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hawkiye
03-23-2013, 11:11 PM
Here is the system I am building this forum has already helped me out in how to do things feel free to make suggestions. I am pasting these from a local meetup forum so if the context seem a little off here and there that is why I don't have time to edit them. Here we go.


Ok then lets get things moving so thought I would Post a couple of pics on the chaos that will hopefully soon become my working AP system. [;)]

These are the grow beds I am deciding how to lay out. I am going to build a greenhouse room on the patio eventually so decided to see if I could make the AP system fit on the patio rather then on the other side of the house. I think it will work but I'll have to build a custom tank for the fish. I have a good water bed liner that may work for that but we'll see...

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/c/6/d/6/event_213230902.jpeg

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/c/7/d/a/event_213231162.jpeg

On another note The Bees are amazing these girls know how to work! I haven't seen a flower or bloom anywhere yet they are finding pollen somewhere. Not a lot but they are finding it... I am impressed!

hawkiye
03-23-2013, 11:13 PM
Well so the water bed liner will not work its to small so I need to figure out how to build a custom tank for cheap. The conventional method is to build one out of wood and user a pond liner. But pond liners are dam expensive. Thought about using a couple of barrels connected with large pipe but I want a little bigger tank for the fish. So in my travels I ran across this guy on youtub who build pools out of cardoard.. Yep that's right I said cardboard LOL! So its got my gears turning here check it out:


[video:2zzke3cb]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsAxyxDOAS0[/video:2zzke3cb]

It's actually not a bad idea and most of all cheap. I don't think I will use cardboard this time around because I don't know how long it will last but it could lend it self to some cool shapes. However some thin plywood or ceder fence pickets instead would be better I am thinking. His water proofing method is pretty clever I thought. What I may do is build the tank of wood and water proof it like he does and try a small test tank out of cardboard just to see how long it will last... hey if it works we could call it Cardboard Aquaponics LOL!

Well I am off to check out some hard rock covering and price it etc...

hawkiye
03-23-2013, 11:15 PM
Update: 3/14/13

Well the grow beds are all leveled and ready for plumbing. Looks easy but the patio has a pitch to it so the water will drain and i have rock steps that I built on to it that are not perfectly flat so after fiddling around and shimming the block I finally got it level. Leveling is important so the water distributes evenly into the beds and does not flow to one side or the other.

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/6/4/event_214021892.jpeg

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/a/a/event_214021962.jpeg

I also tested the gravel from the local cement plant for high PH using vinegar. Just take a hand full of gravel and put it in a clear jar with vinegar and if it starts fissing or bubbling it has to much limestone in it that will keeps the PH to high for the system my gravel tested fine.

http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/8/4/a/event_214022122.jpeg

I have also been clearing out the planter area ( digging up potting some of the plants we want to save till we figure out where to put them etc. for the fish tank and getting the outside of the tank ready for paint. I was going to use the hard rock coating but it's to expensive and I have some really good exterior paint already so i am going to use that and I have an piece of floor vinyl I will set under the tank on top of some gravel too to keep water from wicking up the wood and rotting it eventually

As usual when you start a project it just seems to expand and make more and more work. I'll need to put a gutter up on the house where the fish tank is going to sit so the rain does not drain into the tank. Luckily I have some gutter laying around but will need some paint to match the house. I am also going to have to dig the planter out a foot deep for the tank as it is too tall otherwise...

I will get more pictures and an update up when I have some time.

hawkiye
03-23-2013, 11:17 PM
Update 3/18/12

OK things are moving forward slowly. I had to put up a rain gutter where the fish tank is going to be so the rain would not run into the tank and over flow it and mess with the PH etc.

Here is the gutter all installed. Luckily I had this laying around it was missing 2 out of 8 brackets and of course the big box store did not have that type of bracket so I used a couple of long lag bolts to replace those two and it worked good. I of course had to paint it and luckily still had some house paint from when we bought the house 9 years ago and it was amazingly still good.

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/6/5/1/0/event_215785872.jpeg

I then focused my attention on getting the tank ready. I painted the outside with a good acrylic latext paint to water proof it which I also had lying around too can you tell I am a miser LOL! So I went to work to get the tank finished so I can get it in place to start plumbing.

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/6/5/1/a/event_215785882.jpeg

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/6/5/4/c/event_215785932.jpeg

These are a couple of shots of the tank as I get ready to put the other end on and I will then have to glass in the corners like you see in the rest of the tank and then put a final coat of resin on. This will hold about 800 gallons it will make a great fish tank. I was building this for rain water catchment.

I got the other end on and started working on the ground where the tank is gong to go; under the window where I put up the gutter. However I have run into a snag. This tank is just to damn big to fit there without blocking part of the walkway. The window is a pop out and I'd have to drop the tank almost two feet into the ground to fit under the pop out so I could move it back off the walk way area. That is a lot of digging by hand. It also needed to go down at least a foot to fifteen inches so the grow beds could gravity drain back to the tank. Also I did not really want to put a wood tank (the outside) in the ground as the moisture would rot the wood eventually. I was going to put some of that rubber roofing sealer on it and go for it as it is what I have and can't afford to spend a bunch of money right now.

I have been racking my brain on what to do. So I think I am going to build a custom permanent pond/tank there so it can conform to the area. Either way it looks like I am going to have to dig. So I think what I have decided is I will dig down about foot to fifteen inches and come up about 24- 27 inches with a ferro cement (like a pool) tank and may decorate with some rock etc.. After pricing pond liners and plywood to build a smaller tank that would fit the area this will be the cheapest. I already have the sand cement and wire mesh and even if I had to buy it it would still be much cheaper. Only thing I'll need to buy is some pool paint probably.

This is what happens when you have limited space. Should of just went with a barrel-ponics system LOL! I always have to do things more elaborate then most it seems... And now the wife wants another patio with a gazebo and a fire pit (which I had promised to do a year or so ago) LOL! Amazing how the size of a project just grows by leaps and bounds as it goes... So I am going to get to building the new tank tomorrow.

hawkiye
03-23-2013, 11:20 PM
It is coming along nothing like making work for yourself. Here is a couple more photos of digging the tank/pond:

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/1/b/5/0/event_216066992.jpeg

Here is the finished hole... And now of course it is raining a bit today lets hope it does't rain to much...

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/1/c/d/6/event_216067382.jpeg

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/1/c/a/e/event_216067342.jpeg

hawkiye
03-23-2013, 11:52 PM
Update 3/24/12

Ok moving along here the tank is coming along slowly I have about half of the first coat of cement on. Doing it in a hole like this is not the easiest way to do it but the only way for the space I have. It would be better to if you dig down completely and then back fill the dirt to the level you wanted it. or just dig the entire tank into the ground. The wire moves a lot wen sticking up over the edges so you have to mix the cement just right so its wet enough to flow but dry enough to stick to the wire.

But it working as we get read for the meetup tomorrow. Also a sprayer would be better and easier then troweling it on. However its not to bad :


Here's some pics of the tank partially coated:
http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/8/5/7/2/event_217114162.jpeg

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/8/5/c/2/event_217114242.jpeg

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/8/6/2/6/event_217114342.jpeg

Being partially in the ground should help keep the water temperature more stable. I will also build up some rock around the part sticking up out of the ground which will also help insulate the tank.

JCO
03-24-2013, 04:33 AM
Looking very good ... keep the photos coming :mrgreen:

badflash
03-25-2013, 04:17 AM
Those pools will need a little more support on the bottom. Once you put water and media in them they will sag any place there is overhang.

Another note on the rain water. You need to harden that water before adding it to your system. I assume you are growing tilapia. If not check the hardness and pH requirements. Rain water is essentially distilled and has nearly no minerals. One member lost a hge number of fish by adding straight rain water.

hawkiye
03-25-2013, 10:18 PM
Those pools will need a little more support on the bottom. Once you put water and media in them they will sag any place there is overhang.

Another note on the rain water. You need to harden that water before adding it to your system. I assume you are growing tilapia. If not check the hardness and pH requirements. Rain water is essentially distilled and has nearly no minerals. One member lost a hge number of fish by adding straight rain water.

Thanks for the tips. Yeah I will be using some plywood underneath the pools to reinforce the bottoms so they do not sag. I was not planning on using rainwater I was going to use a tank i was building for rainwater as a fish tank but it turned out to be to big for that spot hence I am building the ferro cement tank. I have irrigation water but am afraid to use that too no telling what is in it from the farms up stream. So will bite the bullet and use tap water and let the chlorine dissipate. Yes I will be raising Tilapia for starters. Want to try my hand at trout eventually too just cause I like to eat trout and also cause everyone says its to hard :mrgreen: . However I read somewhere that trout are the most popular fish for AP with the Ozzies.

Appreciate all the feed back though!

davidstcldfl
03-26-2013, 06:57 AM
So will bite the bullet and use tap water and let the chlorine dissipate.
Hawkiye, you might want to check in with your city's water dept. Most, if not all city water now has chloromine in it, rather then chlorine. Chloromines don't disapate like chlorine. It might stay in the water for a month or so.
Some of us use sodium ascorbate, which helps to break it down. Or you may need to use another water traetment. Some use special water filters.

hawkiye
03-26-2013, 10:42 AM
So will bite the bullet and use tap water and let the chlorine dissipate.
Hawkiye, you might want to check in with your city's water dept. Most, if not all city water now has chloromine in it, rather then chlorine. Chloromines don't disapate like chlorine. It might stay in the water for a month or so.
Some of us use sodium ascorbate, which helps to break it down. Or you may need to use another water traetment. Some use special water filters.

Hmmm thanks for the tip I'll check on that. I use a 4 stage reverse osmosis for drinking but could never filter enough water for the tank through it. So something like a carbon filter for Chloromine perhaps? I am going to use an intex pool external pump which has a filter housing in it maybe I can find a carbon filter that will fit in it....

badflash
03-27-2013, 02:55 PM
I use a Kold-Ster-il filter. It remove chloramines , heavy metals, hydrocarbons but not good minerals. Setup is about $350, replacement filters are about $80. These are high flow and I get around 100,000 gallons through it before the flow slows down to the point I can't deal with it. It will block up before it ever passes bad stuff.

hawkiye
03-30-2013, 12:26 PM
Update 3/30/12

Yea the tank is technically done however I was thinking of facing it with river rock and the wife was out looking at it and said hey I think you need to face it with river rock... Guess what river rock it is LOL.

So it turned out to be a little more work then I anticipated (doesn't it always) however it saved me a lot of money I was checking around for pond paint and it was like over $100 a gallon. So I did some research and ended up buying acrylic concrete fortifier to mix with the cement. it makes the cement water proof. So I used that as a final coat on the inside of the tank.

I talked to a local pond guy here and he said it will work good but to fill the tank and let it set for a few days to leach out any nasties then drain and refill and it is ready for fish. Acrylic goes inert after it cures...

So now I need to put the ornamental rock on but that should. not take long and it will add thermal mass for helping keep the water temp stable. So I gathered up what I had laying around the yard and then combed the neighborhood empty lots and found enough (hopefully) to veneer the tank with.

I am starting a new job so I don't know how soon I'll be able to get to the plumbing but have to get the rock on first. So hopefully within the next couple weeks we will have water flowing.

On another note my Apricot tree is in beginning bloom and the bees are rocking that tree hoping for more soon. The Nectarine and Cherry are getting ready to pop also then they will bee on bee heaven ;)

Here are some pictures of the progress of the tank.

Finishing the floor. If I had it to do over I would do the floor first and let it set up for a couple of days and then do the walls.
http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/3/6/2/6/event_218233862.jpeg

Getting ready to do the last part of the tank which is the lip area. I had some pieces of cedar fence pickets laying around so I drilled some holes in them and wired them to the lip hanging underneath for to keep the mud from falling through:
http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/5/f/c/event_219262012.jpeg

A couple shots of the finished tank:

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/2/d/2/event_219261202.jpeg

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/3/5/e/event_219261342.jpeg

And here is a shot of some more work I made for myself LOL... The decorative rock that will go on the tank..

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/3/e/a/event_219261482.jpeg

Enjoy and be glad I am doing the work and you just get to watch LOL!

hawkiye
04-14-2013, 09:51 PM
Update 4/14/12 Ok finally was able to get back on the system yesterday and today. I was out of town week before last doing some training for a new job and of course have to work during the week so am not able to get to the system till the afternoon and weekends.

Any ways I am making some headway i got the inlet installed in the tank and sealed but not able to test the seal yet as I am waiting for the sealant to cure fully and still need to put rock on the tank. So while I was waiting I decided to get the bottom supports for the grow bed cut out and d drilled and make the bell siphons and test them.

Here are some pics of the tests of the bell siphon it works this is an Affnan style bell siphon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmxsI5ZRLA4

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/d/6/8/event_225284392.jpeg

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/d/d/6/event_225284502.jpeg

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/e/6/2/event_225284642.jpeg

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/e/e/e/event_225284782.jpeg

I used 3/4' pipe and a slip fit fitting with O rings on each side of the plastic like a bulkhead fitting sort of and it works great. No leaks and the O rings I got at Harbor Freight. I have had them for a while I bought them a couple years ago a whole case of about 20 different sizes and I finally have a use for the bigger ones... LOL.

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/e/2/4/2/event_225297922.jpeg

The clear plastic flare you see at the top of the stand pipe is cut from a 2 leader pop bottle. and I heated the end of the stand pipe with a 3 dollar old hair dryer I got from the thrift store and flared it out by pushing it over a wine bottle end till it fit on the pop bottle end. I did not have anymore pop bottles so just flared the end of the PVC pipe. and tested them all and they work good.

Anyway I am close to plumbing it and starting cycling it.

hawkiye
04-28-2013, 10:52 PM
Update 4/28/13 Ok so i finally have the system plumbed and tested it and there was some leaks and some problems adapting the pump hoses to 3/4 PVC pipe. Fixed the leaks (hopefully) and got all the plumbing glued together at least the stuff that is underground and about ready to start cycling. I have to drain the tank first as the water in it has been sitting for a week now to leach out any nastiness in the acrylic fortified concrete so need fresh water to start the cycle.

To adapt the pump hoses to the 3/4" PVC I tried to use some poly-pipe but it was too rigid and would not allow the pump hose to seal up with hose clamps. So I ended up getting some 1 inch automotive heater hose and it fits over 3/4" PVC pipe (barely) with a little work and then I had to cut a short piece of 1" poly-pipe (3") long ways and actually take out about a 1/4" section long ways and push it in the heater hose then work the pump hose over the heater hose and clamp it down. I figure since heater hose is high heat it will be inert as far as off gassing since it can withstand high temperatures

Here's what it looks like:

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/3/3/7/e/event_230473182.jpeg

Here is the plumbing all done and in the trenches:

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/3/1/c/6/event_230472742.jpeg

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/3/2/5/c/event_230472892.jpeg

Here is a shot of the Intex pool pump.

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/3/3/0/6/event_230473062.jpeg

I am anxious to get it cycling the weather just turned warm so I can start growing now but having to work a damn job to make a living takes up so much time it is maddening. Plus I got some orders for beehives so that is taking up my free time too. Hopefully the next pictures will be of the grow beds filled with media and the tank cycling. I need to get a PH kit too...

foodchain
05-01-2013, 12:58 PM
Couple of questions. The ferocment tank is built close to the house. Is there any concern of the ground shifting under the weight from the house? This was a concern of mine when I burried an IBC tote under my deck.
The ferocment tank sticks above the ground. Ferocment is a fairly thin coating typically and needs to be reinforced. For the parts in the ground, dirt that settles back will do this. But what supports the part above, other then chicken wire?
Would cinder blocks above ground and ferocment over have worked better, and back filling the cinderblocks with concrete and rebar? I used to be an underwater welder, and differential displacement/pressures is not something you want to take chances with.
Water is very heavy, you are looking at something like 8 1/2 lbs per gallon ball park. That's a lot of pressure per square inch.
IF you wanted to try trout, long troughs is better, water comes in one end, and goes out the other like a stream. People who have had a hard time with it, usually have tried with a round pond or tank. Trout do not like to go in circles.

foodchain
05-01-2013, 01:01 PM
Water volume will help better with your thermal mass. Rocks actually pull the heat out. It's sounds bonkers I know. But that's what it does. To stabilize temp fluctuations, and PH fluctuations increase volume of water. The larger the volume the more stable it is. And avoid pollution through dillution. Those two sayings will save your butt more times than not.

foodchain
05-01-2013, 02:21 PM
I do like the idea of using kiddie pools as grow beds. I might pirate this idea. They are definetly cheap enough. And the depth appears to be about right for an ebb/flow system.

hawkiye
05-01-2013, 10:02 PM
Couple of questions. The ferocment tank is built close to the house. Is there any concern of the ground shifting under the weight from the house? This was a concern of mine when I burried an IBC tote under my deck.
The ferocment tank sticks above the ground. Ferocment is a fairly thin coating typically and needs to be reinforced. For the parts in the ground, dirt that settles back will do this. But what supports the part above, other then chicken wire?
Would cinder blocks above ground and ferocment over have worked better, and back filling the cinderblocks with concrete and rebar? I used to be an underwater welder, and differential displacement/pressures is not something you want to take chances with.
Water is very heavy, you are looking at something like 8 1/2 lbs per gallon ball park. That's a lot of pressure per square inch.
IF you wanted to try trout, long troughs is better, water comes in one end, and goes out the other like a stream. People who have had a hard time with it, usually have tried with a round pond or tank. Trout do not like to go in circles.

Its the only place I had room for the tank. No worries of the ground shifting. The wire in the cement is the reinforcing. I am a 3rd generation mason concrete has tremendous compression strength but not much tinsel strength. When you add wire or some type of mesh even fiberglass can be used (fiber cement) encapsulated in the concrete you combine the compression strength of the concrete with the tinsel strength of the reinforcement. It makes for a super strong matrix. I have the tank filled up now and leaching out any nastiness on the concrete it is just fine and I don't even have the final coat on yet. ;)

What about lake trout? They don't swim in a stream? Temperature and heavy feeders seems to be the biggest factors for trout?

Rock will only pull heat out if there is a big temperature differential. If the water is cooler and the sun heats the rocks it will radiate heat into the tank. If the water becomes hotter then the rocks then yes the rocks will absorb heat until they equalize. Water and rocks are both thermal mass so they should work together to stabilize the temp better.

Kiddies pools are what I had already so i used them ;)

Ike016
05-01-2013, 11:14 PM
Looking at the kiddie pools they would make an awesome raft system with the drain in the middle using a rotation system like a clock. So many ideas when people post pictures of things that could be used.

hawkiye
05-03-2013, 09:14 AM
Looking at the kiddie pools they would make an awesome raft system with the drain in the middle using a rotation system like a clock. So many ideas when people post pictures of things that could be used.

Another thing i like about them is they are not square. I am tired of all the "boxes" that permeate our lives especially our houses. So less right angles is more ascetically pleasing for me... ;)

foodchain
05-03-2013, 02:29 PM
The concrete above the ground, is only supported by the mesh. So you are not talking compression strength here. As the water pushes out, in an effort to seek a nuetral level...it will be applying a shearing force on the concrete at or about the edge of the dirt surface. IF it breaks, it will be there.

Lake trout require volume. You pond isn't big enough in shear volume. Look at the fishes body shape....long and narrow are built for more open water. Short and fat like bluegill are meant more for smaller areas, that have less flow.

Good Luck.

foodchain
05-03-2013, 02:33 PM
The concern with the house moving is this: House exerts more weight/pressure than the dirt or water.
Old houses sink, in the dirt because the shift and compress it over time. Short term, you are probably fine. 20 years though, is another issue. Depending on your specific timeline will depend on what your soil character is, and the amount of run off, sand, clay, etc.

People in North Texas are very familiar with this due to our high clay content and expansion/contraction caused by the heat. While we may be an extreme, the same is true everywhere in the world in varying degrees.

Just be careful. Long term, that COULD be a problem.

foodchain
05-03-2013, 02:34 PM
I am stealing your kiddie pool design, and modifying it. Thank you for the idea. Hope it's not personal.

hawkiye
05-04-2013, 09:28 AM
The concrete above the ground, is only supported by the mesh. So you are not talking compression strength here. As the water pushes out, in an effort to seek a nuetral level...it will be applying a shearing force on the concrete at or about the edge of the dirt surface. IF it breaks, it will be there.

Lake trout require volume. You pond isn't big enough in shear volume. Look at the fishes body shape....long and narrow are built for more open water. Short and fat like bluegill are meant more for smaller areas, that have less flow.

Good Luck.

Thanks I am actually considering bluegill at some point and maybe perch. Long and flowing does make sense for trout though. Maybe in my next project I will keep that in mind and that is what they do at the hatcheries where they raise them too..

The compression strength and tinsel strength are working together in synthesis it won't break it is far stronger then the plastic tanks being used. The ground moving is only on unstable ground. Nothing is moving the house is 11 years old no cracks in the foundation etc. and the foundations are below the frost line.

Why would I mind you using the kiddie pools? We are all here to share ideas if I can help anyone foster an idea by anything I did I am happy to do it and contribute in any small way!

hawkiye
05-05-2013, 09:40 PM
Update: 5/5/2013

Yeah!!! The tank is done everything is plumbed and the cycling has started!!! Just working on timing the flood and drain and doing some tweaking. I discovered one of the siphons just acted like continues flow and would not drain and then flood. Problem was I raised the end of the drain head so it was down hill a bit but this raised the pipe underneath the grow bed so it was a little uphill causing enough back pressure to keep the full siphon from starting. Solution cut the riser a little bit that the drain header connects to so the drain is down a hill still but the pipe underneath is now also down hill a little. I also put an air vent in the end cap of the drain header (drilled a small hole)

Anyways here is the finished product except I still need to make a cover for the fish tank till I get the green house room built. Right now I am just throwing a tarp over it so I don't get an algae bloom from the sun. Also going to make a box for the pump, and the wife wants an Egyptian obelisk to cover the return pipe to the tank but that in due time. Want to get it cycled and get some fish and plants in it first.

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/5/2/a/event_233061802.jpeg

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/5/7/a/event_233061882.jpeg

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/5/f/c/event_233062012.jpeg

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/6/8/8/event_233062152.jpeg

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/6/f/6/event_233062262.jpeg

http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/7/8/c/event_233062412.jpeg

davidstcldfl
05-06-2013, 04:42 AM
Lookin' nice hawkiye... 8-) Good catch on your drain issue.. :)

Just wondering....what's the plan come winter ?

hawkiye
05-06-2013, 07:20 AM
Lookin' nice hawkiye... 8-) Good catch on your drain issue.. :)

Just wondering....what's the plan come winter ?

Thanks it was a lot of work. :o I seem to have a habit of making more work for myself then I need to lol. I always seem to make things more elaborate then needed. I am going to build a greenhouse room on the patio to cover it. If I do not get to it in time I will put up a make shift one with plastic for winter.

JCO
07-27-2013, 11:46 PM
So how about an update on what your system looks like now. I will say the only experience I've had with kiddie pools is raising duckweed and the pools I had only lasted about 1/3 the way through the second year. The edges started to crumble from damage by the sun. :mrgreen:

Aloha Don
07-29-2013, 07:30 PM
I was wondering about the durability of these pools
I know as a kid we put them through the test every year...but they only lasted a year

IdahoAquaponics
01-01-2014, 03:03 AM
I know this is an older thread by i wanted to recognize a fellow Idahoan. That is one good looking system and i had hoped that you could update where you are at with it now that winter is here. Keep up the good work!