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15mules
07-07-2013, 02:37 PM
Ok, Guys
I am new and maybe this is the wrong place for this post?? But I could not find another place to post Greenhouse stuff (besides heating and cooling, I found that) So Moderator please move this if needed.
We now return to your regular programing

Except for maybe Hawaii and a few parts of So. Cal., I do not think there are many places in the U.S. to operate a AP system year round without some kind of green house. Would you agree?? ------ I take your silence as a yes!
So the question is, how big, and what kind. I have done a bit of research on this and have come to a few conclusions.
#1 outside growing is very cheap, compared to greenhouse growing, plan some areas which will only be used during the summer months ( ie. cheap grow space)
#2 Energy efficiency has to be a top priority, a greenhouse is no good if you cannot afford to cool/heat it to maintain plant growth and a profit, might as well not have it. Remember this is for profit, not a hobby!!
#3 Greenhouse space, being your most expensive space, is at a premium it must be planned to make full use of all of the cooled/heated area (Including excess ceiling space, if it is space inside, you have to heat and cool it, if you cannot use it, IE 10' in the air, it is wasted)
#4 shape of building and orientation of building are major considerations.

Basics of construction:
Geodesic domes are out. Ever tried finding half round containers?? Lots of wasted space in these things. High building cost, due to irregular shape (lots of wasted material, plywood is square, insulation is square, not triangle shape??). They are usually quite tall for their foot print, due to maintaining structural integrity (lots of wasted space in open air areas up high) They are labor intensive to build, because of putting all the little triangle pieces together. Hobby, conversation piece, great!! Commercial for profit? Not so great.
Hoop style house I think these could be good, with a few exceptions. Large uninsulated surfaces. hard to heat/cool. The end walls could be build solid and insulated, but if you try to insulate any part of the roof you will create shady spots?? These could be good for marginal weather ( spring or fall) to simply extend outdoor growing, but seem pretty inefficient for all out winter use.
Traditional framed greenhouse Well proven through the years in many commercial grow operations. Large roof vents a must to exhaust hot air in the summer. The end walls could be built solid and insulated to help in the winter. Depending on the orientation and side wall height, one of the side walls or possibly both could be insulated, to help in the winter. There are also many not in use, so a person might could find a used one at a cheaper price? This seems like a reasonable building choice.
Non-traditional greenhouse The friendlies (can I say that here??) are recommending what they call the "Chinese" style of green house. Basically a greenhouse with two solid ends, one short side wall and one tall sidewall with a sloped roof. These seem fairly energy efficient, although since not many are in use in the U.S. I have not found much of a track record for their use here. ( I guess that is why they are called Chinese, not American style??). The cost is more than a traditional tubing framed greenhouse, because they are constructed more like a house as far as framing sheeting, insulating etc. There are no used ones to be bought cheap, well, because there are none! There does not seem to be a lot of wasted overhead space in them, and because they are rectangle, like the hoop house or the traditional framed greenhouse, grow bed layout should be fairly efficient?
Orientation Well there seems to be some debate on that. traditionally greenhouses were laid out(as far as I can tell) longways east to west. This was done in order to get maximum sun and to be honest I do not believe heating/cooling efficiency had any consideration in this?? Now, some are recommending the opposite, that the greenhouse be oriented longways north, south and more attention be paid to energy efficient in maintaining temperature, rather than maximum sun exposure?? Which is correct?? ---- Ok you were supposed to answer that, but since you did not, I guess you are unsure also?? Well, I do not know. I tend to go with the more efficient idea, but I wonder during short winter days, if the extra sun exposure would come into play and prove more beneficial??

So what have we learned, besides the fact that we have more questions than answers??? No, Seriously, we have more questions than answers here!! So any input on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

To those of you just anonymously reading, like I was for a long time. This post should show you you do not have to have all of the answers to make a post, quite the opposite. This is the part where you register with DYI and join in here to add some information that we are missing, or could use.

Thanks for listening

davidstcldfl
07-07-2013, 04:54 PM
One can extend the growing season by using high tunnels. Thier costs aren't too high. The AG dept had/has a program to help pay for the 1st one.

As far as green houses...if I were to do one....I'd go with the chinese style. Yes the upfront costs are more, but you'd save more in the long run.

15mules
07-07-2013, 05:10 PM
I have heard of this program the Ag. dept. has for the tunnels. I understand it is up to $7,000.00 towards there purchase. You have to make the purchase first, it is a reimbursement program. Like with most Gov. programs there are stings attached, as I understand, reports, inspections of operation, etc. I have also been told for the first two years they have to be used for an "Approved" farming practice of which AP is not one, YET, although after the 2 years you can do what you want and it is yours. I need to do more research into this program to get all the facts.
Thanks

davidstcldfl
07-08-2013, 09:45 AM
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they have to be used for an "Approved" farming practice of which AP is not one,
I can understand the 1st part of this...having to use them for 'farming'.

Just wondering '15'...did someone tell you AP is un-aproved type of farming...?...and who told you something like that....?

If your grow beds were in there, I can't see how anyone could say it's not an approved farming practice...? NFT, DWC, flood and drain are all established forms of growing. We AP'ers borrowed those from hydroponics.

15mules
07-10-2013, 11:27 AM
Ok, I talked to David in a pm and explained where I got my info. I just do not want to put anyone's name out there and put them on the spot here. I intend to look into this more, as to if indeed AP is not approved, as I have been told, or it was just a misinformed agent etc. I am sure everyone, as well as myself, would appreciate if anyone else were able to get first hand information as to whether AP is indeed approved or not, but for the time being I am going with what my source told me. I would not plan to use them DIRECTLY, to set up an AP system in for the first 2 years.

classg
05-19-2014, 12:24 AM
Before the start of construction can we have to take environmental clearance or not.