PDA

View Full Version : Knowledge sponge from Illinois



kodacakes
02-07-2013, 01:42 PM
Hello everyone, I'm 23 years old living near Chicago, IL. It is currently freezing here and covered in snow... it's also raining... :cry: I've always felt like an old soul. I definitely don't "fit" with people my age but I found my other half who is just like me! He's soon to be 26, an army veteran, we have the same interests and ambitions for what we want out of life. I'm always interested in learning new things... okay more like using every moment of down time and in between to research anything and everything of interest. My major passion is animals, I was going to school for veterinary medicine but that is put on hold because it's just not practical with today's economy. :| Enough about me, let's get to the good stuff!

I ended up at aquaponics because of my interest in one day having a more self sustaining life. Not to the extent of no electricity mind you (although the idea of solar panels is quite intriguing to me)! More to the extent of I'd rather grow and raise my food than buy things I'm not sure of at the grocery store. My ultimate goal is to move out of Illinois (the boyfriend and I have been looking at East Texas or maybe a close-by state near the South since we hate the Chicago wind and extreme snows) once the move happens (we're aiming for April 2014) we'd like to look around for a house with some acres and slowly incorporate more things to be more efficient (start with chickens and move our way on up). I've even gone to the extent of learning butchering and things like that. I wasn't joking when I said I research extensively haha anyways I ended up stumbling upon aquaponics and it sounds rather ideal since it is almost essentially a complete little (or big!) ecosystem where each thing is beneficial to the next. I really love the concept and so I figured my best bet would be to start small since we're currently in an apartment and then go bigger once moved and established in a house.

I've already read a ton on aquaponics and am still getting any and all information, tips, tricks, etc. that I can. I stumbled upon this site from... I believe a blog. I figured instead of laying low I'd put myself out there and see what information I can soak up from all of you veterans and even the new guys :P (and gals). My ultimate goal is to end up making an in depth... I suppose blog of sorts with the steps I end up taking from the apartment to a bigger system. Pictures, the parts and steps for assembly... I'm pretty sure you all get it haha I want to have it all laid out so other people like myself can glean what they want out of it or even not make whatever mistakes I might make and/or see solutions to overcome them.

Once we're moved and go for a bigger system, I will probably go the tilapia route. I happen to love eating fish, mainly white meat fish. My boyfriend however does not eat it (I'm pretty sure he'd eat white fish fried and smothered in ketchup though! :roll: ), although he will eat other sea food... so I've been looking around at possibly some sort of compromise or maybe two FT's so that he can get something out of it as well. :D

So I will just jump on in to what I've been looking at and what I've decided or need more insight in order to decide! Any and all feed back, criticism, information, tips, etc. are welcome!


Since I'm in an apartment until our big move... space is obviously a big factor and of course this also means it would be indoors (then again I don't think anything could survive Chicago seasons haha!). I haven't quite decided how big of a FT I want to go. I am aware that smaller ones tend to have more issues in terms of levels, etc. which is why I've been wondering just how big I can go. I guess space isn't a huge issue since the boyfriend and I are quite simplistic in our living. Neither of us care for crazy expensive/elaborate things. We'd much rather enjoy time together and then of course there's our pets. I swear we've spent more money on them than us! I'm positive they eat better than us as well :lol: Right now we currently have a whole room vacant... although there has been some talk of starting a family in the near future so I don't know if that means the room will be taken up or not (odds are that'll happen in Texas so let's ignore that factor for now)! I know that I don't want to go as big as 100 gallons, I think that would be far too extreme for an apartment. But I'm also not sure that I want to start as small as 30 gallons. I know we'll be doing an ebb & flow system. Instead of writing a million paragraphs (which I'm quite good at) I will just write bullet questions/thoughts for anyone to comment on:

-If I want to start out by growing things like lettuce, spinach, some herbs, and maybe a cherry tomato plant or 2... how much space do you think I would roughly need for something like that (grow bed size)? I like all of those things listed whereas my boyfriend would only eat the spinach and some herbs.

-Would 2 beds be more ideal for the things I'm interested in growing?

-I've read that tomatoes do better in a grow bed medium other than gravel... so odds are it would have to be separate then? Or could I still put it with the rest of the bed?

-I know people typically use gold fish or small koi for systems that aren't huge. I doubt I would have a system large enough to grow edible fish... so are there any other fun/useful options?

-Are there options that are not fish? Or perhaps things that can co-exist with the fish and live harmoniously without poorly affecting the plant growth? Or perhaps even aiding in the system?

-I've read that some people start growing directly in the system but have to deal with seeds washing away while other people have their nursery to start out then transfer... I feel like most people I've read about transfer to their grow beds... what is involved in the process of the plants going from a potted setting to the grow bed media?

-I've looked around for people that grow asparagus. I've seen a couple people say they do but they haven't posted anything on how they go about it. I know asparagus in general are a bit different than just growing lettuce and other easy plants so I was wondering if anyone has knowledge of this? Or perhaps I've overlooked a post with explanations/experience?

-What if I were interested in growing onions? Garlic?

I'll stop here for now since I've already written a lot and I'd rather have the questions I currently have get answered instead of overlooked. If there are already posts that I haven't had the chance to read that explain any of my questions feel free to post the link or web-site instead of writing it all out! Or you can write a ton like I do :)

urbanfarmer
02-07-2013, 02:28 PM
Greetings Earthling, and welcome to the addiction! :mrgreen:

kodacakes
02-07-2013, 02:42 PM
Thanks!

I've read further and it seems like some people don't even start doing tomatoes until a year or more because tomatoes require more nitrates to grow and they'll steal it from other plants in your grow bed... so wouldn't you be able to just have one dedicated to tomatoes? Assuming you love tomatoes haha

Also read more about different critters that can live in the FT's. I already knew about crayfish and then I saw stuff on... I believe mussels. But still curious if anyone has tried other things? Maybe shrimp or something along those lines?

I was pleased to read that green beans apparently grow like weeds and since they grow upwards they don't take up much room :P

Still haven't really seen anyone talk about asparagus or onions... I'm sure they're out there and I will find them haha

keith_r
02-08-2013, 08:00 AM
i've grown onions, garlic, leaks and chives, all did well.. asparagus takes a couple years, i may plant some in my indoor system

bbikebbs
02-08-2013, 02:19 PM
I was told that it is recommended that Asparagus not be harvested until the 3rd year after planting in soil before you harvest. This is supposedly to allow the plant to grow enough roots to withstand harvesting.

bsfman
02-08-2013, 03:55 PM
A 55 gallon fish tank and two 2'X3'X8" deep mortar tubs from Home Depot might be an ideal indoor starter system. Some shop light flourescent fixtures from Home Depot along with 9 bags of pea gravel for the media, a small pump, some 1/2" PVC and fittings and you're good to go!

Don't believe that stuff about tomatos not doing good in gravel. I just uprooted some 30 odd indeterminant tomato vines that were nearly an inch thick at the base and 12 to 15 feet long that were growing in gravel!

By the way, welcome to the forum! :)

Texas will definitely give you better outdoor options than Illinois!

kodacakes
02-09-2013, 07:27 AM
Thanks for the responses everyone! :)

Great to hear the onions, garlic, etc. grow well! I figured asparagus would be far more complex and tedious since it is when grown in dirt so why would it suddenly be quick and easy in water? ;) Does anyone know if there's anyone on here that's had success when growing asparagus? Perhaps it's best to start them in dirt then transplant them? Or perhaps they wouldn't withstand it? I haven't really heard about many people having success with them so that just means more research for me!

Thanks for the in depth response towards a system bsfman! I always enjoy reading your posts, they're very informative. I've been reading different things online and obviously everyone has a different way of doing things and different guidelines but I guess I was wondering about people's input/opinions on the things I've found:

A 50 gallon tank supports 6-8 cubic feet of grow bed? I've seen one person say that it's a 1:1 ratio and I've seen people say it's a 1:2 ratio. I'm not sure if that's dependent on people who have higher stock densities in which case I know they have to add things to their system such as filtration... so if the 6-8 cubic feet is the case then you're looking at something that's 3'x2'x1' or 4'x2'x1' or something like 24"x24"x18" (I put this one in because I've also read that you want your FT at a depth of at least 18"?). I've also read various things of 1lb to 1.5lbs of fish for every 5-10 gallons of water? I guess I'm just figuring out what can I have and how much grow space I can have. Right now I'm thinking 50-60 gallon. Don't think I want to go to 75 for now. I might consider 75 if it's worth my while haha

Roger R.
02-09-2013, 07:46 AM
Why would you ever want to move out of Illinois? It's the the best place on earth! :lol:

Central Illinois here.

kodacakes
02-09-2013, 09:12 AM
Hahaha that's great! I'm thinking one of the reasons is because winter is the LONGEST season here. Not to mention just the other day there was already enough snow then it decided to rain... then it changed its mind and decided to snow again. Because everyone loves ice, snow, and freezing wind :-/ haha moving somewhere warm is the best bet!

kodacakes
02-09-2013, 09:19 AM
Okay so question from a thought... if you have something like clams in your system... which are literally a filtration unit... wouldn't you be able to have a slightly higher stocking density? I'm not saying anything crazy, I just mean since they're very effective filters and all. Not to mention edible ;) I know other people have clams and brag about how great they are. It just makes sense to me. Like I know people use crayfish to either help clean the tanks, add phosphorus to their system for the plants, and/or eat up the fish eggs to keep their female tilapias from going on hunger strikes to fatten them up faster. I don't think I'd ever want to eat a crayfish... even my boyfriend says they just taste dirty haha of course that could be that they didn't come from a cleaner water source? Because I've seen some people refer to them as "freshwater lobster." I doubt that's the case but I'm just throwing out things I've read for discussion :)

bbikebbs
02-09-2013, 10:30 AM
Why would you ever want to move out of Illinois? It's the the best place on earth! :lol:

Central Illinois here.

Well let's see.... two governors in jail, Chicago politics managing the state, ice, snow, freezing rain, Chicago...

Been there (owned homes in Dixon and Rockton) and glad I don't have to shovel rain! :D

kodacakes
02-09-2013, 01:40 PM
Accidentally had everything I wrote get cleared.... /facepalm! Okay let's see if I can just write it more to the point anyways... If I want a system that's 50-60 gallons, what is the size of the grow beds? I did see the previous post in terms of the 2 grow bed sizes but the main thing I want to check on here is growing space. Everything I've read is that spacing is less with aquaponics but I haven't really seen much information on spacing anywhere. Does companion gardening exist in aquaponics? With a 50-60 gallon FT... would it be feasible for me to grow garlic, onions, herbs, spinach, beans (pole), cherry tomatoes (vining)? Is that too far of a reach for the grow bed sizes and amount of nutrients they'd get from the FT? Also, would I be able to do a floating raft for herbs in the FT and grow everything else in the GB or would it be best to grow everything together in the GB? Just trying to figure out the whole plan ;)

bsfman
02-09-2013, 04:08 PM
I don't think I'd ever want to eat a crayfish... even my boyfriend says they just taste dirty haha of course that could be that they didn't come from a cleaner water source? Because I've seen some people refer to them as "freshwater lobster." I doubt that's the case but I'm just throwing out things I've read for discussion :)

Crayfish, crawfish, crawdads, mudbugs, whatever you call 'em they ROCK! Delicious! You gotta fix 'em right - don't over boil! Add a good crawfish boil mix with plenty of cayenne (I like Zatarain's) and some chunks of sliced up quartered lemon to the boil pot! I'd choose them over lobster every time! Rip the heads off them, suck the juice out of the head and then throw the head away! Then, if you pinch the tail of the decapitated crawdad just right, the whole of the meat pops right into your mouth and no peeling is necessary!:) They go great with a crisp, heavily hopped beer!

If you've never been there, you owe it to yourself to make a trip to Louisiana and sample some good cajun style crawdads! :)

Roger R.
02-09-2013, 04:45 PM
Why would you ever want to move out of Illinois? It's the the best place on earth! :lol:

Central Illinois here.

Well let's see.... two governors in jail, Chicago politics managing the state, ice, snow, freezing rain, Chicago...

Been there (owned homes in Dixon and Rockton) and glad I don't have to shovel rain! :D

Not to mention we now have the lowest credit rating of any state in the counrty!

kodacakes
02-09-2013, 04:49 PM
Thanks for the input! I had a feeling that part of it had to do with them probably being caught from less than ideal water sources. I'd probably mess with a few or so to see how I felt about them. I mainly like that they are a little clean up crew and provide phosphorus to the system naturally.

davidstcldfl
02-09-2013, 04:54 PM
Hi kodacakes, welcome to the forum... :)
Here's a small system using a barrel and some of the mixing tubs that Bsfman mentioned earlier.....
New work @ Sahib Aquaponics (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?1333-New-work-Sahib-Aquaponics)

Just remember tomatoes can get really huge. The indeterminate can easily get 12 feet or longer. The determinates are more of a bush, but even they can become really large. Lots of dwarfs are being developed. The name is still somewhat miss-leading...they can be 4 to 5 feet also.

Once your system is set up, you can get a jump start by just driving to Home Depot or Lowes and buying a patio tomato. Rinse of the dirt and stiuck them in the media... :) They can get up to 2 ft or more. Oh...wait...your HD and lowes outdoor centers are probably closed ...or have 'stuff' like snow blowers and snow shovels and bags of rock salt.... :P

If your doing them inside under lights, you might consider these, they only get about a foot tall.... totems, red robins, or tiny tims. Micro tom is the worlds smallest, at about 8 inches tall. Problem with those is, you'll need 'a lot of light' since they flower. Some of the other guys here can help you on the lighting issue.

kodacakes
02-13-2013, 09:06 AM
Thanks for the advise and suggestions. I've been figuring out most of everything I've wanted to know through a lot of research and reading. My main question now is just confirming the amount of grow bed space I can have using a 60 gallon tank? I know that I was given a suggested bed size but I just wanted to confirm for all of my plans. Also I hear the general rule for determining spacing for planting is pretty much just the size of which the plant itself needs to grow? Since they're not fighting for nutrients in this kind of system. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I take it I just estimate the sizing of each of space around that?

davidstcldfl
02-13-2013, 12:40 PM
My main question now is just confirming the amount of grow bed space I can have using a 60 gallon tank?
You already mentioned the 'ratios' on the previuos page.
I think those tubs that bsfman and I mentioned are aprox 20 gals. I would, at least, use 3
of those. You could even use 6.
The problem with bell siphons with no sump is, your fish tank's water is going up and down. Even with 3 bells, the water 'could' get pretty low 'if' all 3 were to fill at the same time. With the 6, it would be an issue.
You could try a 'mixed system.' Have 2 or 3 as bell set ups...they would help filter. Then 3 or 4 more as rafts...they would help use up the nitrates.
The little system I linked to earlier, has 2 media tubs and one of them is a raft system.

Also I hear the general rule for determining spacing for planting is pretty much just the size of which the plant itself needs to grow? Since they're not fighting for nutrients in this kind of system. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I take it I just estimate the sizing of each of space around that?

Yes, you are correct.
In a mature system, there are more then enough nutes, even if the plants are crowded. However, plants do need 'their space' as they grow.
Space management comes in to play...
In raft systems, plants are often started in rafts with holes 'very close'. Then as they grow, they are moved to rafts with holes further apart.
I over-seed media tubs with lettuce, lettuce mixes, spinach, and even bok choys. As it grows, I start to thin it, eating the young plants as 'micr-greens'. This gives room for the others to grow.
My problem is, I'm spoiled, my plants usually never makes it to 'full grown'... ;)

kodacakes
02-13-2013, 05:11 PM
For GB ratios being answered are you referring to this?


A 50 gallon tank supports 6-8 cubic feet of grow bed? I've seen one person say that it's a 1:1 ratio and I've seen people say it's a 1:2 ratio. I'm not sure if that's dependent on people who have higher stock densities in which case I know they have to add things to their system such as filtration... so if the 6-8 cubic feet is the case then you're looking at something that's 3'x2'x1' or 4'x2'x1' or something like 24"x24"x18" (I put this one in because I've also read that you want your FT at a depth of at least 18"?). I've also read various things of 1lb to 1.5lbs of fish for every 5-10 gallons of water?

Or are you referring to the response given by bsfman?

I know I want to go with a 60 gallon FT. I see that you're listing multiple beds. Do you think it's better to have several versus one large bed? Plus wouldn't adding more beds just mean I'd probably be better off adding more filtration, etc.? Than just relying on the bed alone as filtration? You brought up another point actually. Would I ever have to worry about the water in the fish tank being at a level that would be too low for the fish? Would I be better off getting a larger FT size but only allowing it to be filled to 60 gallons worth of water?

I've read that one of the best things you can do is planting seeds along with transplanting started ones. They actually fight for the spot (imagine a developing forest; only the strong survive and get the growth space and lighting), the seeds actually beat out the transplants a number of the time but their roots are a lot stronger, etc. Again this is all proven through years of nature at work. To make this makes total sense. Possibly to some this could be a waste. Then again why wouldn't you want the strongest plants to continue your garden yield from?

Sorry if I'm all over the place. My mind is always racing with questions and possibilities. Hence all the reading and research.

Oliver
02-13-2013, 05:58 PM
Welcome to the forum.

I would like to invite you to read "Aquaponics 101" on the portal page. Just scroll down.

Might I suggest you move this discussion to an appropriate area of the forum. This area is reserved for "A Place to Say hello".

Oliver