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JCO
07-30-2013, 09:58 AM
OK, commercial Aquaponics has been cussed and discussed many times here and there on this forum so I thought it was time to put out the challenge to all the members. :geek:

Let's say you have the money to purchase 20 acres of land for this project.

Here are the questions at hand:-

1) How important is the location of the Com/AP sys. geographically relative to success?

2) What style of greenhouse is best suited for a truly large Com/AP sys.?

3) What sort of heating/cooling system to be used?

4) Where do you house the fish...inside/outside or a combination of both?

5) What fish/crustaceans do you raise?

6) What veggie/s to grow to produce the most profit?

7) How do you market your products?

8) Do you shift crops for winter/summer?

9) How much capitol is needed for an initial start up?

10) What time frame from start up to first product/s ready for sale?

11) How many persons needed to accomplish success?

Please feel free to chime in with more questions but please number them in sequence.

When you answer a question, please list the number of the question that you are responding to. I know it's being a little restrictive however I am in hopes it will give the discussion more structure.

As for responses to responses, well we'll just have to do the best we can do to keep it all together. 8-)

I realize some of these question are very general in content but that's where the challenge comes in. It is up to us to figure this out piece by piece. :mrgreen:

keith_r
07-30-2013, 10:41 AM
1. i'd say the location is going to determine all of the other factors so i'd rate it as number 1 priority
2. that's going to depend on the location.. i get pretty chilly winters, and wouldn't need the same kind of gh someone in florida would need..
3 i'd use as much stored energy as possible (partially bury everything), but again, that's because of my location
4. for me.. the fish species would determine location.. with yellow perch i could probably do both, a warmer water fish would be inside tanks
5. yellow perch and probably crayfish, but the crayfish would mostly be feed for the yp, probably try hybrid striped bass.. and a few sturgeon
6. i'd have to investigate the market more, but i'd probably go with specialty items if selling to restaurants etc..
7. get out and sell!
8. in stages, for my ag zone, but expanding starting times with the gh
9. LOTS
10. startup time.. depending on what the first crop is could be 6 weeks before produce is selling, probably a little longer, this will depend on what you're growing, fish, i'd have multiple tanks with multiple stages of growth (fish graders are an important tool), but if planned right, could be selling perch immediately

11 2 full timers and 2 part timers

i'll try to elaborate later...

JCO
07-30-2013, 12:01 PM
keith, that's at good start...now go back and elaborate thoroughly with particulars on each item you listed. :geek:

Think of it as your actual project where you live and be specific on each item, don't generalize.

That's what has brought us to this point.

Most of what you have said has already been posted somewhere on the forum. Be original and outspoken in your thinking. :mrgreen:

Aloha Don
07-30-2013, 06:28 PM
1)Location is very important and will determine most of the other factors listed here. I like my current location of Hawaii. Although it is not a business-friendly state, the temperature is mild all year, insect problems are minimized, solar panels maximized, pretty constant trade winds will allow wind turbines to provide air, and big green houses are not really needed or the need to heat area. I am toying with the idea of having a shipping container to house FT, clarifier and filters will be placed in this insulated building with shade cloth above and small AC inside...That way the lettuce will always be getting nice cool water.

2)In this type of environment (from #1) a simple greenhouse that keeps direct sunlight off and allows us to not trounce through the mud as we harvest and maintain system is all that would be needed.

3)Stated in #1. no need to heat but lettuce thrives in cool better (from what I have read)

4)FT will be inside insulated AC environment. The AC should not have to do much work because of the stability the water provides to the area.

5)Tilapia would be the fish of choice. Restaurants, china town, and other small stores love tilapia here. JCO also has me thinking of Koi....Lot of Asian population here that like this fish and they have $$$.

6)The primary cash crop (backbone) would be lettuce. Once we have the backbone in place and start making consistent money then we would like to expand to other specialized markets. Grow less and demand more money. Maybe get into the sprouts/micro green arena or produce a specialty item that we can market....not sure yet...still toying with some ideas... The point is though, make sure the backbone crop can sustain itself and provide for the expansion.

7)Marketing is scary to me...we do have 2-3 major distributors here on island that can act as the funnel for our product but using distributers also means settling for a reduced price. To sell directly to health food supermarkets, exercise facilities, specialty stores and farmers markets could mean we get more money for our product but it also means more work. Have to weigh it out ...count the cost...

8)Don’t think this is necessary here in Hawaii. Keep the backbone crop growing and tinker to find ways to increase the yield...misters, extra air, etc...

9) Initial startup money is tricky. Have been looking on-line for systems to order and just put together here but they are quite pricey and shipping to Hawaii is crazy.... building our own system is more cost effective but requires more time and energy to get her up and working....Time will be in shorter supply because I cant quit the day job --YET. But I think building your own system is better.

10) We are initially thinking of doing HP to get things going until we can build and cycle the system....then flush and transfer everything to AP. If we can do it this way, we should be able to build the germination/sprouting tables fast to get the seeds started and then work on the growing systems in time to transfer the seeds....(please excuse me if my terminology is off. This is what is going through my head at this time...) This should provide first harvest within 6 weeks and change to and expand to the AP in 3 months.

11) Initially we are thinking 3 people for the backbone system but once we get to expanding we are looking at maybe 2 more people.....still working on this and wont probably know until we are up and running and expanding....First priority is getting the money flowing constantly so I can quit my day job... ;-)

Aloha Don
07-31-2013, 03:43 PM
This thread has been up for a couple of days and I am surprised more people have not chimed in with their ideas/dreams/challenges/goals.... :shock:
Thought for sure 15 Mules would have given some of his great ideas.... :idea:

JCO
08-01-2013, 12:02 AM
Don't know what to tell you Don. I, like you, thought this would be a topic of great interest to all, my bad... :!: As for 15mules, he's on his way home from South America...probably there by now, just resting up and getting his feet on the ground. I expect him soon. As for the rest, I at a loss. :mrgreen:

davidstcldfl
08-02-2013, 09:28 AM
1- The location is important for commercial...closer to an urban area is best.

My friend and I are getting ready to do a small commercial set up. We are looking at some property in Orlando. It actually is zoned for 'AG'
Here, the diversity of folks is so great, someone will want to eat whatever we raise....even carp/koi... :lol:
The location is in an area where folks with a' bigger' budget for (organic) food lives.

2- We will have access to a building...48 x 20 some feet wide. . It will be for greens only. Will either use T 5 or 8's. We plan on a shallow water raft system....using worm tea...made with water from an AP system.

3- The building...We will insulate and cool it during the summer. Using AC.
However, we may consider trying to cool the building using water from the lake, in a chiller type set up. The lake is supposed to be 30 ft. deep...I'm not sure of the temperature at the lower level..?

The building already has solar panels...11 KW.... 8-)

8-We will have shade houses for other stuff to use year round.

7 - The goal, is 'mostly' to have stuff for those working there and investing in it. The extra will be sold.
We are considering an organic cert. I think it's too much money. But the main investor wants to try to sell to the health food stores.
(1) We do have a 'Whole foods' just a few miles away and many more in the area


It will be more then just 'aquaponics'. Most of the veggies will be grown using vermiponics. That way we can use organic pest controls that we couldn't in a true ap system...like neem oils. It's tuff in FL....we have just about every plant eating bug and every type of plant disease.


We will also raise rabbits, chickens (meat and for eggs) and hopefully a bee hive or 2.

More later...running out of time on the library's computer... :roll:

dead_sled
08-06-2013, 07:52 AM
My wife and I recently purchased about 13 acres of land, so I will use this for the basis of my answers. Also, I am in South-central Nebraska.

1) How important is the location of the Com/AP sys. geographically relative to success?
Location can definitely plays a major role in operations. This will influence everything from plants grown to how the structures are built. It will also be a factor in prices (labor, market price, utilities, taxes, etc). We received a good deal on the land, so this is where we are at. :lol:

2) What style of greenhouse is best suited for a truly large Com/AP sys.?
Initially we will be building hoop houses. I am sure that there are better ways to do it. I made this decision based on cost, construction time, I can build it myself, and there are other commercial growers in our area that have success with these. Also, a building permit is not needed because it can be considered a temporary structure. :mrgreen:

3) What sort of heating/cooling system to be used?
My initial thoughts are to use a combination solar/wood fired hydronic system that will heat the ground. Cooling will be done by ventilation and evaporative cooling.

4) Where do you house the fish...inside/outside or a combination of both?
The fish will be housed inside. I am thinking of putting them on the north end of the greenlhouses.

5) What fish/crustaceans do you raise?
I plan to start with koi and perch. I am concerned with maintaining a proper temp for warmer water fish. If possible, I would like to add freshwater prawns. Even if it is just a seasonal product.

6) What veggie/s to grow to produce the most profit?
I am leaning toward herbs and greens to start.

7) How do you market your products?
There are a few options that I am considering: farmers markets, stores, and csa.

8) Do you shift crops for winter/summer?
Yes. Definitely have to plant to maximize the changing seasons. The system could be modular and sized for the seasons (output = more for warmer, less for colder).

9) How much capitol is needed for an initial start up?
Still finalizing design and calculating. May have to take my shoes off. This could be more than $10. :mrgreen:

10) What time frame from start up to first product/s ready for sale?
Possibly 3 months.

11) How many persons needed to accomplish success?
I am not exactly sure. I am planning to ease into it, building as I have cash. The labor will be added as needed.

Aloha Don
08-06-2013, 12:46 PM
Dead_sled - Of the 13 acres you have, how much land are you dedicating initially to growing?
What do you plan to grow out to?
I wish I had that land over here...
thanks for your input to this

dback
08-06-2013, 08:38 PM
Maybe I can offer something here. I work with some of the largest growers in the US and have supervisory experience in retail produce. I'll only address those I'm comfortable with.

1) Location is 'the' critical issue. Climate, work force, business friendly government, energy costs, retail market proximity, etc. etc., will all play a hand in ultimate success or failure.

2) Concrete.......I see you are located near Jacksonville......you don't want the first tropical storm to relocate you to Georgia. Yes I'm joking......sort of......losing a crop is one thing, losing the entire operation is something else. Goes back to #1.

6) The 64 thousand dollar question....a Yuma, Ariz. lettuce grower has a great year when a southern Florida lettuce grower has a complete failure. Every cantaloupe grower from California to Florida files bankruptcy when a Colorado grower has a listeria outbreak as "Harriet Housewife" won't touch ANY melon with a ten foot pole in that scenario. If it was me......I might look at a line of 'herbs' for restaurants???????? I dunno!

7) 20 acres may be large in the AP world but barely qualifies as a parking lot in the world of agriculture. I would think a "unique" crop or a "unique" market will be necessary. "Organic" will not do it as every/most large farms have dedicated 'organic' product lines that you would necessarily be competing with. Were I attempting this, I would target restaurants, farmers market, etc. or better yet, smaller wholesale produce companies who supply these types of businesses.

8) The trend in Agribusiness is to specialize and give a consistent supply. Take Del Monte Fresh Produce (Coral Gables, Fl.) cantaloupe for example. They start the year in Costa Rico/Guatemala to Florida/Southern Ariz. to Georgia/Central Ariz to Central California/Georgia and then start south again to provide Costco, Walmart etc., with a year around supply of melons. This reduces their exposure to total crop failure and increases the chance of hitting a firm 'market'. IMO, you could do the same (to some extent) in a 'climate controlled' facility. This is only one example of many I could give........again.....IMO, 'unique' is the key.

9) Just my experience.......total up every expense you can think of......double that figure and you 'might' be close. Keep in mind that there are "MANY" new regulations on the food industry implemented or about to be implemented under the guise of 'National Security', 'Anti-Terriosm', 'Food Security', Chain of Custody that make it ever more difficult for the "Little Guy". Very costly in their implementation.

My .02 cents.......and about all it's worth.

Aloha Don
08-06-2013, 09:35 PM
dback - welcome to the forum and thank you for that very thought-out and thought provoking post...
I believe the thing that will hurt the small farmer the most are those government regs...
All those other items can be overcome but the constantly changing regulations are helping the big guys and hurting us...
Thanks again for your insight

JCO
08-07-2013, 12:57 AM
dback, where are you located, I would like to speak to you more about your experience. That was the purpose of this thread to begin with. :mrgreen:

francois
08-07-2013, 01:33 AM
Hi dback
thanks for this post
makes me think


Maybe I can offer something here. I work with some of the largest growers in the US and have supervisory experience in retail produce. I'll only address those I'm comfortable with.

1) Location is 'the' critical issue. Climate, work force, business friendly government, energy costs, retail market proximity, etc. etc., will all play a hand in ultimate success or failure.

2) Concrete.......I see you are located near Jacksonville......you don't want the first tropical storm to relocate you to Georgia. Yes I'm joking......sort of......losing a crop is one thing, losing the entire operation is something else. Goes back to #1.

6) The 64 thousand dollar question....a Yuma, Ariz. lettuce grower has a great year when a southern Florida lettuce grower has a complete failure. Every cantaloupe grower from California to Florida files bankruptcy when a Colorado grower has a listeria outbreak as "Harriet Housewife" won't touch ANY melon with a ten foot pole in that scenario. If it was me......I might look at a line of 'herbs' for restaurants???????? I dunno!

7) 20 acres may be large in the AP world but barely qualifies as a parking lot in the world of agriculture. I would think a "unique" crop or a "unique" market will be necessary. "Organic" will not do it as every/most large farms have dedicated 'organic' product lines that you would necessarily be competing with. Were I attempting this, I would target restaurants, farmers market, etc. or better yet, smaller wholesale produce companies who supply these types of businesses.

8) The trend in Agribusiness is to specialize and give a consistent supply. Take Del Monte Fresh Produce (Coral Gables, Fl.) cantaloupe for example. They start the year in Costa Rico/Guatemala to Florida/Southern Ariz. to Georgia/Central Ariz to Central California/Georgia and then start south again to provide Costco, Walmart etc., with a year around supply of melons. This reduces their exposure to total crop failure and increases the chance of hitting a firm 'market'. IMO, you could do the same (to some extent) in a 'climate controlled' facility. This is only one example of many I could give........again.....IMO, 'unique' is the key.

9) Just my experience.......total up every expense you can think of......double that figure and you 'might' be close. Keep in mind that there are "MANY" new regulations on the food industry implemented or about to be implemented under the guise of 'National Security', 'Anti-Terriosm', 'Food Security', Chain of Custody that make it ever more difficult for the "Little Guy". Very costly in their implementation.

My .02 cents.......and about all it's worth.

dback
08-07-2013, 08:00 PM
Hmmm......I did introduce myself a couple of months ago but I don't see any sign of the post......not important.

JCO....I am headquartered and live in Phoenix but we work throughout central and southern California (San Joaquin and Imperial Valleys), all of Arizona and much of New Mexico. With so many years in the industry, I have friends and contacts throughout the US.....even had a Blueberry grower fly me to Maine last year to look at some work...little too far for me, though the summer climate was certainly appealing. At one time or the other we have worked with farms in most of the western states.......who ever has the money to pay their bills :oops:

Don.....thanks for the kind words. Regulations (even the necessary ones) will definitely be a burden to both large and small growers/packers.....more so to the smaller grower, not by design but rather the simple fact that implementation and compliance costs will essentially be the same whether you grow 20,000 acres or 20 acres. Fortunately, at least for the time being, the smaller grower can simply "stay under the radar".... 20 acres of AP may make that a difficult proposition.

I have been reading this forum for several months now with great interest....even working on the major components to start a fairly good sized system myself. I believe all eleven of the OPs original questions were good and there is a solution to each.....Personally, from my experience I'm afraid that two questions have not been asked (or I missed them) if someone is desirous of going commercial.

12) How will you meet 'quality control' levels established by numerous government agencies for possible exposure to, who knows what, pathogen or parasite (again 'possibly') present in a FT affluent? With terms like 'e coli', 'salmonella' and 'listeria' sending chills down the spine of every grower, packer and retail outlet in the US......describing a functioning AP system, may not/probably won't, be well received by many retail outlets. I have seen growers remove literally hundreds of decades old trees just to lower bird populations to reduce possible fecal matter contact on produce. "Barnyard" has become a thing of the past without first going through a thorough and complete composting process. Not so many years ago every dairy in California's San Jouquin valley grew almond trees.....it was a great way of disposing of barnyard and dead day-old calves.......that came to an end when Kirkland products had to recall several million metric tons of almonds due to a Salmonella outbreak. I don't know that AP produce 'won't' meet current standards but I do wonder if they currently 'will' and for how long.

13) How to handle disease. My wife can plant Hollyhocks in our yard and they are beautiful with zero pest, parasite or virus problems, but.......plant 40 acres of the suckers and every pest/parasite/virus known to man will attack them. I grew up on a state Fish Hatchery, maintain a 350 gallon fresh water tank with a 90 gallon sump/bio system in my home for 30 years now and watched my dad work with the state fisheries biologists and conclude that it is virtually impossible to raise high density fish populations without "something" going haywire. There are solutions to each of those issues, however, most solutions to fish issues will be detrimental to the vegetable crop and/or bio system and most solutions to crop issues would be detrimental to the fish and/or bio system. In a 'commercial' operation.....disease issues would need to be addressed prior to promising any retail outlet a continuous supply of Tilapia and leaf lettuce.

My apologies for the lengthy post.

dead_sled
08-08-2013, 07:37 AM
Dead_sled - Of the 13 acres you have, how much land are you dedicating initially to growing?
What do you plan to grow out to?
I wish I had that land over here...
thanks for your input to this

I have a cleared area that is about 3.5 acres that I plan to utilize for growing. Initially, I would like to have two 20' x 100' greenhouses with AP. So, a whopping .091 acres, :lol: . I would like to grow out to 1 acre of AP, 1.5 acres of blueberries, 1 acre of flowers. The remainder of the land is either living space or used to grow meat. :mrgreen: Just need to do some fund raising to get it all going. How do you think a money tree would grow in an AP system? 8-) :lol: ;)

dead_sled
08-08-2013, 07:46 AM
Great input dback. Regulations are an area of concern for me. I believe they will be more troublesome than weather, disease, or pests. The later comes and goes, regulations are forever.

David - WI
08-08-2013, 08:49 AM
I think that the "scope" of the project (20 acres) changes the whole dynamic for what's practical or possible.

If I were considering a 20 acre project I would probably move immediately to Michigan, Minnesota, New York or (possibly) Ohio where it's legal to sell Lake Sturgeon flesh and Lake Sturgeon caviar. http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/Home/Topics/FishandFisheries/Details.aspx?PostID=1590

I think the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources could write the marketing plan for Lake Sturgeon! :lol:


Due to the precarious status of wild sturgeon populations and a high black market value, enforcement of lake sturgeon regulations has been a continuing high priority for Wisconsin Conservation Wardens since the mid-1900s. In addition, the DNR enlists the assistance of many volunteers each spring as “sturgeon guards” to provide 24-hour watch over major spawning sites along the Wolf River to protect the fish from poachers.

No commercial harvest of lake sturgeon is allowed in Wisconsin. Furthermore, to prevent illegal “laundering” of lake sturgeon into commercial markets, the legislature found it necessary to enact sec. 29.503(3), Wis. Stats., which prohibits Wisconsin licensed wholesale fish dealers from buying,selling, bartering, trading, possessing, controlling or transporting lake sturgeon regardless of the source.

In order to protect Wisconsin’s native lake sturgeon populations, the Legislature has enacted regulations prohibiting all commercialization of lake sturgeon. Historically, lake sturgeon have had a great “black market” value with the flesh and roe being highly prized. Consequently, Conservation Wardens have found it necessary to devote extraordinary amounts of time and resources to protect this valuable native species, including overt and covert investigations into
the illegal harvest and marketing of the fish.

In addition, CITIES restrictions along with collapsing sturgeon populations due to over harvest in Eastern Europe, have reportedly increased worldwide interest in North American sturgeon as a possible source of roe for high value caviar.

Because of the extremely high value and potential profits associated with a lake sturgeon trade, conservation wardens are concerned about the potential for any unscrupulous private commercial operations illegally “laundering” lake sturgeon taken from the wild.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.197.507&rep=rep1&type=pdf

JCO
08-08-2013, 09:18 AM
dead_sled


How do you think a money tree would grow in an AP system?

I have found money pits are much easier :shock: :o :mrgreen:

Aloha Don
08-08-2013, 10:58 AM
The problems with growing the money tree is that it never produces the desired fruit and constantly needs increased time, energy and wallet nutrients.....
Dont have the time, running out of energy and wallet is empty... :cry:

Roger L.
08-08-2013, 11:01 AM
Everybody thought the apple was the forbidden fruit. I believe it's your money tree Don. :D

dead_sled
08-08-2013, 11:10 AM
If I were considering a 20 acre project I would probably move immediately to Michigan, Minnesota, New York or (possibly) Ohio where it's legal to sell Lake Sturgeon flesh and Lake Sturgeon caviar. http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/Home/Topics/FishandFisheries/Details.aspx?PostID=1590


Wow! 21-39 years old before they spawn! :shock: The system would definitely be seasoned by then! A sturgeon system would be pretty awesome. The tanks would be quite large. I can't wait to see the pictures. ;) :lol: :mrgreen:

David - WI
08-08-2013, 11:41 AM
Wow! 21-39 years old before they spawn! :shock: The system would definitely be seasoned by then! A sturgeon system would be pretty awesome. The tanks would be quite large. I can't wait to see the pictures. ;) :lol: :mrgreen:
If I tried it here in Wisconsin, the pictures would all look a lot like this one:

http://wtf.thebizzare.com/images/survive-prison-1.jpg

dback
08-12-2013, 06:04 PM
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/company-s ... 6C10902022 (http://www.nbcnews.com/health/company-suspends-bagged-salads-linked-parasite-infections-6C10902022)

JCO.....this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. They have a huge "Organic" label on their package and are headquartered in the US. 99% of the women in the US will not educate themselves enough to know that the infected product came from Mexico........so......if this were a bigger news story and you have a 20 acre commercial AP setup with "Organic" leaf lettuce to sell.......you better be REAL hungry cause you're gonna eat it all. Produce growers have an inside joke......."no need to go to Vegas if you're growing produce".

JCO
08-21-2013, 12:37 AM
dback, I am very interested in your knowledge about what to grow and what not to grow commercially. I am looking at constructing a 3,000 sq ft green house this winter and hopefully have it ready for the spring and I am struggling with what to grow that I can generate cash from without having to worry about the government.

I have considered about every veggie you can name. Also house plants, flowers and even Japanese Maples from seed.

So far most of the things I have come up with seem too specialized and will take an individual interested particularly in that item before it will sell, Japanese Maples for example, thus limiting my ability to sell to a large portion of the population with continuous repeat business.

So PLEASE enlighten me....US with your knowledge of this malady I...WE are facing. Inquiring Minds Want To Know! :mrgreen:

dback
08-24-2013, 12:38 PM
JCO.....I have thought long and hard about this exact subject for MANY years......unfortunately, still don't have the answer. This is a discussion I would love to participate in however. As I said before, I have always thought a line of herbs would be a possibility.......establish a relationship with a number of 'high end' restaurants or a small produce company and see where that might go. Herbs are (for the most part) 'bullet proof' and organic would be a big selling point to many.

Another possibility would be growing seedlings for transplant. "Stand" is a major player in ultimate 'yield' on any crop. When a farmer talks about "stand", he is referring to the number of seed that germinated and made it to first leaf. If he has huge portions that did not make it for any reason.....then he says he has a poor "stand". Many farms will contract green houses to grow 'transplants' to plant in the empty spots to improve their 'stand'. Not going to get rich but it's a thought. It takes 4400 seedlings on cantaloupe (depending) at .04 cents per to do an entire acre. That's only $176.00 an acre. Some growers try to push the early (especially) markets with transplants so there is a market there but that is confined to only some crops. Lettuce growers for example don't do that.......they plant heavy and then thin if necessary. I don't know how you would work it out with the GBs to keep them functioning correctly.

While I think it would be feasible to grow transplants.....there will be lots of headaches......timing is critical, managing GBs would take some real expertise and researching the growers 'mechanization' requirements would all need to be addressed.

I have always believed a niche market of some sort would be the ticket.....something like a new or 'research' crop like Lesquerella or Guayule possibly. The 'research' guys will sometimes use private green houses when not using Universities or USDA facilities. A crop like 'Lesquerella' would not work as the grower will simply plant several pounds per acre to get the stand and some of it is grown like alfalfa......flooded. Any crop (Lesquerella) grown to completion (fruit or seed) in a green house would by necessity, need to 'not' require pollination unless you are going to hand pollinate it each day. Guayule on the other hand would be a possibility in the southwest as it will all be started in green houses and then transplanted, but the companies I am familiar with have their own facilities.

I'd love to hear you folks thoughts.

winger4647
09-14-2013, 04:24 PM
OK, commercial Aquaponics has been cussed and discussed many times here and there on this forum so I thought it was time to put out the challenge to all the members. :geek:

Let's say you have the money to purchase 20 acres of land for this project.

Here are the questions at hand:-

1) How important is the location of the Com/AP sys. geographically relative to success?

2) What style of greenhouse is best suited for a truly large Com/AP sys.?

3) What sort of heating/cooling system to be used?

4) Where do you house the fish...inside/outside or a combination of both?

5) What fish/crustaceans do you raise?

6) What veggie/s to grow to produce the most profit?

7) How do you market your products?

8) Do you shift crops for winter/summer?

9) How much capitol is needed for an initial start up?

10) What time frame from start up to first product/s ready for sale?

11) How many persons needed to accomplish success?

Please feel free to chime in with more questions but please number them in sequence.

When you answer a question, please list the number of the question that you are responding to. I know it's being a little restrictive however I am in hopes it will give the discussion more structure.

As for responses to responses, well we'll just have to do the best we can do to keep it all together. 8-)

I realize some of these question are very general in content but that's where the challenge comes in. It is up to us to figure this out piece by piece. :mrgreen:

I can't comment too much on the list as I have very limited experience with this all including farming. I will comment on:

#2; I am going to build a greenhouse myself next year and would love some feedback on DIY's.
#3; I would use solar heat tubes and water storage bins inside the greenhouse for heat or if using concrete and stone underneath the G/H run sufficient piping to transfer the heat from the solar tubes to the "heat sink" under the greenhouse. The storage bins would be the cheapest way to store heat in quantity. As far as cooling is concerned I would think natural ventilation would have to do it, I can't conceive of cooling a glass (or plastic) building with the sun beating down on it. Kinda like cooling the outdoors UNDER A MAGNIFYING GLASS :lol: :lol: Not that it is not done when in the A/C business I actually had a customer wanting to cool a very large outdoor space under an awning in Ft. Lauderdale. He though had more money than sense and yeah he went through with it. If specialized plantings were to be kept in an insulated building to keep cool now you have to deal with the cost of grow lighting.
#7; I have had to deal with the buyers of the "big box" stores and they are one PIA to deal with. Don't know unless you are really big if you could afford to do business with them. In many in the warehouses there are fees to "I'll call it store" your product there before it is distributed. I don't know how these perishables would be sold to them (terms) but if there are any guarantees connected you could get killed in returns. Places like Walmart actually like you to pay them to sell your product ... J/K... but almost that bad. Sometimes there are vendors that directly sell produce to the stores as in my case but now we are talking a delivery truck and driver. I would either buy at the market each morning or from the supplier that made his rounds each week. If I was selling I would stick with smaller stores where you can deal directly with the owner or Produce Manager but then it will reduce the amount you can sell. As I have a local small Organic Grocery by me they said they would buy all I had available but they are small and I doubt the volume would be enough to warrant any kind of an investment.

#12 Another line item to consider is cost per square foot of GB area. Would seem to me without doing any calculations that GB's of any size will require large pumps for both air (compressors) or air pumps, water pumping, fans, and heat for the greenhouse. At todays cost for electricity and fuel that can be a large amount at the end of the year to take into consideration. Solar is a way to go but it is the least efficient of all the modalities and the most costly to set up for the benefit you receive. Been there and done that although I would do again depending on circumstances. Most people do not realize that a 60A solar system is only 5.4A on 120V (if using batteries.) Even if using a grid tied system the benefit you will see in your power bill is not as much as you MAY BE thinking you will get. A 10K system will cost >$50,000 just for parts. Gotta sell plenty of lettuce.
#13 Approximate yield per planting
#14 Wholesale cost to the middle man.

JCO
09-15-2013, 12:05 AM
Great insight and input...I appreciate your knowledge, opinion and forsight on the subject.

It still all comes back to the fact that large hydroponic systems or huge ones like the one in Az that raises gazillions of pounds of tomatoes a year are operational and showing enough profit to warrant staying in business, it seems to me that since you don't have to buy chemicals to grow the plants, what's holding someone with enough acreage and money back from venturing into the fray?

Yes, I know you still have to buy the fish food, but you also offset the cost of the fish food with the money from the fish...so basically still no cost there.

I don't have the bucks or land...all I have is 46+ years of knowledge and experience in the field of Aquaponics and Aquaculture and I am waiting for the other half of the equation to wake up and say let's make this dog hunt. :mrgreen:

Aloha Don
11-13-2013, 10:18 AM
I just heard of a new federal guideline for commercial AP....Starting next year they will not be allowing Styrofoam to be used.
Has anyone else heard this?
What are thoughts about substitutes?