of them, I don't have to see them, I recognize the shape of their egg sack on webs. :mrgreen:

[dufflight]

They look like the red backs we have out this way. But ours don't kill, just hurt like hell for a few weeks.

[JCO]

Naturally, since you are down under...the red spot would be on their back instead of the belly.... :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

[stucco]

We have the browns too, lots of them. They are more poisonous than the blacks, but they won’t defend their nest like the blacks. We also have a lot of the brown recluse. We were told by a spider expert/ exterminator guy we called out, “There is no way you have both! They don’t like the same environment. People get the recluse confused with the wolf spider all the time.” After a walk around the house he changed his mind. :roll:

[Emmett]

Well on the plus side, you shouldn't have too many bugs in your house :P :? Just make sure you don't end up with fewer people in your house! :shock:

How thick are the walls of your concrete holding tank? Did you use any special mix to make it water tight?

[stucco]

Since the water hose incident this has been a common site in the morning. It’s been maybe two months and so far I’ve lost around 50 fishies. Any suggestions… or are they all doomed.

[stucco]

How thick are the walls of your concrete holding tank? Did you use any special mix to make it water tight?
Hey dewd, I guess I missed your question. The tank walls will be about 3” the tank at that thickness will hold water, but I will be using the watertightcoat that I used on my growbeds Click Here (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?190-stucco-s-system-Expansion/page2) to prevent leaching and ph swings. :ugeek:

[badflash]

Any suggestions… or are they all doomed.

What is your water temperature, and how much air are you pushing in those tanks? The issues with the water hose should be over by now. This is likely something else.

[stucco]

I have those backup type air pumps going in each tank and the outflow from the grow beds really churns the water in the sump a lot. The temp… I haven’t measured, but seem cool compared to the air temp. Ill measure and get back to ya. Another thing is the ph. I’ve started to use rain water instead of the treated city water so the ph has swung down in the 5s a coupla times. It usually stays at 6 to 6.5 though.

[davidstcldfl]

Sorry to hear about more fish deaths... :(

Did the deaths start, 'after' you started using rainwater ?
How about the blue rain barrel...is it new....what was it used for ?
How fast are your PH changes happening ?
How much of a differance between your systems PH and the rainwater ?
Maybe, in order to keep the PH 'more stable'....treat the rain water to match the system's PH, 'before' adding to the system (?)

Your collecting the water off of the fiberglass roof panels over your set up. I wouldn't think your getting anything from them ? I have read, not to use metal roofs to collect rain water, they say you can get metals built up in the water. I wonder if, the rain it's self, has something in it ?

Going by what I've read and have seen ......fish like a 'higher' PH, plants like a 'lower' PH. In Murray's SECRETS dvd, he recommends between 6.5 and 6.8. Need it low enough, so the plants can use the differant nutes/minerals.
Here's a ph chart showing the ranges....
Effects of PH (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?378-Effects-of-PH)