Planning in Oklahoma

[Moondancer]

I have an 8' by 16' area where I am planning to start an aquaponics area in Oklahoma. Full sun most of the day, against a fence on the west side of the yard. House is far enough south it is not a significant factor in solar exposure.

I will start with a 100 gallon rubbermaid stock tank for the fish tank. I'm not crazy about eating fish, not to mention intimidated by the thought of cleaning and cooking one, so I'll be using goldfish. A two foot deep tank should be deep enough to not worry about freezing to the bottom of the tank, so the fish should be all right through the winter. I want to start with as much information as possible.

I want to grow most to all of the year. Should I plan a pvc greenhouse? Would extend the growing season, but would add cost.

I will be doing this on a limited budget. Ideas for inexpensive grow beds that will stand up to the weight of the growing medium? I am thinking of 15, 50 or 100 gallon rubbermaid stock tanks (fairly expensive but will look good), rubbermaid storage bins (cheap on clearence, look good, but worried they will deform and crack from the weight of medium and water), 5 gallon buckets (cheap but possibly ugly), and flowing through pvc pipe with drilled holes for plants (fairly cheep, but would necessitate constant flow when I am leaning toward ebb and flow).

Ideas on how to hook up multiple grow beds so each gets a fair share of water from the fish tank?

Ideas on how to hook up an extra grow bed as my fish grow? I am thinking take out a bit of "used" grow bed medium from existing beds and adding that to the new bed, then topping new and doner beds with new medium.

Can potatoes be grown in gravel medium? Will there be problems with the tubers?

Goldfish are omnivores. Soldier fly larvae look like they would be easy to grow. Do they need water? Could I use water from the aquaponics system? I am thinking have the outlet at about a half inch to inch, sand or gravel to level of outlet and vegetation above that. Could I breed soldier flies? Would it be better to buy a pound of minnows from a local fish source? Or pay for goldfish flakes?

[bsfman]

Soldier fly larvae look like they would be easy to grow. Do they need water? Could I use water from the aquaponics system? ..... Could I breed soldier flies? Would it be better to buy a pound of minnows from a local fish source? Or pay for goldfish flakes?

Welcome to the forum!

You can breed soldier flies in Oklahoma during summer months when the average daily high is 80F or above. Soldier flies get up to 3/4" long, so you would need BIG goldfish to eat them. They don't require water per se, but they do need adequate moisture - usually derived from the water liberated from the cellular structure of the food they eat. BSF can be dehydrated and crumbled into chunks sized for the size of your fish. You will probably need to buy feed for the months when the BSF are unavailable.

[bcotton]

Moondancer, you seem to have a good idea of what you want to do and how you want this to look which sounds fine. Keep in mind you can probably find 275 or 330 gallon ibc for the same price you will pay for a 100 gallon stock tank. I used to prejudice the look of ibcs too but over time i got over that based on the functionality per cost.

For grow beds i have seen people use stock tanks and they looks nice. If you are the DIY type you can probably save some money and better fit your area using wood and pond liner. Personally i plan to experiment with ferro soon but as i have no first hand experience i cant properly estimate costs. Something to keep in mind with small grow beds... at frist glance a 5 gallon bucket seems cost effective but once you factor in the pvc and the extra fittings and elbows and Tee's it may cost a lot more.

I have a buddy that doesnt eat fish either. He is growing ornamental koi. he believe he will be able to raise them and sell them, maybe you can do something similar to offset food costs of fish since you wont be reaping the rewards of the meat. Part of aquaponics is using everything you grow right.

greenhouse is up to you and your goals. It's always something you can add later.

As for hooking up extra grow beds, i do not see the benefit of messing with the media... your system will be cycled.. the new beds can get the new media and the bacteria will populate the new bed faster than you could ever need it.


I am pretty sure i have seen pictures of people growing potatoes in aquaponics grow beds. I am sure it's possible.. personally, i have not had good luck with anything subgravel such as onions or garlic.

I dont doubt goldfish would eat a minnow if they could but that's a big goldfish.. i find that fish usually will not try to eat something that cannot fit in their mouth. You may find goldfish flakes at your pet store too expensive. Just get an 50lb bag of an omnivore fidh food at a feed store near you. 50 lb bags should cost under $1 a lb... usually 35-40ish here in dallas...

your results may vary,

brian

[Moondancer]

Moondancer, you seem to have a good idea of what you want to do and how you want this to look which sounds fine. Keep in mind you can probably find 275 or 330 gallon ibc for the same price you will pay for a 100 gallon stock tank. I used to prejudice the look of ibcs too but over time i got over that based on the functionality per cost.

For grow beds i have seen people use stock tanks and they looks nice. If you are the DIY type you can probably save some money and better fit your area using wood and pond liner. Personally i plan to experiment with ferro soon but as i have no first hand experience i cant properly estimate costs. Something to keep in mind with small grow beds... at frist glance a 5 gallon bucket seems cost effective but once you factor in the pvc and the extra fittings and elbows and Tee's it may cost a lot more.

I have a buddy that doesn't eat fish either. He is growing ornamental koi. He believes he will be able to raise them and sell them, maybe you can do something similar to offset food costs of fish since you won't be reaping the rewards of the meat. Part of aquaponics is using everything you grow right.

greenhouse is up to you and your goals. It's always something you can add later.

As for hooking up extra grow beds, i do not see the benefit of messing with the media... your system will be cycled.. the new beds can get the new media and the bacteria will populate the new bed faster than you could ever need it.


I am pretty sure i have seen pictures of people growing potatoes in aquaponics grow beds. I am sure it's possible.. personally, i have not had good luck with anything subgravel such as onions or garlic.

I don't doubt goldfish would eat a minnow if they could but that's a big goldfish.. i find that fish usually will not try to eat something that cannot fit in their mouth. You may find goldfish flakes at your pet store too expensive. Just get an 50lb bag of an omnivore fish food at a feed store near you. 50 lb bags should cost under $1 a lb... usually 35-40ish here in dallas...

your results may vary,

brian

Thank you for taking time to respond.

An intermediate bulk container? Would I need to cut it open? Appearance of the fish tank is low priority as it will be buried flush with the ground or with only a short rim exposed.

As far as messing with gravel grow media, my reasoning was that it would boost the bacterial colony in the new bed to transplant colonized gravel from existing beds. Would enough bacteria be in the air/water to start the colony early enough to help the new grow bed filter amonia into plant food without waiting up to a month and a half?

Reading random hydroponic and aquaponic articles, it sounds like most root veggies such as carrots, onions, and so on need a grow bed. Leafy stuff like lettuce, arugula, herbs, strawberries and so on would do all right in a system that has constantly cycling water.

I am planning to expand as needs, such as processing more amonia as the goldfish grow, require and funds allow. As long as the bed is clear, having pretty goldfish (thinking comets and shubunkin/calico) to watch is worth a small amount of fish food. If I can raise food for the fish in the system, that is even better. I am also thinking in terms of long term what can I do now, what can I add later, how can I expand, etc.

[bcotton]

Yeah, ibc, just use a reciprocating saw to cut a hole in the top.

Maybe i misread but my understanding was that you were planning to add the new grow beds to your existing system. The water will carry the established bacteria from the old grow beds to the new ones.

Brian

[Moondancer]

Yeah, ibc, just use a reciprocating saw to cut a hole in the top.

Maybe i misread but my understanding was that you were planning to add the new grow beds to your existing system. The water will carry the established bacteria from the old grow beds to the new ones.

Brian

No system yet. Excited about spring when I will start my first one. Just planning at the moment, got all kinds of questions. Knowing that soil nitrogen cycle bacteria will happily float through the system to colonize new beds as more are added is exactly the kind of information I was wondering about. I can get a 100 gallon stock tank locally for $70 plus tax. Do you think I can get at least that size ibc tanks or larger for that amount with shipping added?

Planning to start in spring with one ebb and flow grow bed, maybe some pipes with holes for constant flow and some cattails and duckweed in the fish tank. Fishless cycling starting at the beginning of March to (hopefully) start planting and adding goldfish in mid-April. As the goldfish get bigger, I can add more grow beds or pipes for more plants, probably next spring along with a 50 gallon rain barrel to store non-tap water for topping off the system, as needed. Pipes filled with growing medium and constant flow could be run low, but high enough to drain into the fish tank for herbs, salad greens, and strawberries and high up for vines to cascade down, unless they would do better in an ebb and flow grow bed with trellis to grow up.

I would like to save ebb and flow grow beds for plants that don't do as well in constant flow. That is why I'm thinking of doing both an ebb and flow grow bed and constant flow pipes. I am also thinking I can grow vertically by using pipes, needing less square feet to grow the same amount.

From what I have read, most plants can be grown in hydroponics/aquaponics systems. Roots tend to need grow beds or they grow in weird shapes. Lettuce does fine in floating grow mats. There is always the option of growing a few plants of a given variety in both ebb and flow and constant flow to see if it does the same or if it does better in one vs. the other.

[bcotton]

Moondancer,

using vertical space is a good way to maximize yield per sq foot. You are going to be able to plant your grow bed plants closer together than soil plants because the readily available nutrients.

When you talk about vertical pipes it sounds like you are talking about strawberry towers and a NFT. This should work and i have heard of people having success with this method but you are going to have some challenges.

solids:
nft typically uses slower flow and smaller gauge pipe. you may struggle with solids clogging your nft.
solids will accumulate on your plant roots and could suffocate the plants.

You may be able to circumvent this problem by putting the grow beds between the fish tank and the tower but this may require design changes.

Also keep in mind that aquaponics is a high nitrate environment. If you are going to grow a lot of flowing/fruiting high phosphorous requiring plants you may need to add supplements to your system


fwiw, ebb and flow / flood and drain are my preferred plant pots. I dont worry much about flood and drain. I havent finished tweaking my flow rate and bell siphons so my system has been running four weeks with broken siphons... i manually drain the beds twice a day, but i dont believe that is necessary. The grow beds are full pretty much 24/7... the main concern here is that you have enough dissolved oxygen in the water... Obviously it is getting chilly here in dallas and i wont be so casual about my flood and drain during the summer months because hot water has a lower DO capacity than cold water. Just things to keep in mind.

brian


brian

[Moondancer]

Solids: I was thinking about filling the 2" to 4" diameter grow pipe with the same pea gravel growing medium (or sand) as the grow bed. You think I should just have the water flow through the pipe without any grow medium? And that I should use what size? 1" diameter?

Since I want to be able to expand and add additional grow beds, I was leaning toward having all the beds drain into a 4" diameter solid drain pipe. I think it would be easy to add a sump tank (whatever they are officially called) and second pump that would avoid the solids issue.

I am aware that some plants will need extra suppliments, although I'd have to read to know whether strawberries and bell peppers need potassium or phosphorus.

Some bell siphon info sites talk about how to drain water back into the tank to aerate the fish tank. I was just thinking a return pipe. Is this too simple?

Again, thank you so much for your time and knowledge.

[bcotton]

It sounds like you are thinking more of a constant flow with media than nft on the towers. NFT is nutrient film technique and you would be running the nutrient water over the roots with no media. You may be able to make this work with media. Your obstacles will be weight and still solids. Sand and pea gravel will be too small. The solids will build up on the top and eventually cause clogging. Large media like 1Inch should allow the solids to pass through you will just want to make sure they dont accumulate at the bottom of the tower and make a anaerobic area. Like i said before. i have heard of people having success with this. Maybe someone with direct experience will chime in on strawberry towers.

My personal preference is to design the system in a way that it will run off of one pump. This is more efficient power consumption and theoretically more frequent pump failures (all pumps fail eventually). if you cant get around two pumps you need to design it in a way that it doesnt empty your fish tank if a pump failure happens or a pump failure will be catastrophic.

If your bell siphon works it will naturally produce a lot of aeration. I am not sure you need to specifically consider that. bell siphons are hard enough to tweak as it is.

np,

brian






brian

[Deadeye]

im new to this but i do find the bell syphon i use works great..

[Moondancer]

It sounds like you are thinking more of a constant flow with media than nft on the towers. NFT is nutrient film technique and you would be running the nutrient water over the roots with no media. You may be able to make this work with media. Your obstacles will be weight and still solids. Sand and pea gravel will be too small. The solids will build up on the top and eventually cause clogging. Large media like 1Inch should allow the solids to pass through you will just want to make sure they don't accumulate at the bottom of the tower and make a anaerobic area. Like i said before. i have heard of people having success with this. Maybe someone with direct experience will chime in on strawberry towers.

My personal preference is to design the system in a way that it will run off of one pump. This is more efficient power consumption and theoretically more frequent pump failures (all pumps fail eventually). if you can't get around two pumps you need to design it in a way that it doesn't empty your fish tank if a pump failure happens or a pump failure will be catastrophic.

If your bell siphon works it will naturally produce a lot of aeration. I am not sure you need to specifically consider that. bell siphons are hard enough to tweak as it is.

np,

brian

brian

I was thinking more along the lines of several horizontal pipes, but I like the idea of a vertical system like the strawberry tower. Since strawberry jar pots can be used for strawberries or herbs, it seems that it would work just fine for a bunch of herbs as well as strawberries. One used plastic drinking bottles, I'm sure I can adapt it to soda bottles (bit bigger). Deep enough to grow just about any plant I want, unless it needs more root space than the bottle has.

I was planning to have the pump in the fish tank. Not sure how I would filter the water before the strawberry tower without a second pump. Unless something like having the pump under a net pot, inside a second container filled with filter media?