Help, I caught the aquaponics bug...

[Lordshandyman]

Started out in the A PLACE TO SAY HELLO portal, subject: Hello from Naples Florida and now need to move to the Backyard Systems.

Here is my second design, since a friend gave me an IBC so I redid my first design that I posted in the previous thread. Any advice is appreciated.
I already have the 3 10x10 EPDM liners bought on clearance. Will need to buy the 3/4 plywood and 2x4 and 2x6 framing material.

I went ahead and posted the framing design as well, but I need to make in more clear... perhaps I can post a better one in the next day or two. *** updated design already *** My goal is to make the beds and sump tank strong enough, without too much overkill.

Previously I mentioned that my location for the system is on the east side of my house, on a concrete strip that is @4x50. It holds my well system, water softener, and ac unit. This creates a little challenge, as I must work around these things.

After completing the system, I will use screen that roll up and down like a greenhouse to cut down on the bug eating my plants.

Check out my Google Sketchup model here: Lordshandyman Aquaponics System v2 (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=d3756516e1c26ca826fef6ef82f11b47)

Check out the model here: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=d3756516e1c26ca826fef6ef82f11b47mid=9a b7fd18e462209926fef6ef82f11b47
4679

Here is a little clearer design. The sump tank and other growbed sizes will be framed the same way, just with different length boards.
4680

Here is the cut layout for the EPDM and plywood. The EPDM will be folded in the corners. Will be using a 2x4 frame around the plywood boxes.
4681

Second design ver 2.1
4682

[Bioritize]

Hey Shadyman,

I think your tank design looks good.

Now on your plumbing. The problem I have been thinking about is pumping chopped up fish poop back into my fish tanks from the sump tank. I don't really like that idea, as I have heard that after a while your water quality may suffer, like a year or two down the road.

So due to this info, I am re-plumbing my system to have the overflow of the fish tanks go to the grow beds and then the grow beds will drain to the sump tank. This way the grow beds will catch all the poop.

Oh, the bug is fun to play with and it feeds you!!

[bsfman]

Now on your plumbing. The problem I have been thinking about is pumping chopped up fish poop back into my fish tanks from the sump tank. I don't really like that idea, as I have heard that after a while your water quality may suffer, like a year or two down the road.

So due to this info, I am re-plumbing my system to have the overflow of the fish tanks go to the grow beds and then the grow beds will drain to the sump tank. This way the grow beds will catch all the poop.


Good point, Bioritize, but I believe he is planning on pumping direct into three growbeds AND the fishtank from the sump through a valve array. Though 25% will get pumped sump to FT, then gravity flow back to sump, 75% will go to growbeds back to sump, so essentially what you are recommending will get accomplished, it'll just take 25% longer for all the system water to recirculate through growbeds as he has it planned as opposed to the suggestion you propose by filling the GB's from gravity from the FT. The growbeds will eventually get all the poop and detrius regardless. :)

I had the pleasure of meeting Lordshandyman today - along with his lovely wife - and enjoyed the opportunity to show them my AP systems. I was most impressed with the planning he has put into his startup system design! He has covered most of the bases with his planning (which makes me envious given my "by guess and by golly" approach!) He asked intelligent questions and sure seems to have a clear idea what he wants to accomplish with his first system. I look forward to seeing it progress through photos and perhaps visits to his home!

[JCO]

There are many way to set up an AP system however the ideal AP system is ideally pumped from the fish tank to a sump for settelment of the particulates (poo/uneaten food) then to a bio-filter for nitrification (bacterial action) then to the grow beds and then back to the fish tank.

The sump can be replaced with the bio-filter providing you clean it regularily and have low density of fish in the tank. Pumping your particlulates to the grow beds will eventually clog the media and it will have to be removed and washed again usually in about one year if you have a high density of fish in your tank. :mrgreen:

[Lordshandyman]

Now on your plumbing. The problem I have been thinking about is pumping chopped up fish poop back into my fish tanks from the sump tank. I don't really like that idea, as I have heard that after a while your water quality may suffer, like a year or two down the road.

So due to this info, I am re-plumbing my system to have the overflow of the fish tanks go to the grow beds and then the grow beds will drain to the sump tank. This way the grow beds will catch all the poop.

Good point, Bioritize, but I believe he is planning on pumping direct into three growbeds AND the fishtank from the sump through a valve array. Though 25% will get pumped sump to FT, then gravity flow back to sump, 75% will go to growbeds back to sump, so essentially what you are recommending will get accomplished, it'll just take 25% longer for all the system water to recirculate through growbeds as he has it planned as opposed to the suggestion you propose by filling the GB's from gravity from the FT. The growbeds will eventually get all the poop and detrius regardless. :)

I had the pleasure of meeting Lordshandyman today - along with his lovely wife - and enjoyed the opportunity to show them my AP systems. I was most impressed with the planning he has put into his startup system design! He has covered most of the bases with his planning (which makes me envious given my "by guess and by golly" approach!) He asked intelligent questions and sure seems to have a clear idea what he wants to accomplish with his first system. I look forward to seeing it progress through photos and perhaps visits to his home!


There are many way to set up an AP system however the ideal AP system is ideally pumped from the fish tank to a sump for settelment of the particulates (poo/uneaten food) then to a bio-filter for nitrification (bacterial action) then to the grow beds and then back to the fish tank.

The sump can be replaced with the bio-filter providing you clean it regularily and have low density of fish in the tank. Pumping your particlulates to the grow beds will eventually clog the media and it will have to be removed and washed again usually in about one year if you have a high density of fish in your tank.
Everyone,
Thank you for you valued input. I really love this forum... It is the only forum I have ever felt compelled to join.
As for my plumbing, I was planning on having my FT gravity flow to my GB's using a overflow pipe that reaches the bottom of the tank, but with a vent on top using a tee, that way the water would gravity flow from the bottom of the tank, but would be vented at the top to stop any siphon suction. The height of the tee would set the water level of the FT. The GB's would then drain into my ST using bell siphons. I would pump from my ST into my FT. The FT would have an overflow into the ST a little higher than the GB feed pipe tee system to handle any fluctuation in flow rates. I will try and post some plumbing diagrams later this week. I will consider you input bsfman on the way you thought I was plumbing my system. Your way is really thought provoking.

My reasoning for my current design: I thought the goal was to provide the GB's with the fish poop and that the GB's are your biological filter. I realize that sooner or later the GB's would need emptied and cleaned, but with all the leftover plant roots wouldn't you do this anyway. Besides, the bio filters need cleaning as well, although they would be much easier to clean. But, wouldn't the plants do even better when their roots have access to the fish poop directly? I am planning on having high density fish population as fish is the main reason I am doing aquaponics. I also plan on using the bottom drain of the IBC FT to periodically flush out all the sediment on the bottom of the FT. I figure when I open the valve, I can use a "broom" and gently sweep the bottom towards the drain as it drains (of course have a small screen over the drain valve opening). This poopy water I will use on my other plants that are downhill from the AP system. Even if I pumped "clean" water to my GB's from the ST, I would most likely clean my GB's yearly anyway (in stages of course). I am a tad bit perfectionist and messy GB's would drive me crazy.

bsfman,
The pleasure was all ours. We really enjoyed your company and seeing your AP systems as well as your plant collections. Perhaps next time, we can meet your wife as well. I look forward to getting started on this system, hopefully this week I can start the construction stage. Per your reminder, I will take lots of photos and post them as I go. We look forward to your visit and we hope that we can provide you with as much hospitality that you did for us. By the way, those AP tomatoes were extremely flavorful and delicious. My uncle will be so jealous of our tomatoes when I get my system finished and operational. He always complains that Florida tomatoes are bland and flavorless... something to do with the soil lacking something. When I moved down here, I teased him that I would sell him some Missouri dirt to grow his tomatoes in.

Oh, I was interested in you soldier fly operation, but I am pretty sure my wife would not let me have the smelly bins. I am interested in growing worms though, and if you could expand what you were telling me about growing the worms in my ebb and flow GB's, I would be grateful.

If anyone has info on AP and worms, please enlighten me. Thanks again for everyone's input.

[davidstcldfl]

I had my FT gravity drain into my media beds....I added red wigglers and they loved the fish pooh. The only thing they liked better, was when I buried banana peels in the media :D ...and the plants liked the banana peels too.

Something else that can help to keep a sysytem clean is 'scuds'.
The bio filters where I work, are full of scuds. I was amazed when I cleaned one that had been up and running for about 2 years...it was full of the little buggers and the filter was actually pretty clean.
The bio filters are on the raft systems..... when we lift up a raft, we normally see them on the roots and the bottom of the raft.

[bsfman]

The bio filters where I work, are full of scuds. I was amazed when I cleaned one that had been up and running for about 2 years...it was full of the little buggers and the filter was actually pretty clean.
The bio filters are on the raft systems..... when we lift up a raft, we normally see them on the roots and the bottom of the raft.

David, how does one innoculate scuds into one's system? Do they show up on their own or do you need a "scud starter culture" to get them going?

[JCO]

I'm only going to reply to this one item as I've already explained the ideal setup for an AP system.


Besides, the bio filters need cleaning as well, although they would be much easier to clean. But, wouldn't the plants do even better when their roots have access to the fish poop directly?

The bio-filters don't need to be cleaned at all if they are set up properly. Also, plants don't use the fish poo. It has to be broken down by nitrification (to nitrites to nitrates) creating a nutrient rich water from which the plants draw what they need to grow. :geek:

As for breaking down a grow bed to clean out the poo that you've pumped in, I don't know how big of a grow bed you are planning, but mine is 4' wide X 16' long X 12" deep and when filled to 10" deep with river gravel, you would be talking about multiple days to remove, wash and store the gravel before cleaning out the bed itself, then replacing it into the grow bed and starting a brand new system as most if not all of your bacteria would be gone by then. So it's time to cycle it again, mean time the fish suffer from ammonia and nitrites in their water. Could cost you your fish :!: :shock: :o

As I said in my original post, there are many ways to set up an AP system, however there is only one correct way and I can attest to it for I had been doing Aquaponics for more than 15 years before I started this web site in 2007,. Please don't think me rude or a smart-ass as that is not my purpose. It's your show, do as you like. :mrgreen:

[davidstcldfl]

bsfman....the scuds showed up on their own. When we start new systems, we do take a few and put them in that system.

Wow JCO, I didn't know your media bed was that big.... :shock: ...that would be a pain to clean like you said.

[keith_r]

i bought some scuds to get started in my system
there's a guy on aquabid that sells a couple hundred, and usually throws in a few freshwater shrimp or a marmokreb with the order..

[Lordshandyman]

There are many way to set up an AP system however the ideal AP system is ideally pumped from the fish tank to a sump for settelment of the particulates (poo/uneaten food) then to a bio-filter for nitrification (bacterial action) then to the grow beds and then back to the fish tank.

The sump can be replaced with the bio-filter providing you clean it regularily and have low density of fish in the tank. Pumping your particlulates to the grow beds will eventually clog the media and it will have to be removed and washed again usually in about one year if you have a high density of fish in your tank. :mrgreen:
JCO,
Thank you for you input. If I went with the ideal AP system and tried to use only one pump, it would appear that in order to have growbeds at a convenient level, my fishtank would have to be really low, and my sump tank would have to be really high, and my bio filter fairly high.

My current location does not allow for me to bury my FT. So the top of my FT will be 4 feet min. That means the top of my grow beds need to be @6 feet. Then, the bio filter's bottom has to be at least @6.5 - 7 feet, and the sump tank higher than the biofilter top. My eves of my house are around 8.5 feet. I suppose the ideal AP system uses multiple pumps to achieve a decent height for the system. I prefer to use only one pump for this small system. When I build the larger system, perhaps I can incorporate your ideal AP system design then.

My current system will have 3 separate GB's. I plan on cleaning them in stages perhaps even 3-4 months apart, not all at once... so no need to recycle the system. Also, I am trying to work in the space that I have, so please keep in mind that I am trying to achieve as much success as I possibly can in such a small space that I have allotted. I realize that it requires a little sacrifice (and extra work) and it will not be a 100% perfect AP system.

As I said in my original post, there are many ways to set up an AP system, however there is only one correct way and I can attest to it for I had been doing Aquaponics for more than 15 years before I started this web site in 2007,. Please don't think me rude or a smart-ass as that is not my purpose. It's your show, do as you like.
All I can say to this is: I am extremely grateful that you did set up this web site. It has been a most valuable tool for me.

[Lordshandyman]

Quick question,
I am going shopping today and was wonder if 1/2" pvc pipe is big enough for the overflow pipe from FT to GB's. I have a lot of 1/2 around the house, but if it needs to be bigger, then I will need to buy it.

I plan on making my Bell siphon drain pipes to my ST at least 1" or more.

[bsfman]

Quick question,
I am going shopping today and was wonder if 1/2" pvc pipe is big enough for the overflow pipe from FT to GB's. I have a lot of 1/2 around the house, but if it needs to be bigger, then I will need to buy it.

I plan on making my Bell siphon drain pipes to my ST at least 1" or more.

Your overflow needs to be bigger! I'd use 1 1/2" or 2". Going 1/2", your drainage won't keep up with your fill rate.

For the size growbeds you are planning, I would think 1" would be minimum size for your standpipe. I might even go to 1 1/2".

[Lordshandyman]

I had my FT gravity drain into my media beds....I added red wigglers and they loved the fish pooh. The only thing they liked better, was when I buried banana peels in the media :D ...and the plants liked the banana peels too.

Something else that can help to keep a sysytem clean is 'scuds'.
The bio filters where I work, are full of scuds. I was amazed when I cleaned one that had been up and running for about 2 years...it was full of the little buggers and the filter was actually pretty clean.
The bio filters are on the raft systems..... when we lift up a raft, we normally see them on the roots and the bottom of the raft.
Do the worms mind if it's a gravel GB (maybe quarry gravel)? What are scuds? What kind of biofilter was it?

[Lordshandyman]

Quick question,
I am going shopping today and was wonder if 1/2" pvc pipe is big enough for the overflow pipe from FT to GB's. I have a lot of 1/2 around the house, but if it needs to be bigger, then I will need to buy it.

I plan on making my Bell siphon drain pipes to my ST at least 1" or more.

Your overflow needs to be bigger! I'd use 1 1/2" or 2". Going 1/2", your drainage won't keep up with your fill rate.

For the size growbeds you are planning, I would think 1" would be minimum size for your standpipe. I might even go to 1 1/2".
Thanks bfsman,
I will plan on 2" for my overflow then, and 1 1/2" for GB drains.

[Lordshandyman]

Well, I just about got the FT IBC cleaned out... Managed to pick up some concrete blocks yesterday, and just waiting for the gift card for Lowe's to arrive so we can go get the rest of the supplies (plastic jungle sells them for around 7% off)... It looks like we will have around $1500 into the system by the time we have plants growing and fish on the table. Small price to pay when we have a baby on the way.

[Lordshandyman]

Check out my Google Sketchup model here: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=9ab7fd18e462209926fef6ef82f11b47&prevstart=0


Let me know if anyone foresees a problem with my design. I have got the plywood for GB #2 and GB #3 done, just getting ready to head out side and see what else I can do. Will try to upload pics later.

[bsfman]

Check out my Google Sketchup model here: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=9ab7fd18e462209926fef6ef82f11b47&prevstart=0


Let me know if anyone foresees a problem with my design. I have got the plywood for GB #2 and GB #3 done, just getting ready to head out side and see what else I can do. Will try to upload pics later.

Nice sketch! Looks great!

I think you overestimated the capacity in gallons of your 1X3X5 GB's. 1X3X5=15 cu ft X 7.48 gal/cu ft = 112 gallons. Given this size, you can get by with 1" standpipes rather than the larger ones I previously suggested.

How big a pump are you planning to use?

[Lordshandyman]

Nice sketch! Looks great!

I think you overestimated the capacity in gallons of your 1X3X5 GB's. 1X3X5=15 cu ft X 7.48 gal/cu ft = 112 gallons. Given this size, you can get by with 1" standpipes rather than the larger ones I previously suggested.

How big a pump are you planning to use?

Good catch, I had a typo on the size of the 2 grow beds, they are in fact 8 ft... not 5 ft... I have the model updated now. Here is a new link: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=d3756516e1c26ca826fef6ef82f11b47

I bought a Smartpond 2000-GPH Waterfall Pump
Item #: 81350 | Model #: WPR2000
http://www.lowes.com/pd_81350-48650-WPR2000_0__?productId=3345482&Ntt=waterfall+pump&Ns=p_product_price|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dwaterfall%2Bpump%26 Ns%3Dp_product_price%7C1&facetInfo=

[Lance_Green]

What is a scud? Do we have them in the North?

[JCO]

A Scud is an extremely tiny shrimp like creature the males of which are barely an 1/8th inch long. As for whether you have them up North or not I couldn't say. Perhaps keith_r could tell you since he's up in that direction. They are great in a filtration system for breaking down the particulates etc and the fish love them when they can get to them. They also produce fry or baby shrimp by the millions during the spring and summer which helps to feed (fish) fry in outdoor ponds or pools. Too bad they don't get big enough to eat, I'd never go hungry for something to eat :shock: :o

Below is baby Scuds in the making. 8-) Photo courtesy of Stucco :mrgreen:

http://diyaquaponics.com/MyImages/Scuds.jpg

[bsfman]

Below is baby Scuds in the making. 8-) Photo courtesy of Stucco :mrgreen:

http://diyaquaponics.com/MyImages/Scuds.jpg

Scud porn! :shock:

[Lance_Green]

Thanks for the info and scud porn :D .

[keith_r]

species of scuds are found all over the world.. i think the largest freshwater scud is around 1/2"
i've got a smaller species in all my "systems".. biggest i've seen has been about the size of a grain of rice.. good fish food and they assist with breakdown of solids